Mark on Steps 4 and 5 — Removing Spiritual Blocks and the Phenomenon of Craving

12 and 12, some of us may have used other literature. The reference point will be the fourth edition of Alcoholics Anonymous. That's how the first 100 recovered, and that's going to be our reference point. Due to time constraints, again, I'm going to be cherry-picking throughout this day. We're not going to be reading absolutely everything from the big book. I'm a big advocate of getting through the work at a fast clip, and then revisiting the work, I'm a big advocate as well. Whether you get into a big book study and go through things line by line and get a deeper experience, I'm a big advocate of that as well. I guess as much as anything, I am not an expert on the big book. I am not a spokesman for any 12-step. recovery program, AA, or any other. I'm a person sharing my own experience. I'm likely going to get some things wrong today. I don't have the big book memorized. I'm going to share my experience. What I don't want this to turn into, though, is a forum of open debate. If there's something that you've done with a sponsor that you don't agree with, save it until afterwards. You can approach me after the meeting, and we can have that discussion. You can say, hey, this is... This is what my interpretation is. We're going to get bogged down in here forever if we turn this into a forum of open debate and open discussion. Prime example, again, with that set-aside prayer is I'm setting aside everything I think I know so that I can learn something, too. For example, a member came to me after the meeting the other day, and I think it's important to mention because in step two, I was talking about creating. I was talking about your own conception of God, and I said it on a multitude of occasions. A member came up to me afterwards, and he says, that's not what's in the big book. How can you create the creator? Of course, I go to the big book, and I look, and it's not what it said. It says, choose your own conception of God. Go forward. I'll use the word choose instead of create. It gives me the opportunity to learn something as well. You know? What else do I got here? Just a quick review of the first three steps. We got some new faces in here today, right? And then we're going to jump right into step four and some inventory. Now, I also want to put it out there today that I'm in unchartered territory. I've never taken a group through steps four and five before. I've done a multitude of one, two, threes. So if I start staring at everybody with a blank look, right? I have no idea what I'm doing. So this is going to be a bit of a dry run for us to learn and maybe do a few things again. Maybe not do a few things again, right? You know, I just really think that the learning comes from not studying things over and over and over again, but actually getting right in the trench and doing things, right? You know, I've heard the analogy of 90 meetings in 90 days on a multitude of occasions. I'm actually not 100% against that. Right? Right? Right? If I'm going to go to the gym for 90 times in 90 days, but if I just sit there and discuss lifting weights and talk about lifting weights and read about lifting weights or getting on a treadmill, right? And if it's just all discussion, I'm just sitting there and I'm watching everyone else do the work. What's going to happen at the end of 90 days? Nothing, right? I will have attended the gym for 90 days and nothing has happened. Okay? Okay, so this is about getting in the trench, doing the work. We may make some mistakes. Again, I might be wrong. You might be right. We both might be wrong. I'm giving up on that discussion. Okay? Quick review of the first three steps. We got to learn in step one. And if there's any one thing that I want anyone to get out of this, more than anything, is to understand what it means to suffer from the disease of alcoholism. Okay? Again, a lot of my experience within early Alcoholics Anonymous, it had to do with the war of stories. I'm an alcoholic because, for you guys, I'm an alcoholic because I got in all this trouble, you know, all these different things. Just a really quick review of the disease of alcoholism or the illness, as the big book would call it, of alcoholism, is I got a three-part illness, right? Physical means I put alcohol in me, I break out into the phenomenon of craving, and I do not know when I'm going to stop. I don't recover from that. I got that for life. Right? When I refer to myself as a recovered alcoholic, it has nothing to do with that. Number two is the mental portion of the obsession of the mind. That's where the alcoholism lives, is right between the ears. Right? The strange mental blank spot. Okay? That's the portion that I actually do recover from. Right? So, and then the fourth, sorry, the third part is I suffer from a spiritual illness. Spiritual malady. Right? That's the internal condition which is alcoholism. That's me when I'm not drinking. Right? Again, I think that's what the normal people will never understand about an alcoholic or a drug addict, is if you knew how we felt when we weren't drinking, you wouldn't ask why we drank. Right? I'm very, very uncomfortable in my skin. Restless, irritable, discontented, sober. Okay? Okay? Okay? So, I'm going to address the differentiation, as the book calls it, between a real alcoholic and a problem drinker. Okay? And again, my story is I came in and out of these rooms for a very, very long time. I almost died getting to Alcoholics Anonymous and I almost died here again for seven years, in and out, in and out, in and out. I'm the real deal alcoholic, right? Based upon the three parts of the program, the three parts of the problem. I was in and out, in and out. I was listening to people that were trying to help me, but they were softening and watering down this program. Right? Again, they were saying, put the plug in the jug, meeting makers make it. Right? 90 and 90. Some of the things, and it's not like they woke up and said, how am I going to screw up Mark today? Right? They actually meant well. Right? But just, there's a great article that's out there. It's called, Beware of the Problem Drinker. Right? So me as a real alcoholic, I can't get sober off the fellowship. Tried it. Been there, done that. I remember coming into the program and then there'd be one person with 25 years of sobriety, because I always thought that the years of sobriety meant you know more, right? Or you're more spiritual. And I'd have one person tell me, well, you know, 25 years of sobriety, it's like, you need to do this step. You need to have a spiritual experience. Right? And then another person with 25 years of sobriety was very, very kind and nice to me. Said, don't worry about the steps. They're just suggested. Just take your time. Easy does it. Right? Well, guess who my next best, my best friend is. Right? I want the path of least resistance. Right? Like, well, that guy's 25 years sober. That's what he did. Right? But it doesn't mean that person is or ever was an alcoholic. Right? Again, he might've been a problem drinker. So again, if your experiences that you've been in and out of these rooms over a period of time, right? Trying to get sober off the meetings. Right? And then head nods, you know, again, I remember going to a hundred meetings in 90 days and actually wanting to put a bullet in my head. Right? I was so uncomfortable in my skin and a sober state. So I did get asked a question last week of, and we touched on it. There was two myths that I wanted to, to address last week. And that's regards to, there's no such thing as a recovered alcoholic and to take your time to do your steps. And the question got asked to me. Where's the reference point in regards to the recovered alcoholic? Right? And so I'm just going to touch on that because I, I gave my opinion last week, but I didn't actually reference any, any literature. So it's actually hidden deep, deep, deep in the big book on the cover page. So if you just go look on the cover page of the big book says Alcoholics Anonymous, the story of how many thousands of men and women have recovered from alcoholism. Okay, so the big book makes reference to recovered alcoholic with an E and a D 17 times. I'm not going to hit all 17. It makes reference to the word recover 82 times. It uses the word recovering twice and it refers to it as a temporary condition. The reason I announce myself and again I don't care how anyone announces themselves. I really don't. You want to announce yourself as recovering because that helps you put you in the consciousness that you're just very close to that next drink. All the power to you. Got no issue with that. Right, but when I take objection is when other people tell me what I should be saying. Okay, page 90. This is why I announced myself as recovered. And you got to remember when the book was written, it was written at a time before the meetings. The meetings weren't the program. Right? The book. The meetings came afterwards. And it's in the chapter called working with others. And what it's doing, it's making reference to meeting the new person. And on the second paragraph about halfway down, three quarters of the way down. It's talking here about meeting a newcomer. If he says yes. Everyone see that? Okay, so basically they're asking the question if the newcomer is interested in the program. If he says yes, then his attention should be drawn to you as a person who has recovered. Okay, that's why I announced myself as recovered alcoholic. Because the big book compels me to. Now if anyone doesn't want to do that, wonderful. Right, there's two major contentions that cause division in this program. One idea is, is this idea of announcing yourself as a recovered alcoholic. Again, it's in the big book over and over and over again. This isn't personal, right? You either believe in it, or you don't. So if somebody says, I don't believe in the big book, then I can actually be I'm okay with that, right? There's a level of honesty. But there's, I don't know, there's some members who want to make this personal. 1 00 O 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 00 0 0 0 0 0 5 00 0 0 0 0 0 0 O the members want to make this personal, right? It's like there's this division and it's this one group pitted against another group. It's like the literature's right here, right? If you don't buy into it, wonderful, just say so. I'm okay with that, right? But that's, as you're going through this book, just look for it. It shows up over and over and over again, but I don't announce myself as Mark. I'm a cured alcoholic. There's a big difference, okay? We'll hit that when we get to the step 10 promises. I'm put in a position of neutrality, safe and protected. I'm given a daily reprieve based on my spiritual condition. What I do each and every day is dependent upon that spiritual condition. What I'm saying is I can get sick again. If I quit doing the things that I need to do, the spiritual malady comes back, the obsession comes back, and then I can end up drinking again, all right? Okay. Let's get right into step four. This is where we lose most people, all right? Because the pen now hits the paper. This program can be summed up in three phrases. Okay. Trust God. Okay. Your whole program can be summed up right there. Trust God. Clean house. Help others. What's that? That was a prescription from Dr. Bob. Yeah, that's actually what he wrote as a prescription to his clients that had alcoholism. Trust God. Clean house. Help others. Okay. So we're going to, again, this is where we lose most people. I want to touch on what I believe is an extremely important reading that brings us into step four. It's over on page 55. We read it every meeting. This is usually when everyone's zoned out, thinking about what they're going to share or what they're going to make for dinner. Oh, I got the wrong page. Yeah. Sorry. 58. I'm getting old. Page 58. There's a word I'm going to point out three times here. It's again, this is during how it works. We read it every meeting where most people aren't paying attention, including me. Okay. Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to the simple program. Usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. It doesn't say faithful, right? Right. Doesn't say what? Doesn't say faith. It says they can't be honest. Faith? Yeah. Faith. Faithful? Like believing in God. Believing in God. Faithful. Right. Right. They're such unfortunates. They are not at fault. They seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living, which demands rigorous, again, honesty. Okay. Okay. Their chances are less than average. They're from grave emotional and mental disorders. But many of them do recover if they have the capacity. Again, it's your third time. Yeah. The capacity to be honest. Okay. That is the main credential for this program is the capacity to be honest. I see a lot of people that struggle with faith that make it. I see people that can recite the Bible that don't. All right. This is a program of honesty. In step two, we got to learn that. And I guess I didn't touch on step two. In step two, we got to learn that. Well, step one, we got to learn we're not management material and we're open-minded to a new manager. Right. And then in step three, we basically made the agreement that we're going to follow through with the rest of the steps. Okay. But I've seen it over and over again. You know, when people relapse, it's usually has to do with a chunk of dishonesty in their life. You know, whether it's a. A dishonesty on a four step or a fifth step, or even if they had recovered and they've got multiple years of sobriety and the spiritual malady starts to come back or they start to struggle in sobriety. I talked to my sponsor about this all the time. Right. He's like, I promise you that person's got a chunk of dishonesty in their life that they're not sharing with somebody, whether it's a fair or the patent expense account or there's something going on. Right. That they're just not talking about. And again, this program allows us to make mistakes. We will make mistakes. We're human. We're not going to do anything. We're not going to do anything. We're not going to do anything. We're not going to do anything. We're not going to do anything. We're not going to do anything. So the main word that's going to be brought into a step four here is this idea of honesty. Okay. We're just going to carry off, carry on where we left. We're just going to actually do some reading right from the big book here. So we finished with step three on our last session. And we talked about this idea of taking your time and that, uh, and then again, what the big book actually says. So we had didn't did the step three prayer, the step three proposition. And then it says, this was only a beginning though. If honestly and humbly made an effort, sometimes a very good, great one was felt at once. And it says, next we launched on a course of vigorous action. Okay. Not nothing slow about this, which many of us had never attempted. Though our decision was vital and crucial, it could have little permanent effect. It gives me another timeline here. Unless. At once followed by strenuous effort to face and to end where it, to be rid of the things in ourselves, which had been blocking us, our liquor, but was a symptom. We had to get down to causes and conditions. Okay. So what's the whole purpose of a step four? Any guesses? True. 100%. Right now, we got a pastor in the room. I'm going to try and get my conception on God right now. So this would be interesting. This is my conception. Okay. All right. We got some oil and gas people in the room. I know we do. So where does it, where does our big book tell us to find? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Deep down within us. Deep down within us. Right? Means it was always there. Right? And what it's saying, and we just read it, the whole purpose of a step four is to find out what's been blocking us. All right? So think of this like a pipeline. And there's a flow. Call that the sunlight of the spirit flowing back and forth. God hasn't moved. I haven't moved. Right? But what's happened is along the way, there's been these little checkpoints. Check valves put in. Or think of it as like a pipeline and there's these little pigs put in. Right? And these check valves are, for example, okay, and I'm just randomly putting some stuff up there. Okay? And the whole purpose of doing the step four is to find out the causes and conditions, what's been blocking us from the sunlight of the spirits. Okay? What is our dilemma? Lack of what? Power. Lack of power. Okay? Not lack of faith. Right? Lack of power is our dilemma. The whole purpose of doing a step four is to identify what the blocks are. And again, this isn't meant as therapy, although it can be therapeutic. It isn't meant as confession. Although there's an element of confession to it, steps four and five. Right? But the whole idea here is to drill down into causes and conditions, drill down to what has been blocking myself from the sunlight and the spirit so that I can actually have access to power. My experience with this program is you can do it under protest. You can say, I don't believe in any of this. Right? But as long as you actually do it with a level of honesty, you can do it under protest. Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Honestly, it happens to you. Right? It's no different than if I'm to bake a cake. I can bake a cake under protest as long as I put the correct ingredients in. I put it in the oven for the right amount of time. I can sit there with my arms folded staring at the stove going, this will never bake. But as long as I did things correctly, I'm going to get a cake. My experience with Alcoholics Anonymous is the same. You can do this under protest. You can say, you know what? This is all crap. You guys are a cult, right? But just follow the steps, follow the program, and something's going to happen. You're going to have an experience here. Okay? Let's go right into the book here. And another example of a way to think of this is like the sun shining through a dirty window. Okay? The whole purpose of Step 4 and 5 are Alcoholics Anonymous as a program in general. It's not about addition. This whole thing is about removing, right? So the whole idea of Step 4 and 5 is taking this thing and cleaning that window. We're removing things. We're not adding anything, right? So now that the sun, the sun can actually go through that window and it's not being blocked by a bunch of dirt, right? The dirt is the character defects, the things that have been blocking us. It's the purpose of what we're doing here. Okay. Therefore, we started upon a personal inventory. This was Step 4. A business which takes no regular inventory typically goes broke. Okay? So again, this isn't therapy. Let the therapists do the therapy out there. The counselors do the counseling. We're not junior counselors. We're not junior therapists, right? Think of this like a grocery store owner walking up and down the aisles seeing what's there, right? I'm just going to take stock. There's no emotion attached to it. If I see a box of cereal, I'm just going to write down their cereal here. I'm not going to say, oh, that cereal came from China and it came from a boat and this is a manufacturer that made it. It's like, no, we have a propensity for drama, right? We're just business owners walking up and down the aisles taking stock. We're just going to see what's here. Okay? A business which takes no inventory usually goes broke. Taking a commercial inventory is a fact-finding and fact-facing process. It is an effort to discover the truth about the stock and trade. One object to disclose the damage and unsaleable goods, to get rid of them promptly, okay? Not slowly and without regret. If the owner of the business is to be successful, he cannot fool himself about values. We did the exact same things with our lives. We took stock honestly. First, we searched out the flaws in our makeup which caused our failure. Being convinced that self manifested in various ways had defeated us. We learned that in step one. We learned we weren't management material. We learned that self-will run riot didn't work for us. And then we brought on a new manager. We considered its common manifestations. This idea of being convinced that self manifested in various ways is what defeated us. It's almost talking like there's two different entities here. Self defeated us. And one of the words that's described to you to describe alcoholism is cunning. And if you look at the definition of cunning, it's deceit through trickery. And if something's got the evil eye, it's got the ability to deceive, it's got the ability to think. And if something's got the ability to think, it's its own entity. And I believe that alcoholism, there's something within my brain that talks to me non-stop and it's not good. Does anyone have that experience? Especially prior to the program. And the biggest trick it's ever done to me, it's made me think those thoughts were my thoughts. But it's saying that self defeated us. Self, ego, there's a bunch of different names for it. I truly believe that I have an illness that wants me dead and it'll settle for me drunk. And it just talks and talks and talks and talks. And it's not good stuff. So this is what we're doing here. We're going to start identifying what the blocks are. Resentment is the number one offender. I thought booze was. Resentment is the number one offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else. Here's an interesting part. Past page 23 in the big book, it doesn't talk about alcohol anymore. Right? First 23 pages talk about the first, the physical allergy. After that, 24 on, alcohol's not a problem anymore. Right? Alcohol was the symptom. Resentment is the number one offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else. From it stem all forms of spiritual disease. We have not only been mentally and physically ill, but we've been spiritually sick. Right? There's three parts of the problem that we talked about. When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically. So the treatment here isn't physical. The treatment isn't even mental. This is a spiritual-based program. The entire treatment here is spiritual. I'm going to just do a little reading of an article here. And it touches on spots on the big book. If anyone wants this article afterwards, I'm just going to put Scott's email up on the board. Just send him an email. He'll email it to you. Right? I didn't have time to print all these out. What does it say about resentment? Resentment comes from the word, the Latin word, sentire, which means to refill. When you put the, when you put, sorry, it comes from the word to feel. And when you put the re in front of it, it means feel again. This includes people, institutions of whom we were angry with. So has anyone ever had the experience where something happened and just kind of mildly annoyed you? And then you went home and you started to think about it. And then you slowed it down. And then you put music to it. And then you made it louder. And then you played it over and over and over again. Right? That's the alcoholic. Right? We refill, we take a feeling and we play it over and over and over again. Right? Where it becomes an obsession. And when it actually didn't even barely bother us in the moment, two days later, like that bastard, right? After all I've done for him, you know, we play it over and over and over again. It's to refill. Right? The big difference between resentment and anger. Anger is a fleeting moment. It's like, I'm angry. Done. Resentment is to refill, replay. It's like a record player over and over and over again. I'm going to do a few readings from the big book here. I'm going to bounce around. So you might have a tough time sticking with me, but I really want to hammer home what the big book is saying here in regards to resentment. Resentment is the number one offender that destroys more alcoholics than anything else. From it stem all forms of spiritual disease. Page 64. It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility. Page 66. It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leans only to unhappiness. Page 66. To the precise extent that we permit these deep resentments, we squander the hours that might have been worthwhile. You wouldn't waste time just spending time thinking, mad at people for like hours, right? That time could have been better spent elsewhere. Who knew? But the alcoholic whose hope is the maintenance and growth of a spiritual experience, this business of resentment is infinitely grave. There's a death threat. We found that it, the business of resentment, is fatal. Page 66. Another death threat. For when harboring such feelings, resentment, we shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the spirit. Kind of what we talked about here, right? When we harbor resentments, the insanity of alcohol returns. Page 66. When we harbor resentment, we drink again. Page 66. For alcoholics, these things, including resentment, are poison. Page 66. We began to see that the world and its people really dominate us. In that state, the wrongdoing of others, fancied or real, had the power to kill. Page 66. Another death threat. We have listed and analyzed our resentments. We've begun to comprehend their futility. Page 70. We have listed and analyzed our resentments. We began to comprehend their fatality. Another death threat. Page 70. We have commenced to see their resentment's terrible destructiveness. Page 70. Never forget that resentment is a deadly hazard to an alcoholic. Page 117. Another death threat. Just a couple more here. The greatest of all of them is the one who is in love. The one who is in love is the one who is in the world. The one who is in the world is the one who is in the world. more here. The greatest enemies of alcoholics are resentment, jealousy, envy, frustration, and fear. Page 145. I cannot afford resentments against anyone because they are the buildup of another drunk. Page 325. And one more. I realized that I had to get rid of resentments for my reprieve was running out. And if I didn't get rid of it, I was going to get drunk. Page 552. Okay. What do you think the big book's saying about resentment? Right? It's fatal. Right? It's saying that alcohol wasn't even my problem anymore. Right? It's making reference to resentments. So we're going to actually do a little bit of writing here. In dealing with resentments, we set them on paper. We listed the people the institutions or principles with whom we are angry. Okay? People are self-explanatory. Mom, dad, friend, spouse. Institutions. Examples are police, college, treatment facilities, IRS. And principles are examples like commitment, marriage, religion, those kind of things. Okay? We ask ourselves why we were angry. In most cases, we found that self-esteem, our pocketbooks, our ambitions, our personal relationships, including sex, were, hurt or threatened. So we were burned up. In our grudge list, we set opposite each name, our injuries, was it our self-esteem, our security, our ambitions, our personal relations, personal or sex relations, which had been interfered with. Okay, we were usually as definite as this example. If you worked with me before, you'll know that I use a worksheet. And I'm a hundred percent okay with that. And the big book says it's okay because it says, we were usually as definite as this example. It doesn't say this is the only way to do it. All right. I use a worksheet. My worksheet that I use reconciles with what we're going to go through here. And I, in particular, I use it for a, for another reason, which we'll get to in a bit. Okay. But I think it's important that everybody knows where to go in the big book so that they don't become dependent upon worksheets and they don't even know where to go in the big book. All right. So, we're actually going to do some writing today. I want everyone to write down a couple of resentments. And we're going to try to get free of some stuff today. And I want everyone to have a clear understanding on how to write this based directly from the big book. We're going to look at the example of Mr. Brown. Okay. I'm resentful at... Mr. Brown. The cause. His attention to my wife. Told my wife about my mistress. Brown might get my job at the office. So, could there be a bigger dick than Mr. Brown? No. Mr. Brown's a jerk. How many words did Mr. Brown get? 19. Okay. I'm going to give a D here as hallmark. Alcoholics have the propensity to write and write and write and write and make this very dramatic. Mr. Brown's a jerk and he got 19 words. There's your benchmark. Okay. And then column three. Column three is multiple choice. There's six options here. If you want, you can start doing some writing in column one. Write down a couple resentments. I'm resentful at... And my recommendation as you're doing inventory work. Again, we're only doing a couple today, so it's not quite as important. But when you're writing inventory, write it down, not across. Okay. Because as you go down, you're not reliving it. Right? What you're supposed to do here is you're just taking a list. Right? So the whole purpose is not to relive it. I find that if you actually work across, you're reliving it. All right? So just work down. You like to tell people chronologically too? Like, you know, kind of the start of your life and then you're going to start working on it. Okay. So you can go back and write from now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can go back as your earliest memories and start doing some writing. Yeah, for sure. And then the other tip on writing inventory work is don't do it really late at night because it can make for a crappy sleep. And again, there's other some more inventory that we'll make reference to here. But if it's disturbing you, good. Right? Means it's working. This whole purpose here is ego deflation at depth. Okay. This is... This isn't really meant to make you feel good. All right? So go ahead and write down who you're resentful at and the cause. And I'll just write down the options here for column three. So, column three, we're... These are the choices. Again, these are right directly from the big book. Right? From our grudge list. Was it our self-esteem? Our security? Our personal relations? Or sex relations? And then it also throws in pride. Were hurt or interfered with? These are the options for column three. Okay? So write down who you're resentful at. The cause. With brevity. Right? Fired me. Stole my wife. Whatever. Right? You got 19 words to deal with because Mr. Brown, that's all he got. And then here are the options for column three. So let's write a couple of those down. Okay. Now there's much more. Okay. all in over how we were going to do this today. I was thinking about maybe splitting up into some groups, but I don't think we're going to have the time to do that. We're actually just going to take an example from the room and work through a resentment and just see if you can make this apply to yourself. I know Dan, we spoke about a current resentment that you got going on. Maybe we'll just walk through it with the room right now. Are you good with that? So, what's that? An alcoholic would take him to the hotel. Yeah, an alcoholic would take him to the hotel. Now he's got a resentment. He can put Dan down now. Okay, so the person is my stepmother. Okay, so I'm going to ask you to write this. Stepmom. Yeah. She will not let me speak to my dad alone without her friend. Okay, I'm not going to write all that down. So she won't let me talk to dad. Won't let you talk to dad? Maybe talk loud because we got some people zooming in. Told my dad to not let me more money. And told me all I do is hurt him. Okay. So with this, you know, you're going to get a little bit of a shock. You're going to get a little bit of a shock. With that said, out of a scale of 1 to 10, where would you classify that resentment right now? Right up there. Like an 8. An 8. Okay. So, and this is where we do things a little bit differently from the book than some of the worksheets you may have been exposed to. Right? So let's go back to the book. So you've got your list. You've got your three columns. Right? And then it's, let's go to page 66. Second, third, fourth paragraph. Sorry, third paragraph. We turn back to the list. Alright? So we turn back to the list for it held the key to the future. We were prepared to look at it from an entirely different angle. We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us. In that state, the wrongdoing of others, fancied or real, had the power to kill. How could we escape? We saw that these resentments must be mastered, but how? We could not wish them away any more than alcohol. And it says, what to do? This was our course. Okay? There's still no column four here. This was our course. We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though they did not, though we did not like their symptoms and the way they disturbed us, they, like ourselves, we were also sick. We're sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended us, we said to ourselves, this is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done. Okay? So let's just go back to the book here. Is it possible that your stepmom is spiritually sick? Okay. Is it possible that your stepmom was acting out of fear? Is it possible that your stepmom wasn't given a guide for life? Yes. Okay. Now what it's saying here is we ask God to help show your stepmom the same tolerance, pity, and patience we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. So, you can actually do the resentment prayer with your stepmom there. So this is a sick instead of going sick man, just put your stepmom in there. And just do that out loud. Where it says this is a sick man? Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is a sick woman. How can I be helpful to her? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done. Okay. So it's an actual resentment prayer. So instead of viewing your stepmom as evil, you've looked at her as spiritually sick, like us. Right? And we want to be understanding. So instead of viewing your stepmom as evil, you've looked at her as spiritually sick. Right? We weren't given a toolbook for life. So perhaps she's spiritually ill. Perhaps she was basing her decisions based on fear. Can you see her as spiritually sick? Yeah. Okay. Your resentment that was in that in eight, where is it now? Four. Four? Okay. Alright. We're not done. Now it says referring to our list again. Referring to our list again. This is column four. Referring to our list again. Putting into our minds the wrongdoings of others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking, and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other's and the other person's entirely. So columns two and three are being disregarded here. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other person's. Right? So column four. Have you harmed your stepmom in any way? Or did you make any mistakes along the way? Yeah. Manipulative. Dishonest. Manipulative, dishonest. Selfish, self-seeking. Can you give any specific examples? Yeah. I wasn't calling to see how they were doing. I was calling for my own selfish means to get money, to use my dad for money to help me out of my financial shit that I put myself into. Yeah. And angry with her because she wouldn't allow me to manipulate him. She cut that tie off so that I couldn't do that to them anymore. Okay. So basically, Yeah. I was using them. Okay. So with that said, you started with a resentment of eight. It went down to a four. Where is it now? Two, one. Okay. Awesome. So this is the whole idea of doing a resentment inventory, right? We're supposed to disregard the other person entirely. In column four there, which is, again, that paragraph says, referring to our list again, does anyone see where it says our part? No. Right? Our part is something that's been brought into the rooms. I don't know where. Maybe from the treatment center. Not sure. Nor does it say our part in any of our language or our literature. You want to see a and a men go wrong? You show up to somebody and say, here, I'm here to own my part. Right? So what's the insinuation? That they got a part too. Right? That's a great way to see a and a men go straight sideways on you. Right? It doesn't say our part anywhere in our literature. It says, where were we at fault? We're supposed to disregard the other person entirely. Okay? Now, not only are we doing the work, but we're trying to prepare everybody as a future sponsor here as well. There are some times where we didn't do anything wrong. And may have experienced some sort of abuse. Right? What I don't ever want to insinuate here is that anyone asked for physical abuse or sexual abuse. Right? But what you can look at in Where's My Mistakes is, did you tell anyone about it? Did you get some outside help? Are you still using that as a reason to justify your drinking? Are you using that as a justification to be honest with your own kids? Or whatever it might be. Right? Of course you didn't ask for that. Of course you didn't. But it might just be a little chunk of dishonesty. It's like, you know what, I never told anyone about this. I never got any outside help. Can you see where that was maybe dishonest? Yeah, I can see where that was a little bit dishonest. Boom. Done. Let's go. Right? Or, I might be still using that as a justification. Right? Yeah. Excuse. Or, I might just have the inability to forgive. Right? It might just simply be that. We gotta get free of these resentments. My experience with Alcoholics Anonymous is victims don't get sober. People that get victimized do. We have to let go of these resentments. Okay? Awesome. Thanks, Dan. Thanks, Dan. Is that, uh, is that helpful? With writing some of these resentments? Yes. Okay. Now, if you look at Excuse me, Mark. Yep. Forgive my ADD brain. Was it work down, not across? Or was it work across, not down? Work down and not across. Okay. Yeah. So that, again, just like a grocery store owner, I'm not there to relive anything. I'm just taking stock. What's here? Right? Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Absolutely. If we look at, uh, page 65, where it affects my, look how often fear is being bracketed there. What's the underlying emotion of every resentment? Fear. Fear. You wanna make me angry? Make me scared. Okay. So, for example, I was just talking to a guy here last week, absolutely angry with his ex-wife for having an affair. Though he couldn't stand her for years, right? What's the underlying issue? What's the underlying fear? He's got, well, not really. He's got an underlying fear of being alone. He's got an underlying fear of abandonment, and he's got an underlying fear of financial insecurity. There was red flags all over the place with this relationship. Right? He ignored them. So, again, he's hanging on. Right? But the underlying, the underlying fear, it was, at least in his case, was fear of being alone, fear of being abandoned, fear of financial insecurity. Right? But he was lashing out, cause he was mad. Right? So, ... ... Let's go... So that's the resentment inventory. Right? Now, I do actually have the worksheets that I use, and I am very, very comfortable with using these worksheets. All the columns are laid out. The information's in each column. I've got a number of them here. We won't, uh, yeah, I won't pass them out right now. Yeah, but if you want to grab one afterwards, um, I'm very comfortable with using this particular worksheet. But again, I think it's important that everybody knows where to go in the big book to find things. So next we're gonna go to a fear inventory. Now, a lot of the people that have worked with me in the past, they've had a fear inventory that's been five columns. The big book is in five columns. It's two. Okay? And again, let's reconcile that. Page 68. ... ... ... We reviewed our fears thoroughly. We put them on paper. Even though we had no resentment in connection with them, we asked ourselves why we had them. Wasn't it because self-reliance failed us? So, again, we put them on paper ... First column, and we asked why we had them. Second column. Fear inventory is two columns. Based upon the language in the big book. ... All right, so I'll do a few examples here. Fear, living sober. Why do I have this fear? Because I have no experience living sober, because I might not have any fun anymore, because alcohol was the only way I could feel okay about myself. All right? Fear of relapsing, because I've relapsed before, because I don't want to let myself down or my family down, and I might die. Fear of confrontation. Why do I have this fear? Because confrontation has hurt me in the past, and because I want others to like me. All right? So there's some examples of some fears. So why doesn't everyone write down a couple of fears? Two columns. Two columns. Now for the next inventory. Is everyone ready to get uncomfortable? I was talking to Les earlier today. Les is coming up on 42 years of sobriety. I asked him how often this topic comes up, and he said, and he said, and he said, He says, pretty much never. Although as a sponsor, and if anyone else in here that has sponsored, one of the number one reasons around relapse or the spiritual malady. Now about sex. All right, bottom of page 68. There's a sex inventory. This is the part where I've been around for almost a decade and I think twice. I remember this topic coming up. Although as a sponsor, this is the stuff that sends people out. So now about sex. We had an overhauling here. Most of us needed an overhauling here, but above all, we tried to be sensible on this question. It's... So easy to get off track. Here we find human opinions running to extremes, observed extremes. One set of voices cry that sex is a lust of our lower nature, a base necessity of procreation. And then we have voices who cry for sex and more sex, who bewail the institution of marriage, who think that most troubles of the race are traceable to sex causes. They think we do not have enough of it or that it isn't the right kind. They see its significance everywhere. One school would allow man no flavor for his fare, and the other would have us all on a straight pepper diet. Right? So what they're saying here is we have two extremes here. Here's the key part. We want to stay out of this controversy. We do not want to be the arbiter of anyone else's sex conduct. That means me as a sponsor, I'm not the judge. Or I'm not the judge of anyone else's... We want to be in the room. Be very careful if you've got... If you're working around some people that are telling you what to do in regards to sex conduct, okay? There are some questions that are going to be asked and we're gonna refer to those questions, alright, but it's important that we're not the arbiter of anyone else's sex conduct. We all have sex problems, we'd hardly be human if we didn't, what can we do about them? one of the things, anyone ever hear don't date for the first year? Yeah? I don't know if anyone knows if that works because no one's ever done it. So, again, that's not from our literature. It's from the treatment centers. It's worked its way in here. It asks us very specific questions around sex. Page 69. And here's the inventory that we do now. Here's your sex inventory. We reviewed our own conduct over the past. So, again, sex might not even be the act of sex. It just might be relations that you had with other people. It might have been just some communication, some texting, some flirtation at work. It could have been a number of things. The sex inventory may not have actually anything to do with the act of sex. It's just a part of the act itself. We reviewed our conduct over the years. So put down maybe a couple or three people that you've had some interactions with over the years. And again, we're going to just keep this short. Questions we'll do after, okay? It looks like you're ready to ask something. I can tell it's on the tip of your tongue. Yeah. Yeah. We reviewed our own conduct over the years. Over the past. So let's write down a few names. Now, here's what it's asking us. It's not saying, was it weird? Was it kinky? How often did it happen? It's not asking any of that. Right? It says, was it selfish? Dishonest? Inconsiderate? Whom had we hurt? Did we unjustifiably arouse jealousy? That's a key word. I'm not going to go into that. Did we unjustifiably? Just because somebody gets jealous might not be my problem. Right? Unjustifiably means went out of my way to make them jealous. Just because someone gets jealous is actually not my issue. But if I went out of my way to make them jealous, it is. Did we unjustifiably arouse jealous, suspicion, or bitterness? Where were we at fault? We got this all down on paper and looked at it. So let's write down maybe two or three people that you've had interactions with. And the questions are, was it selfish? Was it dishonest? Inconsiderate? Whom had we hurt? Did we unjustifiably arouse jealousy, suspicion, or bitterness? Again, the worksheet tells you that there's no way to know that someone is jealous or not. And so the question is, did we unjustifiably arouse jealousy, suspicion, or bitterness? The worksheet that I use, all of this is already laid out and the questions are already being asked. I like the idea of the worksheet and again, I'm going to really emphasize why here in a minute because there's a whole group of people being left out here. What's up, Neil? It's killing you. What do you mean? Sorry? Oh, and then just leave it blank. Yeah, you're good. Give yourself a high five. And again, this may just have to do with did I flirt with somebody to get my way? Right? Did I have some communication with somebody to steer them in a way that I wanted to steer them? This has very little to do with the act of sex. Did I withhold sex in order to control somebody? This is one of those things that better be an ass. A few people nodding. Right? This is about selfishness. So here's the deal with and as you're doing the sex inventory here and the sex ideal, what it says here is we're trying to shape our future sex life here. We're trying to shape our sane and sound future sex life. My experience with Alcoholics Anonymous and doing this work is that you might end up being a porn star and you might end up being a priest. Both are okay. Right? It doesn't say anything other than was it selfish? So when you're shaping your sane sound sex idea don't try to impress anyone else with things. Be honest with yourself. What are you actually looking for with your sane sound sex life? Right? Again, you might end up being a porn star, you might end up being a priest. Pretty good chance it's going to be somewhere in between. Right? But the questions that are being asked here as you're doing that is was it dishonest? Did I harm anybody? Has anyone else been hurt? Those are the questions. If you've got two consenting adults agreeing being honest with each other, hey, fill your boots. Right? We are not to be the arbiter of anyone else's sex conduct. Alright? So again, let's kind of hammer that home. Bottom of page 69. Your sponsor alone can judge your sex situation. Oh wait. That's not what it says. It says God alone can judge your sex situation. Okay? Counsel with others. Is often desirable. But we let God be the final judge. That means I can go talk to other people about this, including my sponsor, but I'm allowing God to be the final judge. Right? Some people have some very, very different ideas when it comes to this. Right? Straight pepper diet or flavor for their fare. Right? So it's saying that God's the final judge, but the questions that I'm being asked here is was it selfish? Did anyone get hurt? Okay? Those are the key parts here. What were my intentions? Yeah. Were you trying to manipulate? Right? Did you ever promise, you know, even if it's a one night stand, did you promise that there was going to be a future with this person? You know? Those are the kind of things that go down here. Okay. So, how are we doing on time? Okay. Let me try and hammer this through in the next 30 minutes. So, those are the three inventories. Okay? I've got a resentment inventory, which is the fatal. The book tells me that over and over. I've got to be free from the resentments. When I'm resentful, there's likely a fear, an underlying fear. Okay? And then I'm also revisiting my sex conduct over the years. There's an entire group of people that's not being addressed here. This is why I like to work from the worksheet that I use and not exactly the big book. The big book touches on it and I'll show where. But there's an entire group of people that's not making the inventory. Any guesses who? The people I've harmed, but not the people I don't have a resentment attached to. 100%. Right? Where are they? Where are the innocent people? Where's the guy that I might have egged his house with no resentment? Where is somebody that I might have stolen from? There wasn't an attached resentment there. Right? Kids. You know? The fallout. There's an entire group of people here. I didn't have a resentment towards them, but they've been harmed. Right? So that I actually, if I'm following the book here, there's a fourth inventory. And I just call that harms. And again, where I get this from is over on page 76. Third paragraph. We're talking about, it's talking about step eight. Now we need more action without which we find that faith without works dead. We look at steps eight and nine. We have a list of all persons we have harmed and whom we're willing to make amends. We made it when we took inventory. Well, I don't remember making taking it when we took inventory with all the people that, the innocent people that I've harmed. I didn't have any resentment towards them. So the fourth inventory is a harms. Just call it harms. And it's all those, and it can just be two columns. The person and how I harmed them. These are the ones that it's, there's not sex conduct involved. And there's no resentment involved. This could be children that were affected by my drinking. It could be someone that, you know, that I stole from. Just a random stranger that I stole from. There's no resentment there. Mm. So write down a couple people that that belong on there. And I'm just gonna touch on one more thing in regards to the sex inventory. And this could really apply to pretty much anything. Over on page seventy. Second paragraph. To sum up about sex, we earnestly pray for the right ideal. Right? That same sound sex ideal. For guidance in each questionable situation. For sanity and for the strength to do it, to do the right thing. Here's the key part. If sex is very troublesome, we throw ourselves the harder into helping others. We think of their needs and work for them. This takes us out of ourselves. It quiets the imperious urge when to yield would mean heartache. And again, it's not just sex. It's like relationships. Sure. Relationships. Absolutely. You want to get over a broken heart? Go work with a newcomer. Right? It's the best medicine. It tells us over and over and over here. Right? Or if sex in general is very troublesome, or whatever it might be. Right? This whole program makes reference over and over and over again to work with others. Is there any... Is there any... And again, you may have done this differently in the past. It says right at the beginning, as definite as this example. It doesn't say this is the only way to do it. I have the worksheets that I use here. Anyone that I've worked with in the room will already have them. The worksheets that I use here, I like the worksheets that I have because it incorporates the innocent. Right? That we talked about that weren't already addressed in those harms. In those inventories. This is our course. And we continue to do the writing until everything gets put down on paper. Does... We got about a half hour, maybe about 20 minutes to do. Does everyone... Do you want to just pile right through this? Or do you guys want a break? Okay, seven minutes. . . . We'll just get started here again, everybody. Hello? . So, I'm just going to share my experience on doing a fifth step. Alright, so... What's it say there? Can someone read it? Fifth step there? . . So it says to God and another human being... It doesn't say your sponsor. Okay? Doesn't have to be your sponsor. Um, and I'm just going to go off script here and just share some experience that I have with step five. Not a whole bunch of reference to the book here. Um... I do believe it's important to share it with a sponsor because a sponsor knows what we're trying to do here. It knows the purpose of a step five that we're trying to drill down into the character defects or the blocks. Now, with that said, I've actually done my main fifth step with a pastor in the program. So, again, what it says in here is a closed mouth individual. Now, if somebody goes and if I'm sponsoring them and they want it, put it this way. It's about the protege. The sponsee, not me. I want to send them somewhere where they can be 100% honest. And sometimes a pastor or a psychologist might be bound and protected by, you know, that they can't repeat certain things. Or I've had some experience in the past where they'll do a bulk of it with me and there's a couple other things that they're just like, hey, I just can't tell you a couple, right? You know? So there's kind of two hats that I'm wearing here. One is if I'm listening to a fifth step as a sponsor. And one is if I'm a protege and doing a fifth step. If anyone that I'm working with does a fifth step with a pastor or a psychologist, I always do a follow-up session with them to drill it down into the character defects. Because that doesn't always happen if they're sitting with a pastor or a priest. Right? Right. Right. Right. Right. In my experience, a pastor, Greg, right, he did like 60 step fives in at least 60. A bunch of you in here, I know that done one, Pastor Greg, right? Did an amazing job. You know, but there would always be a follow-up on drilling down into character defects. Right? As a sponsor, if you can't keep your mouth shut, you shouldn't be doing fifth steps. You got no business doing fifth steps. zero that doesn't mean you can't be helpful in this program elsewhere but you already know if you are a big mouth or not right so in my eyes it's the absolute worst thing that you can do in Alcoholics Anonymous is repeat what you've heard in a fifth step right and that includes pillow talk that includes your girlfriend your spouse whatever it might be okay it's the most sacred part of Alcoholics Anonymous is this idea of around fifth steps okay now I got hammered on a few years ago with one what I tell people before we get started and then I get them allow them to to make the choice just like listen you can tell me absolutely anything unless there is a current crime going on with a kid what do you want to do right and if there is a current if you want to go see a pastor then by all means go see a pastor but that's that's my criteria if there's a current crime going on with a kid I can't promise you I'm not going to go to the cops right anything else I'm good with I've heard I was just going to agree oh okay I've been whenever I'm doing fifth step I lay it out I you can tell me anything you can tell me anything but just know that if you tell me that you're going to hurt somebody if you're going to hurt yourself or if you're if they're going to hurt somebody like you're going to hurt another person you're going to hurt somebody they're trying to say something or you know they're going to hurt somebody or you know they're going to do something to! Um so I think that that was about um for us to kind of personally I don't like no human takeaway okay not giving heritage back because that to me is it's not just io,com they're saving place? Yes thought �ия Well I'll always haven't told it's normal to take what we're doing but it's aierenate now I'm very concerned about this person who is standing next to me. I will not tell them what you said to me, but I'll stay with them. Yeah, 100%, and that's what I'll say to anyone before I get started as well. It's really the only thing that I'm not okay with, that I just can't be okay with. Now, I've also heard, I've listened to probably the better part of 105 Steps. I don't think there's anything I haven't heard. Really, there's not. I got rocked a few years ago with a big one, and this person's not from here. Nobody knows who he is, but I got rocked with one. I'm not going to say what it was, but it was a doozy, right? And I'm like, I was kind of torn, right? I'm like, I don't know what to do with this. And I called my sponsor out in Texas. I'm like, I don't, you know, I'm feeling a little bit. I'm torn here. And he's like, Mark, he says, just to make it clear to you that if you ever repeat anything that you've heard in a fifth step, you've rendered yourself officially useless in this program. Like, ooh, right? It kind of hits you right here. I'm like, okay, you know? And honestly, it was never mine to own. No, I worked through this person. There was a way to make an amend, and it didn't have to do with a current crime going on with a child, right? It just had to do with something else. And again, you know, I've been able to listen to a number of them. What I do now when I'm listening to fifth steps, I usually throw out something really dark and ugly about myself right away, right? Now it's opened the door for trust, right? Because that person, they're still like, I don't know, right? You know, they're holding on to some darkness in there. And if I can share something dark and ugly about myself right away, they'll look at you like, well, I'm not as bad as you. Here it is, right? You know? And there's a really high level of establishment of trust right away. You know, I remember working with a guy out of Calgary, and he was a really, really big, tough, tough guy, right? And he shared a full, honest fifth step. There was a lot of violence there. And then afterwards, he's looking at me like he might have to kill me, right? He's giving me that funny look. I'm like, oh. So, you know, I shared some stuff about me, and he's like, okay, we're good, right? So, you know. There's something very... There's some magic that can happen with listening to a fifth step and sharing back and forth. Now, when I listen to a fifth step, I tell them what my job is. My job is not a counselor. I am not a professional. I'm here as a conduit between you and God or you and your higher power. I'm going to be doing some writing, and I'm going to be interjecting maybe at times when I feel it necessary. Right? So, if a person I can tell they're tangled up. I'm telling something, I may share something about myself. Right? Just to kind of make that establishment of trust. I'm very quiet during a fifth step. I'm not saying a whole pile. What I'm usually doing is I'm writing. I've got a list that says character defects, and I'm writing down envy, lust, selfishness, right? Codependence, fear, whatever. I'm listening to their fifth step, and I'm writing down their blocks, their character defects. As the book would have it. When we're done, and I'm also writing down some of the men's that they're going to have to make. Right? But the main purpose is, this again, this is how I was taught and how I do it. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm writing down the character defects, and actually at the end of the fifth step, I'll take this and I'll spin it back to them. And I'll say, okay, based upon what you've just read to me, here are your blocks. Here are your character defects. And it's kind of like this little shot, right? And they're like, oh. Fear, anger, lust, selfishness, right? Boom, boom, boom. All these different things. And I'm like, do you disagree with any of them? And they never do, because it's their list. Right? Again, this is about ego deflation at depth. Now, I'm going to reference the big book, and I'm going to also offer up what I think is the number one reason for relapse. Okay? So over on page 72. And this is coming purely as an experience. Okay? So this is a lot of experience with someone that's listened to a lot of fifth steps. Last paragraph about halfway down, where it says the best reason first. Does anyone see that? The best reason first. If we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking. Time after time, newcomers have tried to keep to themselves certain facts about their lives, trying to avoid this humbling experience. They've turned to easier methods. Almost invariably, they got drunk. Having persevered with the rest of the program, they wondered why they fell. We think the reason is that they never completed their housecleaning. They took inventory, all right. Here's the key part. But they hung on to some of the worst items in stock. They only thought they'd lost their egoism and fear. They only thought they'd humbled themselves. But they had not learned enough of humility, fearlessness, and honesty in the sense we find it necessary until they told someone else all of their life story. So we're done with fifth step. Right? I've got the character defects written down. And what I'll say to anyone I'm working with now, it's like, okay, good job. It was quite thorough. You know, there's a lot of work that just went into this. But I need to ask you a question. Is there something that you're hanging on to that you plan on taking to your grave? And it can just be a simple yes or no. Right? About half the time, it's yes. Right? After all. After all this time we just spent together. After all this writing they just did. It's like, okay, what do you want to do? You're right here right now. Want me to set you up with a path? What do you want to do? Right? My experience is you're probably going to get drunk again. My experience with this is I did about a 95% fifth step. I hung on to about two or three of the uglies. And the tricky part was I felt good. Right? It bought me some time. So I started to feel really, really wonderful. And then after about two or three months, I got that it. Right? That little ugly feeling. The restlessness. The irritability. The discontented. Sober. I'm like, okay, I know what this is. Right? There's two uglies that I didn't share. And I wrote them down and I drove. I went and did it with Pastor Greg. And I'm driving over there like I'm hanging on to some secret CIA document. Right? That no one's ever seen or heard before. You know? And I shared them with them that day. And then I become free. Right? And it was shortly after that I became a recovered alcoholic. The obsession was removed. It's never come back since then. Has anyone had that experience where they hung on to something from their fifth step? A period of time went by. Dan, you want to share about that? Sure. Yeah. It was... Maybe loud so because we got some people on the set. It was two weeks after you and I completed the steps. And I knew there was some sexual conduct that I was holding on to that I didn't want to share with you. But I was like, okay, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. And I didn't want to share with you because I looked up to you a lot and I didn't want you to think that way of me. And like it says at the bottom of 65, we thought, look back through our lives, nothing counted but thoroughness and honesty. And you did give me that chance to say it. You said that to me and I bide. Right? And I said, no, there was nothing else. And two weeks later, I was going up north and I picked up and drank. Called you right away and found out that I was holding on to some stuff. And then I didn't... I still didn't feel comfortable talking to you about it. So I went to Pastor Greg to... Because it was something I knew I was never going to see again. Right? So I just was able to get it out. And then, yeah, then the freedom was there and the obsession was lifted. And then 10 months later, again, I was padding the expense account and got drunk again because I wasn't sharing that with you and didn't tell anybody. I wasn't honest. I didn't call anybody about doing my 10th step and 11th step. So holding on to dishonesty is what it's always led to for me is a big part of my life. And I think that's what I'm trying to do. I think that's what I'm trying to do. I think that's what I'm trying to do. I think that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks, John. In sponsoring a lot of people, that's my experience around the number one reason for relapse or the number one reason for the spiritual malady coming back. Again, you may not pick up, but you may not pick up the number one reason for the spiritual malady coming back. It's the most important thing. The most important thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know if this is a very difficult thing to do, but you hear the term dry drunk, right? Or that, the person's like, here, take a drink. It'll be a public service for everybody because they're just so tough to be around, you know? There's generally a chunk of dishonesty in their life. There's something else going on, you know? This idea of honesty is just so, so, so important. So, any questions around that? Okay. It tells me what to do after doing a fifth step. Over on page 75. We'll probably wrap it up here in about five minutes or so. So this is after doing the fifth step. You've got your list of character defects. Bottom of page 75. Returning home, we find a place where we can be quiet for an hour. Carefully reviewing what we have done. Here's an action item now, right? We thank God from the bottom of our heart that we now know him better. Taking this book down from the shelf, we turn to the page which contains the first, sorry, contains the 12 steps. Carefully reading the first five proposals, the first five steps. We ask if we've omitted anything. For were we building an arch through which we will walk a free man at last? Is our work solid so far? Are the stones properly in place? Have we skimped on the cement put into the foundation? Have we tried to make mortar? Out of sand? Okay, so that's an action. We go home, we chill out, relax for one hour. We thank God from the bottom of our heart that we now know him better. Because this is basically the foundation now for the rest of the steps. So, how long minimum do we have to wait to do a sixth step? One hour. Right? We can do a step. Step six, one hour later. It doesn't say take your time. If anything, that's almost cruel and unusual punishment is that you've just done a fifth step. You've got a list of character defects and now you're going to hang on to them before you ask God to remove them? Right? One hour. What I normally do is it's usually I work with somebody we're trying to do it the following day. Right? Sometimes it's that same day if the schedule is time permit. Right? Sometimes it's that same day. But the book's saying one hour later and we're going into a sixth step. We won't do six and seven today. We'll save that for the next session. Okay? If you are struggling and in and out of these rooms and you've done some fifth step, please revisit what we've talked about today. Especially this idea of honesty. Okay? I've just seen it over and over and over again. Or if some other stuff starts popping up again where this isn't an AA meeting. So we can... You know, we can get outside of our singleness of purpose. See a lot of other addictions start popping up. You know? This idea of little chunks of dishonesty in our lives. If you have... There's something you're hanging on to. We'll all line up single file and see the pastor here. Do you think? No pressure. No pressure. Apparently not. No pressure. There is a little bit of pressure. But you can do it. How often do you use a step five? That's a good question. So I come from a lineage. We do multiple step fives. You'll see some old timers around here. They'll pound the table and pound their fist. You only have to do it once and then it's just 10, 11. If I did 10 and 11 perfectly, I would never have to do another fifth step. I try to do one a year. Me personally. I try to do it right around my birthday because other stuff does build up. I do live in steps 10 and 11. But I try to do one a year. I try to do one fifth step per year. I've done multiple, multiple fifth steps. You will see some old timers around here. They'll pound the table and say, you only have to do it once. I'm like, well, that's true if you did 10 and 11 perfectly. I don't. I don't do 10 and 11 perfectly. And my experience with this is that I've never seen any harm. Zero. I've seen nothing but good come from doing additional fifth steps. Nothing but good. Bryce. So he's doing. Are you doing anything from redo it or are you just doing this last year? Just current. Any new stuff? Any new stuff. Yeah. I don't need to redo the entire thing. So when I do an additional fifth step, I'm just doing what I didn't share on the last one. Anything current. Like one to 12 or are you doing like a four and a five? Just a four and a five. Yeah. I did a step study just this winter. And it was a group setting. And I was. Yeah. So when I do a fifth step now, it's not overly long. Because I've already shared all the old stuff. Right. The real dark uglies have already been put out there. When I do one now, I said, it's just whatever's current over that last 12 months. Sometimes again, when I share, when I call my sponsor out in Texas, there's usually two things I'm calling for. It's me to share a piece of inventory. Right. Or it's me looking for some direction on how to work with a newcomer on a, on a tricky event. I don't call. I don't call him and say, I'm sad today. That won't go well. Trust me. Right. He always just says, where are you in the circle and the triangle? Are you working with newcomers? When's the last time you've been to a meeting? Where are you at in prayer and meditation? Where are you at with your amends? Right. Where are you at in the 12 steps? My contact with my sponsor is usually that I got a little chunk of inventory to read. Or, hey, this guy, you know, did this. This is new ground for me. How do we. How do we make this right? How do we do this? Amends. Right. I would really highly. And we'll talk about this in the next session. Right. You know, this is where I think it's so important that you have a sponsor that has a sponsor that has a sponsor. Right. So that you can lean on that lineage for some experience, especially when we get into somebody's tricky amends. He indicated for me is that all the assholes came back to town and they might drive. Yeah. They might need another spot. Checking inventory. So and that's a good point. I really. I truly believe this to be the illness or the disease of perception. Right. That when I again, all the hostiles come back to town when I start taking everyone else's inventory and I'm all twisted up. I'm usually not in the circle in the triangle. Right. I can get along with people pretty good when I'm doing this program. You know, boy, I'm not very pleasant to be around when I'm not sober. Right. I'm cranky, sober. I'm dry. I'm all drunk. I'm ready to be drunk. I'm ready. Okay. Tiny bit over. Oh, just the middle of page 75. Yeah. You're struggling with step 5 and you're kind of like, I don't know if I want to go down this road type of thing. There's some promises here. Right. I mean, we're self centered. That's our deal. Right. So what's in it for me? I'm all 75. Once we've taken the step with holding nothing, we're delighted. We can look the world in the eye. We can be alone in perfect peace and ease. Our fears fall from us. We begin to feel the nearness of our creator. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But now we begin to have a spiritual experience. The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared and will often come strongly. We feel we're on the broad highway walking hand in hand with the spirit of the universe. Yeah. I mean, those are, what more do you want? Yeah. Right? Isn't that why we came here in the first place? So you often hear the promises in step nine. Those are step nine promises. Every step has promises. And, I mean, sign me up. Right? Those are, why wouldn't you do that? You know, you're dead anyways. Right? You know, alcohol and drugs are killing me. Why wouldn't I do that? Again, I really want to emphasize that. A problem with any step is a step one problem. You don't believe to your innermost self you're dying from a fatal, progressive, and chronic illness. If you believe that, you will do, you'll find God. You'll try God. You'll do a four. You'll do a five. You'll be honest. Right? If you truly believe you're dying from a progressive, fatal illness. If you don't think you're one of us, right, you're probably going to half-ass it. You know? And with some people, you can get away with that. Right? There's a difference between the problem drinker and the real alcoholic. A problem drinker can maybe cut some corners. I can't. You know? Me personally, I can't. Why do I do all this? I like the effect it produces. Just like I like the effect that alcohol and drugs used to produce when it worked. It quit working. I can't. I needed to find a sufficient substitute. Me just not drinking is not a sufficient substitute. Right? I have to work. I have to work this program. I need to find something else that makes me feel good. It's why I do what I do. And it's why I know a lot of you do what you do. We like it for the effect. Yeah. Access to power. Lack of power is a dilemma. Right? Awesome. So anyone that wants any of the handouts or the readings, I did that resentment article. There's also where to find the steps. If anyone, what we did last time, I had a bunch of people write down numbers and send them just send Scott an email and he'll send you the articles. He'll email you the articles. Okay. Scott at gem testing. Dot. CA. If anyone on zoom wants it as well. Scott at gem testing. Dot. CA. And he will fire off those articles to you. So that's it. Thanks. Thanks. All right.