The Traditions are not idealistic guidelines but are ‘scar tissue’—reactive corrections to specific failures of the past. — Bob H.

Well, I'm Bob. I'm an alcoholic. And Brenda, thank you. That was fantastic. I just love the history of Alcoholics Anonymous. And when you were talking, it brought to mind over there, how many people here have watched the video of Bill speaking on the Twelve Traditions? How many didn't know there was one? You're cheating yourself. You need to watch that. It's Bill speaking on the Twelve Traditions, and it's got a couple of neat things in there to watch for. And dynamics of that meeting are quite interesting. It's Bill sitting at this long table, and they're all smoking, number one. I mean, I think all of them are. And a large majority of women, I think he drafted them out of the office and made them sit in there to listen to it. But his talk on the Twelve Traditions, was just fantastic. The first time, I didn't know it was on video. I heard an audio tape of it. And it was Bill speaking on the Twelve Traditions. And in particular, you know, you think we have some hard decisions to make now and again in our group or in the aid that we're doing. And this is where Bill talked about the piece that they wanted to do in Time Life Magazine on him. And they wanted to do, he was going to be the cover story. And he was going to be turned either all the way around or partway around. And then they were going to do the story. And they were going to do the story on him in Time Life Magazine. And Bill had to ponder that for quite some time. And in the talk that he was giving on it, he said that he spent many, many sleepless nights trying to decide what to do with that. Because he knew that if he did this, thousands of members, thousands of alcoholics were going to come into AA and get help right away. But then he also was looking at it, and this is the vision I believe that only a power greater than ourselves could give to somebody like that. Because Bill was a power monger, egomaniac, just like me. And here he is with this opportunity to be in Time Life Magazine. Now, boy, wouldn't your ego just have problems with that one. I mean, you bet. Can't we do it face on? But he had to choose no. And he chose no for the simple reason, and this is when, I believe when the saying was coined, that oftentimes the good is the enemy of the best. And he knew that thousands would come in, but he knew that we were dealing with millions yet to come. And we read a little bit about that. And he said, well, I'm going to do this. And I thought about that earlier, about that baby who's still not born out there, and all the people that are coming to us. And we've got so many people. We're not running out of alcoholics, by the way, so don't worry about your turn to deal with them. But here he is. He spent many countless nights, sleepless nights over that, even after he made the decision. And can you imagine making decisions like that, and where you'd have to be based spiritually to be able to make a decision like that, and especially when it's playing on your ego to be in Time Magazine. And that's the kind of stuff that's on that video. I mean, great stuff. How many didn't know that there was a video you can watch, and it's actually Bill and Lois talking together, and they're in the kitchen, drinking out of the coffee pot at Stepping Stones, and it's him telling his story? How many didn't know that was available? It's available. You can order it from the General Service Office. There's probably available in your area through your library. I know it is at ours. Our literature person takes care of that. And those are available to read. And sometimes at different places, intergroups or whatever they may be available to just rent. It's absolutely fantastic. I guarantee you, you will not regret seeing those. And they'll give you a real bite out of our history. You get to see Bill talking about this, and you get to see Lois, and you get to see these other people. It's fantastic. Well, now that I've sold some of those... We're talking about trusted servants. And I had the privilege a few years back, in fact, 1993 in St. Cloud, Minnesota, at the Regional Service Conference, to talk about trusted servants. And the main thing is, when we talk about trusted servants, we're talking about the trusted servant. Now, a lot of times I thought about it as, this is somebody that we have to trust, and that's what it's all about. But there's another side to that. And the servant who is doing the job has to feel trusted. And the servant who is doing the job has to feel trusted. And the servant who is doing the job has to feel trusted. And the servant who is doing the job has to feel trusted. And the servant who is doing the job has to feel trusted. And be trustworthy and make sure that we do those things. And now you guys here in this area, does your area chair choose your standing committee chairs? Okay, now that's a thing of trust. You trust your area chair to pick the right people, people that they've looked over. Normally, they get information from other people, the standing committee chairs that just served, and they do that. And so you end up with trusted servants. And so you end up with trusted servants. If you don't trust their choices, you've picked the wrong person. It's your own fault, straight out. And so much of the time, what we do is we end up asking people to serve us, and then we don't trust them. We just will not trust them. And whose fault is that? Because we haven't been active enough to make sure that we get trusted servants, or picking the right ones. But if we're gonna pick one, then we should trust them. But there's also a different part there. And Brenda was talking about it a little bit here just a minute ago. The thing in this pamphlet, or in this packet that we got, you've all seen this. This triangle here, the AA group. You see where the AA groups are? Right up on top. That's the top of the heap. Everything in AA is directed by the groups. Everybody else serves as trusted and willing servants all the way down through. So if we're the ones who are doing the direction, we probably should know what the directions are. And that's our responsibility in the groups. We have to be responsible to make sure that we're doing our job, that we're doing what we need to be doing. That we're informing everybody enough so that they can be good, trusted servants. Probably an area where the AA groups have fallen down worse than any place, in my opinion. And I won't preach on this, but it's just been my observation, where we have fallen down miserably in the last several years is in our response to the people coming out of treatment centers and court systems. We have failed miserably in sponsorship to these people. We have watched them complete. We've seen them through the doors of Alcoholics Anonymous and just come in and sit down, and we expect them to get it. 30 days ago, they didn't even know what had them. All of a sudden, they've got a name that is their problem. And they're thrilled to death to have something to put their finger on and say, this is my problem. And we have kind of failed in that. And so as groups, and this is what groups can get. Yes? That triangle that you just showed us? Yes, sir. Is that really a practical view of AA, or is that a ? What would be in a perfect world? I would hope it could exist in both worlds. In a perfect world, yes, it would just exist handsomely. But sometimes we get it a little out of whack. And sometimes, like when I was a district committee member, I kind of slid myself back up on top for a while until they jerked my chain and slid me back down the chain where I needed to be. And that's what it's all about in our areas assemblies. And that's where it's important for our communities, our trusted servants, especially this weekend we were talking about the GSR, but trusted servants in general. It's so important that they're informed and that they're charged, that we pick the people that are best to do that. People that we can trust. And when we get into this trust issue on the trusted servants, we need to trust the people that we choose. And I think I made a note on this back in here because when I was reading through it, I says, pick them, but don't be stupid. You know, because sometimes in AA we have a tendency to do that. We just think everybody's, we're all in this and we're doing so well. Everybody will do good and nobody will ever do bad. They'll never steal the treasury. They'll never take that. I don't know about you guys, but our group really screwed up there. Little gal took all of our money and got hammered. We went out looking for her, found her, drug her back. We're all bawling and hugging her and how much we trust her and to show her how much, we let her be treasurer again. As soon as there was enough money gathered up, she's gone. We're all looking for her. Found her, drug her back. We're all bawling and hugging her and how much we trust her and to show her how much, we let her be treasurer again. As soon as there was enough money gathered up, she's gone, drunk. So we picked another one and she misappropriated about $185 out of it and then we thought maybe we ought to have two signatures on the check. But when you pick somebody, a trusted servant, and if you are a trusted servant, I don't have anybody have any problem with somebody coming up and asking me what I'm doing and what I did and where do these expenses come from. That's natural questions. I should be willing to answer those. The only time I get a question, I'm going to be willing to answer those. The only time I get a question, I'm going to be willing to answer those. The only time I get a question, I'm going to be willing to answer those. The only time I should not be willing to answer those is when I'm trying to hide something. And that's a two-way street, you know, kind of hoping that the people will ask, where is this coming from, why is this that way. And there should be a free and open two-way street to asking these questions. It shouldn't be where you walk up and ask and somebody just makes you feel like you wish you hadn't got up that day. It should be an open thing, this trust. It really needs to be an open trust issue and I'm finding that, you know, it's that way in a lot of places but in some places it's not. And actually I think we cause a lot of our own misery by the way we just lay back and let things happen. We in AA. I'm responsible, I've been responsible, I try to be more responsible now to making sure that when we have elections that we find out who's standing and what they're doing and where they came from and right now you people have a rotation coming in right now. So now is the time to start looking at the next one. Watch who's doing what. Watch who's doing what in your area. Watch who stands up and serves for two years. Who actually shows up for two years. In Alcoholics Anonymous, volunteers are a dime a dozen. People who actually show up are tough to find. Because you know how that is. Boy, we need volunteers to do this and hands shoot up all over and then on the day you show up to do it, there's you and maybe one other person that got the wrong address. And it's, and that's kind of how it goes but it's trying to help get the right people in there and making sure we watch who does what. It's not, it's not wrong. It's not wrong to ask people in your group or in your district, well what do you think of so and so? What, have you seen anything, you know, or whatever? It's, we're not taking their inventory as such but we sure want to know if they've got what we want. You know, that's the first place they directed us to ask that stuff. Right there in How It Works. If you've got, if you've got what I want, you know, I'm going to ask you how you did it and then we're going to have to do, I'm going to have to do what you did to get it. But we, we do ask that. And that's really important to us in our groups, in our districts, and in our areas to ask about these things. We've had some elections in our area where people can just nominate from the floor for the standing committee chairs. And all of a sudden there's nobody going up for, I want to speak on archives or grapevine or something, you know, there's just, nobody wanted to take that position. So there's, it's just sitting there silent for a while and all of a sudden somebody nominates somebody because they're a voting member of the assembly. They nominate somebody and nobody knows who it is. But that's the only name up there. So they get it. And a lot of the time what happens is in about six months before our next assembly, they call the delegate or the area chancellor, I can't make it, I can't do that job, I'm going to have to step down. Well, they've been terrified, they, they were so terrified when they got nominated, they couldn't, they didn't know how to say no in front of everybody. So they go home and they sit on it for six months waiting to figure out what to do. And then at the end of the six months, they're like, I'm going to have to step down. And then at the end of the six months, they finally call up and say, I can't do it. Well, the area or the district or whoever has just lost all that time serving AA. And that's just not, that's just not, that's not good on our part to do those things. And I just, I just kind of wanted to touch on that, that part of the trusted servant thing. For me, being absolutely trusted to do what I'm supposed to do and go there and do it. As a delegate, I was asked, I was on the literature committee too. And we had a couple of doozies. We had the history book and that was a whole thing all by itself. But we also had the anonymity statement. At that time, everybody in AA was using Al-Anon's. And so we were discussing what kind of an anonymity statement could we come up with. And our area, a bunch of the people in our area, our area committee said, well, just go there and ask them if we can't just use Al-Anon's. And I said, well, I'll go ask. I mean, I wasn't thrilled about it. But they said, go ask. And so in the committee, I asked. I says, our area suggested that maybe we just use Al-Anon's. And they had already done it. It was in the combined meeting of the trustees committee and the conference committee. And they said, we've already asked Al-Anon. They said, yes, we can use it. And I went, holy cow. But we have to put down at the bottom of it, with permission of Al-Anon. And so I'm sitting there digesting this for a little bit. And nobody's saying anything. So we're thinking, well, this is over with. We can move on. It hit me right there that if we put that on our tables or on our walls, and it says this nice statement, with permission of Al-Anon, I felt almost like God was talking to me at that moment. Because he said, pretty soon we're going to have with permission of the Latter-day Saints, with permission of, with permission of, with permission of, all over our rooms. And we were having a real hard time at that time getting people to just keep conference-approved AA literature in an area. And we were having a real hard time getting people to just keep conference-approved AA literature in an AA meeting. And so I had to suggest it to the committee that this might be the wrong way to go, using Bill's words, this piece of good may be the enemy of the best. And boy, it just got blown out of the water, just like that. And then I had to go home after the conference. And I went back and I told the area just exactly how it went down and what I did. And you know what the area did? They said that was great, because none of us thought of it back at the area. And we did there with more information. And that's the trust that they put in me. But I also, I came back and reported on exactly how I voted on every single issue and why I chose that way. And that to me is what a trusted servant is. They also trust me to stay up current and up to date on what's going on. And you know, and it's like, well, at the time I was delegate, we didn't even get the background information, except for your committee, period. You didn't, the only way you got information from any other committee is if you asked the committee chair and they decided they wanted to give it to you. That's the only way you got the other information. So you just dealt with yours. But they expected me to deal with everything I could with the information I had. Since that time, the information flow in AA and the areas is fantastic, because the information that's sent back, and then everybody gets involved. But to me, being a trusted servant is absolutely to me, I would rather fall on the sword and do something against AA. And when they charge me to do something, I do it to the absolute best of my ability. And when they show, when they, when I say I'm going to stand up against AA, I'm going to say I'm going to stand up against AA. You see, there's a difference. And I'm not just a person who's going to stand up against AA. And I'm not just a person who's going to stand up against AA. going to show up, I show up. That's one of the things I have to do. I wish I could say that I did that all the way through since I got into service. I had the opportunity to give my fifth step on AA service one time at a regional service conference. And I got up and got to tell them everything I did wrong. That was quite a long talk. And I didn't get to, I didn't do everything I could have done for my group. I was learning. But in the district, when I was the district committee member, I didn't get to all of the groups all of the time. I didn't get around to all of them. And basically, I would like to say there was some great reason for it, but I just didn't do it. And it was not right. And if anybody would have really been paying attention, they shouldn't have ever had me be the public information and cooperation with the professional community chair. However, I did that one. I really, really got into that. And I really liked that one. And from there on, my service, it picked up. Maybe it was the guilt out of the DCM that helped me. But for me, don't ever worry about that you're not doing it perfect. Because if you were doing it perfect, we'd have to fire you. And that's what the rotation's all about. But being trusted, I have to trust them. The group has to trust you. And we have to trust the group, too. And there we come upon this. And we get into the 12th concept. And it's so huge. I can only touch on a few things in here. But in the, well, this is just one. And this basically runs down to the, in the 12th concept of Warranty 4. I'm sure you all know that one. That's a good one for any fight. And this is that all important decisions be reached by discussion, vote, and whenever possible by substantial unanimity. And that's extremely important. And we usually try to decide beforehand what substantial unanimity is going to be. Oftentimes in AA it's two-thirds. Sometimes it's three-fourths. But for us, when we reach substantial unanimity through discussion, and we've gone all the lengths that we can, and then it's finally done, and it's in our home group, and then the group decides, unwisely, to have a different idea than I do. And so here I am. Here I am, they've decided something with an informed group conscience, and it's contrary to what I want or what I wanted. What do I do then? Do I just become the pouting, bleeding deacon over in the corner? Or what do I do? Do I go with the group conscience? I can still bring things back up for discussion. I just have to do it in a manner that's somewhat likable. I heard a thing about, we asked a guy one time, why is it that some people become bleeding deacons? And others become elder statesmen. And he said, we all become bleeding deacons. Some of us just don't get over it. That was pretty good. But for me, being a trusted servant is the absolute. And doing what the group has decided, I have to trust my group too. And making sure that I bring back all the reports and make sure that I bring back all my expenses and turn those over to them. There's a, I'm going to stay out of that one. That might cause dissension. But there's one other thing here. And this is something that we really need to trust. And it's that I trust the structure system the way it was designed. It was absolutely designed to work so well. Once in a while, we AAs have a tendency to be able to find a way to find a niche in there and twist that black stuff in the book and turn it a little bit. We use the white stuff to do that. But we get it kind of turned to fit our purpose. And what I need to do is trust that the way it was developed and how it came about, and I heard there's a statement that Bill wrote. This is paraphrasing. It says that the traditions are not a monument to our great successes. They're more a testament to our colossal failures. And the concepts are the same thing. How did we get those? Because we thought this is a good idea. No, we thought that was a bad idea. Let's put something down on paper so we don't do that again. And that's kind of how these all came about. Today, I'm an alcoholic that I have absolutely 36 principles. I can look up in a book and put my finger on them and read about them. You know how many I had just before I showed up here? One. Do you before you do me. That was it. And now I've got 36 that don't involve that one at all, except to teach me how to help you if I can. And I think that's fantastic. And the triangle that we have, I was also there when we lost the circle and triangle deal. That wasn't too volatile. But the triangle is really strong. And it's recovery, unity, and service. But none of those can stand up without the principles that represent them. So if we're not living up to all those principles, we're weakening one side or the other of that triangle. And me as a trust, as a servant to AA, I have to make sure that I'm living up to all those, that I'm not driving by mandate. And as an alcoholic, sometimes I'm fairly good at kind of manipulating, let's say, to make it sound like I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. And I have to watch that very carefully because I become convinced that what I'm saying is absolutely right. My brain tells me that all my ideas are good. And I have to watch that. What I have to do is truly try to represent this. I talk to my sponsor. I read the literature. And I try to serve to the best of my ability. I try to do that every time. And that's what I expect from the people that serve my home group, the group that allows me to be there, the district, and the area. That's what we expect, and we have every right to ask that of them because this is talking about AA. This isn't about a popularity contest. Every job in AA is far more important than the person in it, and that was hard for me to grasp at first, but it's like our first tradition says, the group come first and individuals come shortly thereafter, but it's the group first. So that job is much more important than worrying about the feelings, and we get into that quite a bit. I do. Am I going to hurt their feelings? And I don't want to do that, but sometimes if their feelings are hurt, sometimes that's not even my fault. That's what they have sponsors for. Go talk to your sponsor about your hurt feelings. We'll get back to the other stuff here in a little while. But in this, here's one that can cause some... This is one that I have to really watch that I stick to this too, and it says the primary purpose of an AA group is to carry the AA message to alcoholics. Experience with alcohol is one thing all AA members have in common. It is misleading to hint or give the impression that AA solves other problems or knows what to do about addiction or to drugs. That one gets to be a fairly volatile issue now and again in AA, around AA. It gets very volatile. We had a riot in the treatment center in Billings one night over that, talking about closed meetings. I mean, it was a flat-out riot. A guy from my home group, the treatment chair and I were sitting there giving an orientation to AA, what AA is and what it is, and what it isn't. And when we got to the closed and open meetings, when we went in there that evening, all these people looked angry, but I thought they had just arrived, you know. And I thought, they're really angry. Well, what they were, they were ready for us. One of them had been there a month before and had walked out and left the treatment center, but they got him back, and when he came back, he was ready to do battle, and he had enlisted everybody else. Well, here we are. We sat down, and we had... And as soon as we said what closed meetings were, this person explained. And the other one exploded. And pretty soon, they're getting up, and they're walking out of the room, and they're getting other people and coming back, and they're screaming and hollering. They're standing... One of them was standing... It used to be they crowded my space. That was always a bad thing to do. But this person was really crowding my space and calling me and my friend names that ended in E-R and started with F and some other things. And we just sat there. Principles of the program. We just sat there. We kept a calm voice. We did... We did not try to out-holler them. And we just stayed there. We were only supposed to be there for an hour. We were there an hour and 20 minutes trying to just talk calmly to some of the people that wanted to ask questions, but these people kept screaming. We asked for the person in charge to come in, and they came in and started trying to out-holler them, and that didn't work. But the result was is that we stayed there. The principles of the person that we trusted to do that job, we stayed there, and we did the job, and we did not cause a problem. I didn't even stand up because sometimes people take that as intimidation. And I didn't want to do anything that led to problems. But we discussed this with the treatment center afterwards. And because we have... Because of this trusted servant thing, we talked with the people who ran the treatment center, and things were settled, and things were changed, and some of ours was changed, and some of theirs was changed. And the result is is that now we have... It's very quiet. It works good. They ask lots of questions, and it works. But that's because there was somebody there that could be trusted and didn't get up and punch somebody out. You know... Yes? Yes. Okay, the question was, if somebody introduces themselves as an addict in a closed AA meeting, or some of the other terminology, like a junkie, an addict, whatever, and how do we handle that? How does the group handle it, or how do I handle it? Me, personally, how I handle that is I don't jump up in the middle of the meeting and start screaming at them. I believe that we were told that we were supposed to be loving... Love and tolerance is our code. And if what we do is we normally... If it's already in the meeting, we don't blow a gasket over it and start screaming at people. What we do, and I do, is after the meeting's over with, I'll go over and talk to the person. And we also... And I know some people may not agree with this, but we keep meeting lists and phone numbers for all of the other organizations, fellowships. We keep N-A and O-A and G-A and all of them that we can find. We call those numbers and make sure they're viable numbers so that these people can get help. And that's very important, because sometimes you get numbers that don't work. But we try to have meeting lists... We don't post them right out in front of everybody. We don't post everything, that we have all this stuff. We have it there. And if somebody happens to come to us for help and they happen to have just got to the... They need to go to a different place, then we show them... We give them the information where they can go. We also have a meeting list there that shows all open meetings, however, we don't try to... mislead them to the understanding that open meetings are the back door in for them. We try to get them the help that they need, because we have in AA killed people before by trying to be everything to them. We try to be everything to everybody. But we don't do it... We do it very lovingly and tolerant. And if they happen to be somebody that wants to stay in that meeting and they are an alcoholic, when you talk to them, we just talk about singleness of purpose. And we... Some people don't think you teach AA. You do. I mean, the people come to us, they have no idea what it's about. And it's up to us to tell them. To expect them to sit on their hind end in that meeting and get it through their hind end, it just doesn't work. We need to explain to them. Sometimes just give them a brief history. Sometimes just give them a brief history. We don't give them a brief history of what AA really is. It's amazing. It just opens eyes up. Our job is to be loving and tolerant and try to guide these people to where they might get the best help for them. Oh, problems other than alcohol. Fantastic. To just get their attention, hand them the little short one, the abbreviated version, but tell them the answers to all those other questions in there are in this one. And you hold that up and it has some great... It has a great definition of what Alcoholics Anonymous is, what our purpose is. What our purpose is. Abstinence from alcohol. And it gives a lot of stuff in there answering questions like who can belong and who can't. And they're done in a very good manner. And there was a great author who wrote them, as a matter of fact, if you read that pamphlet. Has everybody... Who all has read the pamphlet Problems Other Than Alcohol? Please, everybody read it. It's really important to have read that so that when people come to us and they found the wrong place or maybe perhaps they're not sure we can give this to them to help them make up their mind. Because there are a few of us that show up that don't believe we're alcoholics at AA. We'd rather be called anything. I told that to the lady at the psych ward. She called me in for a meeting after we ran a meeting at the psych ward and she says... We were talking about something and I says, well, you know, boy, us alcoholics, we'd rather come in here and say we're nuts than say we're alcoholic. And she says, you're kidding. I said, I think we need an in-service workshop here at the psych ward. And we did. We had one after that. But they couldn't believe that alcoholics would actually rather come in there and say they're insane and get a little bit looped up on whatever they shoot you with and stay in there and then escape back out to alcohol. They just found that unbelievable that we would do such things. They need to come to some roundups and listen to speakers. Montana. We had a women's group and a women's group decided it would bring their women to our meeting. And the women did not have a choice as to whether they were drug addicted or alcoholic to attend this meeting. They were mandated by their treatment center to come. And we were opposed from, we are opposed from this meeting. And some of the members would discuss that some of the women that were in the treatment center would identify themselves as drug addicts and they came up with a big book about them. And we didn't talk about it. So, they eventually ended the women coming to our meeting and it really saddened me that that was their solution. How did you, you addressed on a personal level how you addressed that. How did your group and your process address that? Okay, the question was sometimes treatment centers and other facilities send people to us in group. And they're not just a group of women. And some of them are alcoholics, some aren't. Some have various other problems. Some have no alcohol problem at all. And they're all sent to us. And how do we address that as a group? Does that pretty well capture it? That's a great question. Because we've had that a lot of times. A lot of times. And that's where it is so important in your district to have a good CPC committee. Cooperation with the professional community. And if there's a position there, public information is very important also. But cooperation with the professional community, you really need to have somebody who's diplomatic on that committee that's going out there and talking to these people. Because believe it or not, there are some egos involved with some of the professional community. And you have to really be careful of that. And it's how you address them and how we talk to them and how we treat them. And treat them with the respect that they're due and discuss these things. And what we have done is we've taken them up meeting lists and we've shown them where the open and closed meetings are. We've explained to them again what open and closed meetings are. And asked them. And we tell them. And it's right at the bottom of the information about AA or on AA. And it tells you what AA does and does not do. There's like three versions of those. I think Tom and I have found about three or four. One of them, the statement on singleness of purpose. One's Dr. Vincent Doyle. One is George Valiant. And another one has no name. But they're all good. And we take those to them also. And we try to explain all of these things to them. And at the bottom of that page it says, in the end run, what we all want is the same thing. We want to help the alcoholic recover. They do and we do. And we try to find a balance in there where we can do that with them and cooperate with them. We don't affiliate with them but we try to cooperate with them. And so sometimes rather than go up there and say, look, you can't do that. Sometimes it's better for like the CPC committee to come up and say, you know, we're having a little bit of problems. How can we solve that? What do you think we can do? And sit down with them. Take a look at them. Take them to lunch if you have to. Or if you're lucky, like the last time they invited us to lunch. But going there and talking to them has been the better solution. You get students from the colleges and stuff attending your meetings. You want to see some nervous alkies is when they come in and start taking notes. Boy, I mean, we really get nervous. We have started going to the professors and giving them open, giving them meeting lists with all the open meetings marked and explain why it's so important. Because there's alcoholics whose lives depend on them. There's alcoholics whose lives depend on this. And they come to the closed meetings where they can openly talk about this and not have to worry about it. And we've had nothing but cooperation with the people at the colleges. Actually, they ask us up there to talk about it at times with their students. The same way with our treatment facilities. And our in, there's, we have the in-house and we have also the outpatient, intensive outpatient and outpatient. And we've worked with all of them. And we also work with the pre-release center. We have those. We're there right down in your neighborhood. And they send a lot of people over. And we've worked with a lot of them. And we take meetings into them, too. And we just try to keep this open. And that's one of the neat things. That's one of the best things about having districts is that all of the groups can come together and pool their information and have somebody be the contact person. And I cannot stress enough that you have somebody who's trusted that is informed about AA and is up on the traditions and up on the concepts, you know. And maybe they can be guided by somebody who is that has already been through there. But when you go to these people and you talk to them, you have to treat them with respect and try to impress upon them what AA is and what it's all about. And we have found that it's really important. We found it's also important to give them a little bit of a breakdown on what our structure is and why we are here and not just somebody else. And instead of having somebody from every group hitting on them, we've got one name where they can call. They don't have to worry about trying to get all these other people. They can call one number and get a hold of either our CPC chair or the DCM, and they can get action. And then we only have one person taking the problems from all the groups back to them. So we don't have this. We don't antagonize them. And we found that this, they develop a relationship with them over about a two-year period. And if they've served on the committee before, it's even longer. But this relationship they develop with them, it just makes things flow so much better, and we eliminate a lot of these problems. Yes? This is a really big problem in our district. We have a really big district. Do you think the way you just talked about can be transmitted through a letter? Because we have a lot of treatments in hospitals and youth hospitals. Do you think the CPC is going to work together on a letter? And, you know, would that be impersonal? I mean, we've talked about that before. We don't want it to be impersonal, either like handing or who they can send through a letter, you know? All right. All we can do is request, anyway. Oh, the question was, would it work better to send a letter if, since we have such a big district and we have so many of them, could sending letters also work if you can't get to all of them person to person? And we can't tell anybody what to do. We can't even tell the courts what to do. We just go ask them, you know, could we cooperate here, you know? But what we can do is we try to get to them all personally, and if you absolutely cannot, I guess then you would have to write them. Do you get junk mail? What do you do with it? Most times, I got a dumpster right by my mailbox out by the county road. It doesn't even get to the house. I just start shuffling it off. But what we have to do is make it very clear. Don't do a lot of stuff on there. Make it clear, very short and concise. Maybe even phone them and let them know that this letter's coming. Do something. But by and large, the letters, we've had poor luck with the letters. Even when we've had CPC luncheons and invited them, with the letters, we just didn't get the response. When you go out and ask them, we got a lot better response through it. But if you have no other choice, absolutely. But for us, we found, if you can't get it all on the front side of the sheet, don't send it. It's just like a resume. If you haven't got it on the front, well, they're not going to see much on the second page. And try to capture their attention. Call them. Say, please call us. We'd love to come and talk to you or whatever. Luncheons are a good thing. Do you guys do CPC luncheons? Breakfast or luncheons or whatever. Even potlucks, they love that. And get a bunch of people there and set somebody at each table with them and let them ask questions and do this stuff. This is what works really good. It's very good to have, again, trusted servants going out there because you want somebody that can represent AA. And it isn't saying that you've got to be dressed really fancy. It's not saying that you've got to be dressed really fancy. Or anything else. Or be a linguist of any kind. Just polite and treat them with respect. That's a key thing. Brenda. I just wanted to mention, because I mentioned this earlier, about that statement of purpose. Brenda's going to be up here and say something. I just wanted to mention earlier, and I talked about this, because it's so key. I mean, it's in all of our pamphlets now that are written to the professionals about our statement of AA's singleness of purpose. And I think that it's a really good statement to use as a talking point in beginning to talk with some of the professionals. And I'll read it again, just because it says exactly what Alcoholics Anonymous is. Some professionals refer to alcoholism and drug addiction as substance abuse or chemical dependency. Non-alcoholics are, therefore, sometimes introduced to AA and encouraged to attend AA meetings. Anyone may attend open AA meetings, but only those with a drinking problem may attend closed meetings. And that's a good statement of purpose to begin talking with the professional about that issue. Thanks. Thank you, Brenda. That's also one that AA as a whole has voted on at the conference. Well, sometimes you just have to keep trying. Just look at how many times they tried on us. Not that we didn't hear every time either. In fact, I don't think I heard a damn thing until I was inside. But I think this is a key thing, and it's so important to have informed people, like your GSR is going to the district and you're going to be able to get information from the district. And I think that's a good statement. And I think that's a good statement. And I think that's a good statement. And I think that's a good statement. And I think that's a good statement. Of course, it's going to the district and picking the, you know, choosing the people by election that are going to serve your district and your area. Because this is extremely important because, as we said at the start, all we are is a life support system for that 12 step call going on. That one alcoholic talking to another alcoholic. That's what it's all about. And we just happen to have the opportunity to go into places where we have captive audiences. Prisons, jails, treatment centers, whatever. We get to go in there and do this. And it's a fantastic opportunity. those doors open. And I know the same thing happens here as happens where we're at. All of a sudden, there'll be a new election, and you get a new sheriff, and there's a new jailer, and bam, the jail's closed. You can't get in. We didn't do anything wrong. It's just sometimes there's an alcoholic in charge in there now, and they don't want us there, whatever the reason. Treatment centers have a turnover in whoever's in charge. Bam, you're out of there. We don't go over there and throw a fit. We just start the footwork again to try to get it going. We start working with them and saying, you know, we've been here in the past, and what is it that we can do to make this work? We can't compromise our traditions, but sometimes we can meet them at some points on it, but we can't compromise our traditions at all in doing those. But it's really important work, and that's what we're all about, is doing that. And it's so important. We have so many millions and millions and millions coming. And I know that I take a meeting into the school, high school, every Thursday, and it's my best meeting I get to go to. It's just so good. These kids are all 14 to 18 years old, and they've been... They're so hammered. They've been beat up. They've been sexually abused. They've been abandoned by their families. They've been put into foster homes, and it happens all over again. They've been using drugs and alcohol since they were little bitty tots, and it's just... And most of them don't know how to read. They fail three times before they get to lunch. And you get to deal with these kids. And there's a lot of them in there that don't know the difference between an alcoholic and an addict. And a lot of them are alcoholics. They just... They use it to get to where they're going. They're going to go and then get the other stuff. And you listen to their stories, and it's really incumbent upon us to be there to help them. You know, if they belong in Alcoholics Anonymous, we try to tell them all about what Alcoholics Anonymous is about, and that we love you. We don't care what crimes you committed. When you get ready, please come see us. If you think you're going to sober them up, you're going to disappoint yourself terribly. But if you can just plant the seed that maybe it'll sprout just before they pull the trigger, that's what it's all about. And that's what happens when you have babies be born clean and sober out of that group. The mothers didn't use a single drug the whole time they were in there. Just by being in there. And that's what happens from CPC committees and from the districts working with these people. I won't go over into that one. There is a... Does anybody have any more questions on that? There's a couple of things that got touched on just before lunch that we didn't really... We wanted to get into just a little bit. I know some people did. If you have some more questions, please feel free to ask. Any questions on trusted servant? This all fits in. I guarantee you. But okay, the first one was Alano Clubs. Or Alano. Which do you call them? Alano. Alano. Okay. Some places they call them Alano. And one of the big things about them is Alano Clubs are not AA. They are a private entity that has gotten together. Some people have gotten together, formed a corporation, and either leased or bought a building. Or built a building. And they rent out space in that building to groups to have meetings. Some rent out to more people than just AA. Some rent out to AA, Alano, NA, OA, several other people. But that is a private entity that owns that building. And they deal with their building. And what they do with their building is their business. If they choose to make it non-smoking, the only vote you have is to say we're going to stay here or we're going to leave. You know, that's it. The AA groups don't meddle in... Well, let's say... No, that's not right. The AA groups shouldn't be meddling in the Alano how they run it. And the Alano shouldn't be meddling with the groups how they run. That's a private thing. It's not in the AA service structure at all. Does everybody understand that? There was a lot of confusion on this in Billings where we had an Alano Club. And they were both trying to tell each other what to do and run each other. And it was just a mess all the time. And I think the term, the name of it almost lends itself to confusion. Niles. Usually the problem that seems to happen is the money issue. Pass the basket and it all goes to... I know different where it all goes to. It all goes to one central area which is the Alano Club. Instead of them paying rent. Now, is that really a violation of probably some traditions or something? You're so cute, Niles. The question was is if the group that meets at one of these Alano Clubs just puts all their money in the basket and gives it to the Alano, could that possibly be a violation of a tradition? Brenda talked about a piece of literature here about where spirituality and money meet. And that's in the hat. And I just ran into this in another area recently. I was listening to a... I was at their assembly, as a matter of fact. And they were talking at great length about how they send... The group send all... Many of the groups send all their money to the area. And they write on the envelope how they want it split up and sent out. And the ones that don't happen to designate it on there and just send a chunk of money, then the area just splits it 50-50 with GSO in the area. And I thought that was kind of different. Because where I'm from, this is just where I'm from, and everybody does it different. But where we're out there in Area 40, the groups split their money. When we get the money into our group, we pay our bills, we take care of all of our bills, and have our prudent reserves to make sure our GSR can go to the meetings that they have to go to. And then what's left over, we divide that up on a percentage basis and send it out to the different entities in AA, be it intergroup, district, general service office. You know, we send that out. And that's how we take care of it. And I just heard today something about this, where it's handed over to a non-AA entity, and then they kind of just do with the money however they choose. And also, I heard today that somebody said that the Alano... The Alano Club sends... sends money to the General Service Office. And I thought, what? I had alarms going off, because if non-AA entities cannot send money to the General Service Office, and that's... I'm not... I'm not... This isn't an arguable point, it's just a fact, you know. It's... That's just... It's not supposed to happen. And AA entities can send it. But I think that maybe everybody does what they want to in AA, and they have every right to be wrong, and they have every right to be right. And I would... My personal thoughts on it would be, they might want to read some of our literature on this, and how to divide that money up, and as to who we get money from in AA. Who... Who gives money to AA? We get millions offered to us by people who die, and we have to turn it down. Right there in Billings, just this last year, a fellow died and gave his house to AA. He's going to sell it and give all the money. Had to tell him, most we can ever accept is 2,000, and he donated that, so we had to get rid of that really fast. It was causing a fight, so... We split it up and sent it to all the districts and got it out of ours. But... You know, we kept our little portion, sent the rest out to the other districts, and then they bought books or whatever they did. But, you know, sometimes it just... It's... Because it's done... been done traditionally in a group doesn't mean that it's absolutely within the traditions. And sometimes this is what happens when we start coming to these... Maybe we learn about this. And maybe it's a situation that can be approached and talked about as to maybe we need to take a look at this if we're doing a group inventory and take a look at how we're dividing our money up and how are we supporting AA. Because when we're talking about the dollar that goes into the hat, we're really getting into the traditions of anonymity. Because anonymity is the spiritual basis of all our traditions. And the anonymity of putting that money in the hat and absolutely... It's not up to me where that goes once it's taken over by the group. You know, and they'll send it out to where they've got to send it out. And all of these other entities need to be financially supported so that we can carry the message. You know, and... When I was at... A delegate right at the end, John Q, was going to be rotating as a trustee at large, and he was talking about the thousands and thousands and thousands of people just in Africa that don't even have a big book in their language. I mean, it brought me to tears. I'm thinking, we have people throwing them in the fireplace. I've bought the same books three times at the used bookstore. I know them. I buy them there and I haul them over to the homeless meeting. And I know I've bought some of those three times. It's just kind of a circulation. But that's what that dollar's about. That's what the whole thing's about. And perhaps if this group can look at that, they can maybe get into our literature and find that. But to absolutely tell them they can't do it, that would be wrong on my part or anybody else's part, I guess, but just to maybe help them find a solution and become part of the life support of AA in our districts and our area and the General Service Office. Yes? Wait a minute. Did that answer the question? Okay. I guess this is contagious. You actually spoke to this a little earlier. My name's David. I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I was working on the previous rotation. I was assisting my district to the team in archives. And I did do a group history. I grouped the Spawn Alley and the original surviving member who still at least lived in coal country or part-time. He had a view that when they initially started their club, it was Andover, there was one group that spawned it. And so at the level of the squad council, he felt that if that decision was made, he would pull the money back out of the alleyway and set it as a single contribution on behalf of a group with multiple meetings. That was 10 to 2, even a couple years ago when I took my history. So once again, he spoke to that. Sometimes the issue of whether an alleyway is sending money and it happens to be their checking account. The principle is if the groups or the meetings of the group decide at a level of group conscience whether they're using a squad council entity or not, in our case, we supposedly used that law. It's not a bylaw. It's a set up for that reason. That's the voice of A&E Alleyway. Then those meetings collectively have a group with multiple meetings who made the choice to send money to PSO in the area, and that may be considered acceptable. So all I'm sharing is that one original founding member of the Andover Alleyway Society, that's the way he saw it when he founded it, and that's the way he still works at it today. Yeah, and I would not, I'm not saying anything against Alleyway. Do not mistake that because so many times they have opened up a possibility and a place for many, many groups to have meetings and grow and participate in the AA. That's not what it's about. It's just about there's guidelines on Alano clubs. The yellow ones that Brenda was talking about, which you can get online now, and those guidelines have amazing things in there to help us to do these things and to keep them on track. Our Alano club where I'm from, it got so sick it had to die. It just, it was like Friday Night Live, man. Date and service. And people were dropping their kids off and disappearing, and it just got really bad. And I really hated, I was on the, I wasn't on the board, but I was a member, a dues-paying member, and I had been since I came in. My sponsor told me to do it. But I actually voted for it to close too because it just didn't seem like there was a way out for it to go right. And since it disappeared, it's cleared up. Not that we don't have the Friday Night Dating situation still. But does that kind of help? But does that kind of handle the Alano clubs? Okay, there's one more that was kind of touched on, and then I'll let Brenda have a run at this. It has to do with intergroups. I know you guys have one here. And I know some of the people that work there. We have one up there too. And sometimes it gets a little confusing between what an intergroup is and what isn't in the service structure. Intergroups are not part of the service structure. That's just a fact. And what they are is they are a community-based thing. If you have the guidelines once again on these, it talks about intergroups being, in fact, intergroups were here before the service structure, if you read the history of it. They were here before the service structure. Many of them were. But all over the United States and Canada, other things have grown, and the service structure has grown. And intergroups themselves do not send money to a community. They don't send money to a community. They send money to AA. They handle a lot of AA literature. They do a lot of stuff in the community. And they are based on a community situation. And in Montana, we actually don't have any communities really big enough to warrant one. We could do it with a district office and handle a few things. But in the large communities, they do a lot of stuff. They handle the hotline, the 12-step call, and they buy literature en masse and have it there available for all the groups so they can just walk over there and buy books for their group. They do many things. But they are not part of the service structure. And many people ask, well, why aren't they? Are they part of AA or aren't they? They're part of AA. They're AA. It's all AA members and it's all about AA. But they're not part of the service structure. And that's something that's in our literature also. But if every intergroup is actually part of the service structure and those intergroups actually had votes at the district office, then that's a big deal. And that's a big deal. And that's a big deal. And that's a big deal. And that's a big deal. And we want to make sure that we're not just having the intergroups at the district or at the area or at the general service conference. Now, in trying to keep an informed group conscience in AA, we try to reach all the groups in an area or a district and have all of them give input. Well, if they were also, the intergroups were also being represented in this voting mix, then all the large communities would be having about twice as many votes as the rural areas. that it can go wrong. Also, sometimes intergroups sell a lot of other things other than conference-approved literature, which we, as service structure, we try to just stick with our stuff. And intergroups being separate entities, however, in the guidelines, they are bound by the traditions also. And sometimes we can get into some terrible fights over that, but as servants in the service structure, I think we need to keep our focus on service structure and our traditions and how we live them and how we do them. But they are not part of the service structure, and one of the good reasons is it would be double representation. And out there, like we have two in Montana, well, those two towns would have way more votes at everything than the rural, and they barely have votes now. So is there any questions on intergroups? Can't believe that. Niles. The perception of intergroups seems a lot of times, because they put on workshops and they put on speaker meetings or whatever, is it seems that they're almost in conflict or trying to do what an area does. And it seems that there's a perception problem between intergroups. The relationship between intergroup and an area. So how does one try to solve that kind of problem? Is it a lack of information? Is it just a lack of, you know, not understanding? Is it a lack of not communicating what this really is or what? Okay, the question, as I have it, is sometimes it seems like there's a lack of understanding. I mean, I think that the scheduling of events sometimes between intergroup and the service structure conflict each other, and sometimes it's in what these workshops and some of these events are about. And it's like sometimes maybe they're trying to schedule events to teach people about how to do service work or something like. Is that pretty close? Or did I miss, I must have missed part of that. I can see your face. Well, I guess the thing is, is that, I guess I'm concerned because even when I was out at the regional forum, I felt that there was a very big tension between intergroups and central offices, for instance, in the literature sales department and groups and whatever. And I don't like that kind of thing. So how would we change the perception? So. People aren't always just getting up and whining about nothing. Or are they whining about something? Okay. So then the rest of that question was, is how to, you know, is there a conflict between the service structure and intergroups and in purchasing of literature and selling literature and that type of thing? Is that pretty well? Yeah. Okay. Yes, there is. That's about it. And how are we going to get them to quit sniveling? You're not. Hopefully they outgrow that. But a lot of times, here's the most fascinating dynamic of the whole thing, is that the groups that support intergroup and the groups that are in district and area are all the same groups. Yet you have this contention between the two. And it couldn't possibly be personalities, could it? You know? And looking at it and watching it for a long time where I'm at, it's been a personality thing. Because it's the exact same groups. The representatives come out of the same groups. The IGRs and the GSRs, they're coming out of the exact same groups. And they go to this. And yet there's this conflict. And we have it there too. But we solved some of that by defining who was responsible for what within that district. And within the two districts that actually our intergroup covers. And we started defining some of the responsibilities of who does what. And. And that helped greatly. But there's still, you're going to have that now and again no matter what. Then the only best solution I can say is trying to be back to the thing that you read at the start, is cheerful compromise. And trying to work out a solution, meeting and talking and discussing it, getting it out on the table and saying, well, here's what's going on. What are we going to do about it? Not saying, you know, we have a tendency sometimes to kind of skirt around the issue and not take it head on. And sometimes it's best just to lay that thing out there and see what it is. Just kick it and see if it really is a turd. You know? And that seems to help the best. Was that too graphic? I don't know. Sometimes I get accused of that. But you do. That's our cooperation. Brenda, do you have something you'd like to add? I just want to add just a piece of history about that. I'm not sure if you have any questions. I'm just going to go ahead and get this out. I'm going to go ahead and get this out. I'm going to go ahead and get this out. I'm going to go ahead and get this out. I'm going to go ahead and get this out. Bob mentioned this, that the intergroups or the general service structure really came out from the structure of the intergroups. Bill used to travel around the country. And I have been to the intergroup office in Boston. And he used to go there a lot. And intergroups really, in the beginning, before we had a service structure, took care of going into hospitals and had like H&I, hospitals and institutions. And had all of those committees, a public information committee. Had all of those committees and were working to carry the message to alcoholics via those committees. And so part of our service structure is really Bill traveling around looking at the intergroups and developing our service structure by some of the things that the intergroups were doing. So I think that part of that is there's the confusion that maybe is left over from that where there are some areas where... I mean, I know an area in Ohio where their intergroup is very, very strong and the service structure is very, very weak because the intergroup does a lot of the things that the service structure could be doing or should be doing. And so I think what Bob is saying about getting together and talking about it, I think the cooperation is what really is important. And I think that that's... We try to... You know, we try to do that in our area with our intergroups is to cooperate. We don't affiliate, but we cooperate. And we talk about what is it that the intergroups do to provide local services and what is it that the area service structure does to provide services and how we can work together but not duplicate efforts. But really when you look at the history of where our structure came from, it came from the structure of the intergroups. I'll just bring that back. I think that's a great point. So... Well, maybe if I can't... I don't know if I can answer it. Well, you said that who's accountable to who then? Can people in the intergroup be accountable to alcohol as an autonomous as a whole in Area 36 and hence... And of course, the groups that have the responsibility of supporting those, do you believe that the intergroup has the ability to function anonymously without any compel over to Area 36? Oh, to Area 36. That's a good question. Do they not serve alcohol as an autonomous? No. They don't serve alcohol as an autonomous. No, the intergroup can't. And that's not a good thing. No, I mean... If that's the case, they can't do it. And if they can't do it, then why not? Why can't they? Oh, to Area 36. Okay. Let me see if I understand the question. The question is, basically, is the inner group accountable in any way to Area 36? Okay. And the answer to that, what I would see the answer to that is, and I could be wrong, okay, and that is no. The inner group is accountable to the groups that it serves. The inner group has a monthly meeting with the inner group representatives from the meetings, from the groups that it serves, and they also have a board of directors, okay? And so the inner group is accountable to those groups that it serves. Okay. Therefore, so I agree with you that not all areas. Right. Therefore, they give the groups want them. To lower their literature prices or costs, they would need to do that. And henceforth, the groups would have to support the inner group or cut back their services. Okay. So the other question is, is that if the groups wanted inner group to lower their cost on literature, they would have to do that, and that then those groups would have to support that inner group by group contributions. Yes. Yeah. Sure. That's some stuff. There's some more. Well. Are these for Brenda? Can you say more about what conflict is? I don't understand what conflict is. I mean, what Matt was talking about about literature. It sounds like the responsibilities get confused, and some are, you know, even inner group or the service structure is doing, maybe the responsibilities of others, but can you say more on that? Okay. The question is, is can we? Can we have a better definition of what the conflict is? And a lot of times, I'll tell you what, a lot of times, I don't think anybody involved in the conflict can really put their finger on it. It's just been that way for a lot of years. And this is, and I'm not even joking about that, because it's just this animosity between them, and it's grown over the years, and it's because it's kind of like in the same, in two people in a relationship, a failure to communicate. And what happens is they need to communicate on the literature issue, something that came up here in the last, a little bit in AA, was that they have, it has been decided to put a 10% surcharge on literature, all literature orders under $250, which most small groups would be paying the $200. Anybody ordering literature under $250 would be paying a 10% surcharge besides shipping and handling. From GSO. From GSO. Okay. All people are. Entities ordering literature over $250 would not pay a 10% surcharge, and they also would get discounts for ordering large numbers. And there's been a little bit, that's in discussion right now, and it's going to be in discussion probably at the conference, because I know it's coming out of our region, going there saying that we don't, that people believe this not to be fair, because the groups support the thing anyway, and why are they being charged now? And that's just some of that discussion. And there's. A little bit of animosity maybe there that intergroups that aren't even part of the service structure are getting a break, where the people who are the groups who send all the time aren't getting that. And actually, some of the background information on that issue isn't so much that they want the break too, they want a level playing field for everybody. Just one deal for everybody. And I believe the way it's written up, they want to eliminate the 10% surcharge and get rid of discounts, and just everybody pay the same. Straight across. And I think that's the way it's written up. It's not like you're going to get a special deal. It isn't like you're wanting a special deal. And I just happen to know about that one, because it's coming out of Area 40. But that was some of the discussion at the regional that Niles was talking about. But as far as for conflicts within, between, I've got about, what, three minutes left? Before he has to switch to a new CD. He said we can go as long as we want. Just kidding, Josh. But a lot of that is, is it just develops this thing. It's kind of. It's a big antagonism. And you know, have you ever seen those signs on the doors of it? It says, the best people in the world pass through these doors. Well, some of them just haven't developed yet. And I've been, I've been part of that myself. And I've had to just pull myself back from it and stay out of it. Because I was involved in it. I was involved in starting the inner group in our, where we're at. And I was also involved in getting district finally functioning and going as, you know, a bunch of us did. And, but there's still, there were some, there was some confusion on who was doing what. Once we got that cleared up, the animosity seemed to stay. And sometimes some folks don't feel they're bound by their traditions and they can do what they want. And it just causes some conflict. And we're going to have that in AA. And we may not like it, but that's just the way of life. It's going to be, our best thing is to do everything we can to resolve that conflict through cheerful compromise. Setting down, talking with people. And getting the facts out on the table and, and, and quit having these kind of hidden agenda things be kicked around. Because we're so, we're, we're just wasting time. We're making so much effort when we should be working with the alcoholic. That's, that's the key thing. That's, that's where we need to be headed. And not being involved in burning up all this daylight on these things. It's kind of like thinking for an alcoholic. It's just wasted time. Let's go work with another alcoholic. Is that about it, Josh, for your time on the CD? Let's just, let's just stop the taping and then have, play our conversation for three minutes. Three minutes? Okay, somebody have a question they want to get on the CD? Yes, sir. On the subject of inner group and the service structure. When I first got involved with the service structure, I was astonished to find that inner group wasn't a part of it. And given the fact that they, and I'm also astonished to learn that they preceded the service structure in history. Given the fact that they provide us with such essential things like literature and the call from the still suffering alcoholic, who calls inner group quite often, the number of phone books that they go to. How come they haven't been absorbed into the service structure? Okay, the question was, is because inner groups preceded the service structure and they came up with all these great things that the service structure was basically designed after. And because they do have the hotline and answering service and provide literature to groups in a given community, how come they haven't been absorbed into AA? Okay, just shut it off whenever you need to, Josh. Okay. And I talked to that in part, but part of that is because inner groups aren't everywhere. Not every town in America is as big as Minneapolis. And out there in many, I think in our region we've only got, what, six inner groups, something like that? That's it in our whole region. And so when you talk about bringing inner groups in and giving them a vote and making them part of the service structure, you're actually going to be giving extra representation to the large populous areas. Therefore, the small voice out in rural AA is going to have less of a voice. And it's really going to detract from the informed group conscience of being able to see really what's there because the large amount of votes are going to be where the large amount of people are involved in that. We're out here where people have real problems. And I shouldn't say real problems. But they really have problems. They really have problems with space and not enough people to do it and finances and stuff. And they're dealing with them, and they need to be heard and it needs to be considered. And that's all part of it. And everybody having one vote in their home group is part of it, too. And it's been a long time talked about. And it's always been decided that they provide a community service where a community decides on it, not AA as a whole. Does that help? Okay. We're out of CD. And so we're done with that. And now do you guys want to ask the real questions? Yes, ma'am. Hi, my name is . This is . And this goes back to something you covered earlier when talking about elections and choosing the best person to do the job. How would you suggest a group, specifically in the big bubble, handle elections when they're in the middle of the election? When there is that person who is not the best at the job, volunteers. And how do you handle it when no line is better than no more line? Say, let's vote on that and send the one person on the road. Is there any suggestions for what you can do to avert that? Assassination might work. But really, CD was off, I hope. We shoot a few people up there. But no, in all seriousness, that is a problem. That does get to be a problem. And the group is really responsible for whatever the group gets. And a lot of that is involved in just what we're doing here today, this workshop. And having my home group. We do a lot of in-group workshops on how to chair meetings and different stuff. And bringing our people a little bit more up to speed on what the service structure is. And informing them. And we drag them along. We don't just tell them where to go. We drag them. We drag them with. And we do all these things. And get them involved so that you do have people who can step up and be the GSR. And you do have people who can step up and be the DCM. And it's not about... You want somebody who... Actually, most of the time, it isn't how much they know. It's how willing they are as to who's the best person. Because sometimes when we think, when we know too much, we're dangerous. But somebody who's very willing to at least learn and show up and do it, that's very good. And in a home group, maybe that's what you need to decide as a home group. Is never to have an election with everybody in the room. Have them leave the room or something. Whatever you need to do. But that would be your group decision. But it's up to the group to train its own replacements. And I... Sometimes people don't like that word. But we actually teach AA. We really do. Because people come to us and have no idea what it's about. They haven't got a clue. And where are they going to learn it from? But the people in the home group. And their sponsors. And they learn it by example and watching and going and doing. I don't know if that helped you. But that's the best way to get them. Because we can't draft. We can't sneak out to another group and draft one. We've tried it. But... It's best to elect somebody from your own home group. But that's our responsibility. And if you have to suffer through another one. Just try to make sure that it doesn't happen twice. Because sometimes it can be tough. A lot of times it is. Does anybody else have a better answer for that? Oh, Tom. I don't know about that. I mean, you've got a word that's spoken out there. I don't know if that's the way to go. It's a very simple answer. You've got to go. You've got to go to the district meeting a few times. Anybody can go to those district meetings. You still have to have a title to vote for. Or we actually sent our GSRs for a district to license them up. And the only thing he said, we vote no for this person. And he was the only candidate. So the problem was, all it would take is a few people to vote for our people. A person. And even that person would have got voted into the PI chair for our district. And that person did not do a good job in the last location. We need to send our GSRs to the district. Say no to that. say no and explain it if necessary. And she went and she talked to people and the person was not fully in and they left the position open because of that. It's not a good time to stand. The flat rate situation, you know, it is detrimental to alcohol and cannabis that you've got to set the personality in time to say, go ahead and try it. You know, you can say two things in two different ways. You can say it negatively or you can put it in the positive sign. I'm not saying you aren't qualified. You know, you can just say, you know, it may fit for you better if you come and try it out first. And I'll even go with you. You know, volunteer to sit next to that person. And then you find out that they're not the best qualified person. But I think you've got to keep that position because otherwise you may have two years of an unqualified person and that's detrimental to the group and it takes the BSR or the case part. We could add a district with a absent EPI there and that whole line wouldn't be a good answer. So you've got to say something. And it's not just detrimental to the group. It's detrimental to the district and the area as a whole then. You said you had a great answer. You know, like I said, we have a group, a fairly large group. We have time for one person to stand and to complain. You don't let that person have the job to act for yourself. And that's the way it is. If you make that person do a bad job, then you need to take that job and do a good job. So we'll put the responsibility on the person who has the job. When I was area chair, we had a situation arise and we had no way to work this out. And I don't know if you do in your area. When I was area chair, you get to be very personal and watch everybody, what they're doing in their jobs. And I noticed that there was two people who were never sending in expenses and they never had a report really. And what they were really doing was nothing. And they did that for two years. They'd come to the assembly, give a kind of a report and go back and that was the way it went. So then, we have elections for the next round. And these two people stand up again and they get elected again. And I'm sitting there and I wanted to get up so bad at the assembly and say, these two people did nothing. How could, you know, we can't be electing them but we had no place for that to address that and not cause a lot of animosity and probably a lot of dissension in our area. And so it just happened and they got their positions and for two more years they did nothing. And we've been working on trying to have a different form of elections to select these people so more people are involved in the selection before they're nominated. But you just have to work as best you can to try to take care of that stuff. Because to me it's the most important thing and being a trusted servant and that we provide the best possible servant that we can in our conscience that we've done the best that we can for it. Anything else? I would like to thank you very much. I'd like to thank the committee, Niles and everybody, Brenda, all of you for having me here. It's what a treat and what a privilege. I love Minnesota. I love north and south, either one. I like them the same. And my chauffeur's from northern Minnesota. But what a treat to be here. Yeah, I got to say that. Still got to get to the airport. And but what a treat to be here and be with you, and I got to serve with some great people. I got to serve with Denny, and I got to serve with Esther, and I got to serve with Don. And these people were just monumental in my sobriety. And Don, what a prince. He unified our area, our region. Like you couldn't believe, he just solidified us. He made huge moves towards that. And you people have some great service people here, and you have a lot of great servants. Out in the rest of the region, I know from over in Montana, we used to watch all the time and just marvel at how you guys had your service. I know you guys had your service. I know you guys had your service structure set together, because we were just stumbling through the dark for a while. And I thought, in fact, some of the delegates would come back and say, oh, Montana's in the dark. We don't even know what's going on. And but I had an opportunity to go visit another region and go to an assembly here just in the last year. We're doing good, folks. I guarantee you. Boy, we may not be the best, but I'll tell you what, we're way ahead in some areas. And just to be knowledgeable, the knowledge and the understanding of you people sitting in this room today. What you demonstrate and what you already have read and what you have knowledge of is just unbelievable. I sat in this other one and it was, there's no other way to say it but ignorance. And ignorance is curable. Stupidity lasts forever. But ignorance is curable. And there was a lot of ignorance. I heard people with 21 and 25 years of sobriety standing up and saying the most ignorant things as to service structure. It was just unbelievable. And I saw a young man get up and speak to the issue. And he was well read and he had, I don't know, where he got his information because nobody else had it. But he stood up and talked to the issue and he was just annihilated on the floor by somebody up at the podium through sheer ignorance and a loud voice. And I don't see that happening. I see AA alive and well in the service structure of our region, especially in Minnesota and Montana. I just, I love it. But being able to come down here and be with you people and do some of the stuff with you, I just, I treasure it. And I thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Thank you.