Meeting Etiquette and Sponsorship – 12 Step Workshop – Part 4 of 5 – Debbie D.

Yeah. Ruby? Debbie, I wanted to see if you could share with everybody else that has not been sponsored by you how you pass on how to behave in meetings, how to dress, that sort of thing, what kind of behavior we should take to the meeting. I know what that looks like, but maybe some people don't. Right. Well, thanks, Ruby, for asking about that. I do have, there is no AA meeting etiquette book. I wish there had been for me when I came in. That would have been helpful. But through the years and my experience and guidance of the people ahead of me, there's some things that I have found that I find are a part of membership for me. And things like, of course, arriving at the meeting early. I mean, in our area there's a really cute little saying called the 20-20 club. That means get there at least 20 minutes early, stay at least 30 minutes. In my case, in my home group, I always get there about 45 minutes early and there's plenty of people there. To have a commitment in your home group to work the room. And I'm not just talking, hi, how are you? Hi, how Are you? Hi, How are you because that doesn't mean anything. Just don't do it if that's all you're going to do. if you want to know how they're doing stop and give them the body language of interest otherwise I don't do it I don' t really want to know how that many people are doing anyway so I just say hi Keith it's great to see you tonight but I give him eye contact and a stop and then I move on hey Kelly glad you're here now I sponsor Kelly so I'm going to ask her not how are you because that becomes again people don't even say no they've said it and then they'll say to me twice, so hi, how are you? You know, I haven't changed since five seconds ago. The point is they never heard my answer to begin with. Nails on the chalkboard in my world. So Kelly, how Are Things Going For You? Then I give the physical body language of stopping and listening. I'm not all over here like this, and hi, how are ya? Fine, I'm doing great. Suicidal, I got this guy that he calls me sponsor you know he started out a little eager took him through the steps not much service work and meetings starting to drop off and sometimes I wish he'd just fire me as a sponsor because it's just a pain in the ass but he'll call me you know he'll still call once in a while there's no commitment to call even though we had made that commitment and he's broken that he'll still call her once in a while and tell me about his problems and I'll try to share my experience with him but there's no commitment from him any tired urine have you ever fired anybody or just let them fire you that's a good question let me just finish this other question first about meeting etiquette and stuff and then I'll answer that so also give the respect to the meeting leave your phone in your car or somewhere during the meeting. I don't care if it's buzzing all night long unless you're waiting for a heart transplant, do not look at that phone. Don't text. It's so rude. It's such a shame. It's just so distracting. And you and the people around you have just missed that much of the meeting? Do you want to be responsible for them missing what might have been a life-changing thing? I've had too many one-liners that have changed my life and I don'T want to create that for anybody else. when I know in advance that I'm supposed to speak or do anything from a podium representing AA I wear a skirt or a dress I choose to also wear a shirt or a address at my home group now that one I have laxed on a little bit the gals can wear slacks but no hats, no ball caps in meetings laughter now this is a very informal thing, but if this was a regular AA meeting, that cap would never have been on and he knows that. No ball caps in meetings. We are not at the ball game. Show a respect. Think about what would you do if you went to a wedding? Or maybe if you go to church, would you go to church like that? Have that respect. What kind of an attraction am I? A lot of times that new person only sees. they don't hear that much it's foggy and it's a foreign language but they see where are the alcoholics by the way because we don't look like them if we you know take a little bit of time for the gals, for me to put my makeup on and put my hair together and stuff like that lipsticks in the right place boy, that's a that's nice people appreciate and step up into something, give them something to shoot for instead of, well they look like me we do in one way and we don't in another let's give some inspiration that's what they're looking for is some hope for a different life so respect to the sponsor keep your commitments try to go about it in a cheerful attitude these are some of the things, always make a contribution in the seventh tradition you know you're going to a meeting have something to put in there i'm not going to tell you how much but if you can break the buck barrier because 36 years ago i threw a buck in the basket i better be throwing something more in right now if i'm walking in with one of these i had better put at least this much in let me tell you there's nothing that irritates me more than a big star bucks and a buck not if I'm sponsoring you I don't want to see that you're your own police are you trying to get away with something you're trying to shorten something trying to minimize something you know listen to your own conscience listen to you listen to our own guides your own God as far as your question Richard about have I ever let people go I choose to use the word let them go or they move on versus fired because they never hired me to begin with I've never been paid a dime to sponsor I wish, I mean I wish I could charge but I look at it as a fluid relationship in the sense of yes it's a commitment until it no longer is and then it moves on and they and I have had an engagement as long as I was useful to them and they taught me and they moved on to a new teacher which opened up the door for someone else to come into my world. So we just move on. It also is just much more palatable to me. Secondly, I really feel blessed that I have really some great men and women. I sponsor two men in my group and the majority of them are really active. I have a couple that our relationship just doesn't seem to be building. It seems to be kind of getting less and less. I have sometimes had the final conversation of maybe we should just adjust our relationship from sponsorship to a friendship, one that's friendly. And I say that very specifically, when that's friendly because I hope to see them in meetings but I'm not really feeling very useful to them they don't take suggestions they minimize their meetings they miss their calls we seem to have this resistance it doesn't seem to be a unit anymore it seems to be two factions those end of the magnets and I don't want that in a relationship with someone so yes, I have sometimes you get asked what about when people relapse each person I work with is different in that one gal I know I know she was trying but in a three to four month period of time she had nine relapses and she said please, please don't, in her words, fire me. And I said, let me put it to you this way. I'm good for one more. And then I'm done. So we have identified in your case on more than one occasion and you've agreed. When you start your day off with prayer and meditation you go to your business dinner that night and you stay sober because you also have gone to the bathroom when you got to the restaurant You order Diet Coke right off the bat. You've gone in to pray. You have put your protection plan in place. But you have no grace period because the very next day when you don't see your prayer and meditation and you don' t pray in the bathroom at the business meeting dinner, you drink. So we know the solution. You know the resolution. You choose not to take the actions. I have not held the good stuff till now. It hasn' t arrived yet. Okay, now I'll let you in on the secret of sobriety. no you've gotten it all that i could give you so with that i've and and so three weeks later she relapsed again and she said please don't let me go i said i have to for a couple reasons number one my personal integrity i did not say that as an ultimatum or to shake you up i said that is the fact that I have to follow through, that there are consequences to our actions. Number two, if I back down on what I said, why would you believe anything else I'm going to say? I've already changed it. It won't have any meaning of reality if I don't follow through. We were very clear three weeks ago where this was. so I hope that you find someone that you can work with that you'll find that surrender within yourself and a willingness I'm happy to report this was a couple years ago or so that if she's still sober she probably has about 7-8 months she just wasn't ready and I couldn't make her ready and I wasn't going to do it for her but I walked through the tools repetitively I can't do them for her I know we're at 11.31 I know Keith has to go and some other folks for Bellflower so I know if you've got to go, you've gotta go I love you so real quick we'll take a couple more questions I mean I could be here all day Last Thursday I went to a step study and I thought, God is in the book and during the meeting it was a 12 and 12 step study we read the 12 steps, that's the last chapter before you get to the principle, and then there was like a discussion afterwards and we went around and it was my turn and I was talking and the lady cut me off. One lady cut me off and she said, Richard, this isn't a traditional AA meeting and I was kind of puzzled but she said well we're going to move on to the next person. Then I was hurt and resentful for her because she cut me off and she was rude during the meeting and then after the meeting I asked the person that brought me to the meeting who that lady was and he said well she's the guru and then I got a sense that this lady was not happy with AA as a structure and finally set up her own type of structure and I was just wondering, was I right on that assumption? Was that meeting helpful to me or was it hurtful to me? I don't know. I don' t know. Hold on just one second. Well, if you've never been to that meeting before, it's a different format. Sometimes in meetings I know that people can talk too long or they can talk off topic or whatever. I wasn't there so I don't know what happened for you, but there are some who are outspoken and we move on. Well, that was obviously that one person's opinion of how they viewed her. Whether she felt that way or others felt that way, that wasn't that one person's opinion. Yeah. So we pray for them. What happens when somebody leaves their sponsor and then they go and then they want to come back? What do you do with them? You start them again Oh, that's a good question. What do I do when I sponsor someone, they leave and they come back? Well, we have a really good review of what is different. Again, just like any old relationship, there was something that caused them to move on. What was it? What is different now? Why are you coming back to me? I haven't changed, really. I'm still the same sponsor. What would be different? I don't take everybody back. No, that's not an automatic. In some cases, they had faded out of AA. And my attitude is you do need to prove to me your commitment because you know that's what I'm all about. I need to see you in meetings. I need to see you make phone calls and then we'll talk about it there's not a guarantee that I take people back you need to prove to me your commitment because I'm not interested in part time membership what about people who come up to newcomers and say okay you don't have a sponsor I'm going to be your sponsor think about that sometimes that works sometimes that doesn't having someone's better, but then again, who's making the approach? Worst case, it'll get them to get a different sponsor. We know the importance to be very strong in having a sponsor, but I've never done that. I've heard of it. I don't say that to the gals I sponsor. Yeah. Now, you don't have to be a sponsor to offer to take someone through the 12 steps. You can introduce yourself to any... make friends with any new person. Do you have a sponsor? No. Would you like someone to walk you through the12stepsofrecovery? I'd be happy to do that. Oftentimes, that will, of course, lead into being asked to be the sponsor. But we don't... I always encourage people who aren't sponsoring anybody or very few, you need the practice ask someone if you can take them through the steps that have never been through it you don't have to be the official title by any means carrying the message is carrying the message I have a follow up question to sponsoring based on something I said earlier when you ask your sponsors to find a way to give back does that in your mind include sponsoring others preferably that's something because I know the benefit of that I have in sponsorship is I'm not thinking about me I'm thinking about them and how I can be useful and helpful to them I wonder how their day is going today I know they were having this trouble or that trouble it gets me out of me it's a great gift but that might not always be possible for whatever reason find some way just to get out of the rut of these are the meetings I go to, got her done yeah it's a dangerous attitude that I've had when I was four to six years sober got her down oh this has been so fun so thank you I think we're done with questions and sorry we couldn't pray out with the fellows I do have one more question what do you do our sponsors always have told me do what I do, watch what I do, stay as busy as I do. And I've been blessed with some sponsors that have been very active. But I've also had sponsors especially in the beginning of my Friday who didn't really do anything else and there came a time when you know what I'm thinking to myself, I'm doing more than this guy's doing. What do you do in a case like that? I have been blessed too that the three sponsors that I've had have been very active in service and working with others and meetings we're all responsible for our recovery I am going to get out of it what I put into it if I put in half measures I will start to fade from that sunlight I don't know, maybe that's all they need to do for the sunlight I need to be able to do a lot the relationship I have with God is up to me the relationship I have with the group is up to me the relationship I have with my sponsor is up to me regular contact in all those areas is important you know Millie is in five meetings a week service commitments in all of them and her service experience outside of that has been in other areas than I have been in. She's been involved with getting women's banquets and women's weekends and stuff like that going where I've been in others service, HNI and general service and things like that. Sharing, talking, workshops. We've all found where we serve well. What I look for at this point in my life isn't necessarily someone who's busier than me, although I understand the intellect about it. I'm looking for living as a way of life. Do you live this as away of life? And that's what I'm going toward because I still think and I still feel and I just want to straighten people out. And she helps me from doing that in the inappropriate fashion and to have it just simply come from the roads of alcoholics' anonymous legacies. So there'll come a day when she probably will slow down a little bit just due to age. But I'll tell you, it doesn't look like it's soon. Yeah. Any other questions? Real quick, there's a real fine line when you talked about being helpful and being a friend and, you know, I see a lot of sponsors where they're real stern with their sponsors and some of them are like way too nice. I heard you say to be supportive and be friendly and helpful and maybe not the other little... I mean, how could... How can you be more stern with them? I don't find any need for like yelling or screaming or anything like that but I'm real clear I can create a firmness in my voice that indicates I mean business and I think that if that message isn't conveyed then I'm not going to get any message across I'm here to guide as best as I can in a friendly, kind, loving manner I'm not here to judge you because I've already done all those things that you're doing. But I want you to know you don't have to keep living this way anymore if you don'T want to. If you're in a bunch of pain or a bunch OF trouble within yourself, there is a solution if you'RE interested. Let's address it, but I can't force anybody to get there. It can just be that attraction. And friendly, I don'T have to hammer anybody, beat them up verbally or attack them verbally. Sometimes I have needed to say, this question you have brought to me so many times, I don't have a new answer. You need to either start writing down what I've been sharing with you or doing something to remember to be responsible about it. I mean, I can't tell you this every single day for two weeks, the same answer. There isn't anything new. So either pay attention or don't bring this up to me. I mean, sometimes I've been that hard, stern, clear, whatever. But I'm all about living in the solution. I will not decorate the problem. I will have compassion for your problem, but I don't engage in it. Well, have you tried this? Have you tried that? I mean I might say, have You looked into this? Have You looked in to that? And the answers are yes or no. If they're no, well then perhaps you might want to. But I am not there to fix the problem I wish so many times I have some gals with severe health issues oh golly I wish I had a magic wand to make that go away because I empathize with the pain that they go through and the suffering that they have I have one gal who's just got a tremendous ugly ongoing lawsuit custody battle that I wish i could do something about and there's nothing, nothing I can do except let's just keep on our prayers I don't know what's in store for you and work in that direction just keep her grounded in Alcoholics Anonymous I can get frustrated for what's happening in their life but I can't fix it how about meds ok meds that's often a question too ok I first and foremost need to know I am not a doctor can you ask him real quick at the beginning when we talk at the very first time I ask him are you on any kind of medication just to help me understand who you are and where you're coming from kind of tone and question if the answer is no end of question obviously if the answers yes what are you on, what's their purpose how long does it help Have you ever talked to your doctor about getting off of them? Especially if they're antidepressants. Because so many in our area, the minute they walk into treatment, they walk out with a prescription for antideressants. And in my day, you just had to go through it. You weren't weaned off it like that. So I just ask them those kind of questions. I don't tell them to take it, to not take it I do say work always with your professional whether it's a psychiatrist or another type of doctor I do not recommend any kind of dosages I've also sponsored people that I knew had from childhood or youth needed medical assistance I'll call it and I can tell when they haven't done it right or maybe they've been changed and I will say, ask them have you been on your health routine of your proper eating and we know that if you don't get enough sleep you're near the cliff please, please take care of yourself this affects every area of your life so I get to know them well enough that I can tell by the things going on in their life something's amiss here maybe we start there if they've changed and are having side effects have you talked to your doctor about this again I always direct them to the professional and remind them please don't self take off diagnose anything like that please work with the professional so I don't have an opinion on it but I ask questions about it if someone which I have had just once that I can remember took medications to the point of really being loaded you knew that there was nobody home there was somebody there but no one home I'm not getting anywhere I don't proceed at all I say, you know what, I don' t know that I'm the right person maybe someone else who has more experience in this would be able to help you better but that's only one time that I can remember that it was of such a nature that they weren't there so I know that there are people who definitely need them and I have no opinion whether they do or not but I want them to have an awareness and a responsibility for what they're doing that's all yeah hey Dan along those same lines is there anything actually in the book that you can show them that's, you know, from the first time in 64? You know, they're for or against or, you know. No, there is a great pamphlet, however. I mean, when we first started, people were on severely heavy sedatives. I mean to tell you, 48, they wrote a pamphlets, but it's been out of print, but you can find it online. Goofballs, they were called. I mean these suckers were severe or sedatives that they were taking. When they would go on 12-step calls, they would have to talk to the men about what are you on? Are you on any of those things? Because people were dying from being given alcohol that they thought and the reaction, they would die. So it's evolved and changed a bit over the years, but there's a phenomenally great pamphlet called The AA Member and Other Medications. It is stories of us, written by us, of people who've been on them and were able to get off, and those who were on them tried to get off, and their life was twisted. So they needed to be on them. So two groupings of stories. It's a great pamphlet to give to someone with medications that you might feel will be helped by that. Just so they understand, in the 70s and early 80s we went through a big detrimental period of time of if you were on anything lithium even included to you were not sober and people were really in trouble over that people were dying, people were committing suicide because of some misinformation they were given so let's be careful we're not doctors yeah, Katie when someone asks you to sponsor them and then you agree to meet with them and have a coffee and discuss how you sponsor how do you address it if you feel it's not the right match if someone like with a cake if you're talking to them and you feel like well maybe this isn't the right batch for me even though they think you're the right branch for them what, how do You do You proceed in sponsoring them and then later an issue comes up Do You deal with it then? If you feel that way, when I'm sitting next to somebody in a meeting and they're fairly new and they say, hey, because I happen to be next to them, would you be my sponsor? I say, you know what? I know that you're brand new. I would love to introduce you to some of the other women so you can feel a little more comfortable on your decision. Let's go meet some of The Gals. Let's do a few more meetings together. And I think you'll find the right person. If that turns out to be me, and I can be somebody you can call for a while while you're getting your feet, great. But I just feel like I just happen to be handy. It could have been anybody sitting next to them. So when they're that new, I will do that. If I don't feel it's a good fit, even in the early beginning, I will kind of indicate, you'll know, you're both know. you'll both know if that's the case if you have someone in mind that has more of a story or similarity to this person have you met so and so I think you two might hit it off you've got a lot in common together no harm in doing that yeah, no harm in doing it no harm doing that at all because we do want people to get to the right person that's going to help them okay, a couple more questions then we've got to wrap I just wanted to share or for you to share I know when I was six years sober I had taken something on accident and I called you and I said I have this weird effect and you asked me some questions did I take it on purpose and those things and I think that sometimes we don't know as sponsors how to address those type of issues that come up I didn't change my sobriety date but you and I had really talked about the situation and did I change things in my life after that? So how do you deal with something like that? I know you shared it with me but maybe somebody else has experience. Yeah, there have been times when someone will call and I picked up the wrong drink so this is something we always want to be cautious about When it's by accident and we know it, the question always becomes did you take it a second time? If the answer is yes then you change your sobriety date. Ignorance is one thing knowledge is another. And I have had people call me that have taken someone else's medication because they were extremely nervous and that helped them calm down. that's a sobriety date change in my world the last thing I ever took is I smoked one joint what's one joint for crying out loud I mean gosh it counts our physical sobriete is long so I don't know if that kind of helps answer the question there on that sometimes people have situations like that and you don't Know how to handle them Right. How do you go through those questions in a kind way, and you were really kind with me and really helped me to take a look at how I go about my day and what I do and to be really careful no matter who it is? I have a sponsee who seems to be very, very sensitive in thinking that there's alcohol in some sauces, and we know that there are. So when she orders a dish, she will, if it's not listed, she will ask, and of course if it's listed it's a no brainer, but she will ask is there alcohol in the sauce and they'll say no and she'll think still seems like it tastes like there's alcohol in there and it really messes in her mind and I said well you've got some choices then either you get stuff without sauce or if you it doesn't matter whether I taste it or not if it affects you you need to stop engaging it. You don't have to try to convince yourself it's not. If you're uncomfortable with it, you don't Have to fight through that. Stop eating that. So why don't you just order some stuff without sauce? Because there's two whether it is or not, you still think there is and it messes with your mind so we all have our response we take care of our physical sobriety There was one other question to me Alright, well let's go ahead and close this with the Lord's Prayer Thanks, everybody. let's start with our I'm sorry I'm so sorry I'm fine our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven give us this day of our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.