Spiritual Experience and Spiritual Awakening – BBCA Step Study Workshop – Part 2 of 2 – Howard E.

john you're on unmute please there you go thank you howard good afternoon good evening good night good morning oh welcome to the big book comes line step study my name is john forrest and i am alcoholic along with david kennedy we will serve as your co-host today also anita and bina will be co-hosed they I'm being, sorry, Anita will be monitoring the chats. I'm, Bina will be co-host monitoring the waiting room and the muting during a meeting. Our guide through the text is Howard Eber. My name is Howard Ebber and I am an alcoholic. Now keeping with our first tradition, we ask that you please turn on your video to prevent disturbances. I've asked Thomas to read the preamble. Let me put that up here so it'll make it a little bit easier. Can you see that? Yep, yep. Good evening, my name's Tom Alcolic. Happy birthday to everyone. So the AA Preamble, Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for AA membership. we are self-supported through our own contributions AA is not allied with any sector, nomination, politics organisation or institution does not wish to engage in any controversy neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other colleagues to achieve sobriety Thank you Tom We'll have the serenity prayer right? That's correct, will you all join me in the Wait, let me get it figured here. Hang on a second. Actually, if you don't notice, probably should be ashamed, but okay. Unmute everyone if you do not mind. God bless you. Thank you, John. thank you is there any announcements yeah quite a few announcements are trying as brief as possible uh there will be no review meeting tomorrow night okay okay all right i'm sorry uh there will be no review meeting tomorrow or next monday and next sunday there will Be No Workshop i'll be off the grid i'm actually turning off my wi-fi tomorrow and i'll have wi-Fi turned on it's a new place next mondAY so it's it's impossible for me to get hooked up. So next weekend is a weekend off, and we'll resume the weekend afterwards, which is Sunday the 16th. So you may want to write that down. Sunday the16th, we return to normal. Also, a couple of things here. We have a Facebook page. Let me get this for you. I'll show you how to find it. All right, here's our Facebook page. Can everyone see that? David, is that up? No. No? No, Howard. Okay, it's that last step that always gets me. here we go okay now you got it the name of this the site is the big book comes alive step study we now have 813 members i'm going to announce a few flyers that i get but only the ones that are of members of this group who are sharing somewhere if you'd like to get your flyers posted just send them to me if you would like to find them go to this page click where it says media right here it'll take you to this page with all these nice looking flyers click on albums and that's where you'll find ours organized by well category if you send me a flyer with a date on it like we're looking at here that the box of chocolates for may i have one for april i have one for may to put up there all of the limited runs will be there other big book studies will be right here you just pick out the one that you're interested in and go to it um women's meetings there's quite a few women's meetings if anyone's got any more please send it to me and i'll put them up here joe and charlie meetings getting a few of those so everyone i get i'll put up there uh 24 and 7 meetings you want a meeting in the middle of the night there they are and there's one a couple other categories the uh individuals if you're sharing anywhere please send it to me and we'll promote it here and at the meeting and anything else, any other meeting you'd like to promote, give it to me and I'll be right here on the fly as suggested. Each week we are recording our workshops you'll find them here on recoveryspeakers.com just go to the site recoveryspeakers.com click where it says speakers and drop down menu here will say audio sorry meeting audio libraries and that opens up this box which is big book comes alive step study workshop and here are all of the ones to date anyone you want to listen to just click on it for this example the one from the 11th and not only is the work the recording here but the handouts from that particular week will be right here so even if you don't have it you could get it there um also there are some announcements for speakers let me try and get through this as quickly as i can all right david i think i have yours first here okay good can you see that okay yeah i can't howard um i think people can see that it probably needs to be but anyway it's sponsored we're doing just a workshop on sponsorship sponsored to be or not to be that is the question by mike e thank you howard it's friday 7th of may okay that's the friday meeting uh and then you have this on thursday oh yes this is uh we're getting into writing the big book the creation you need to probably put that up it's not up our but it's okay okay it's writing the creation of aa uh by william sherbrooke i'm sure everyone knows about that we're getting into january uh february 1938 now so we're getting into bill wilson is three years or so sober and he's we're talking about dr bob's hospital in chapter five and that's on thursdays at 7 30 in the uk okay in the east coast thank you harold and how about this can you see this one david oh wow this is we've got fergie b he's done 50 years that's the man who gave me this he passed this on to me he recorded he brought joe and charlie to uh ireland in 19 three thank you howard he's 50 years next saturday okay a couple of others the box of chocolates meeting on thursday night each week is a different host and the host sets the topic um i definitely want to see jay stennett coming up in two weeks tom r ronda and charley um the journey to freedom speakers, there's a lot of people from this group who are sharing. So I've boxed them in. There's Ron Kay on May 5th, Chris Schroeder on the 26th of May, Steve B on June 2nd, Marty C is the 9th and the 16th of June, and Chris again, June 30th. All people who come to this meeting. I've been asked to share the first Saturday I'm back from my time off at the Saturday Night Fever meeting at 11 o'clock in England, 6 p.m. Eastern Time. That's a week from next Saturday. The Bernardsville Daily Reprieve Group, Chris is starting a series for May with Brad L. called The Spirituality of Recovery. All May, every Tuesday in May, they'll be doing another session of that. So got to make that. Let's see what else. Glenn has his meeting on Saturday, this coming Saturday. At what time is it there, Glenn? It's 7 p.m. Eastern Time. The 2 p.am. Long Timers Meeting, 2 p., Eastern Time, the Rugby Friday Big Book Study. I've been asked to promote this on friday the room opens at 7 p.m in great britain so that's 2 p.м eastern time uh anita's home group anita you want to say something about this uh every week we have a step speaker meeting it's a hybrid meeting now so some people can be on zoom and other people can me at the physical meeting and it's every friday 8 p. m everyone is welcome whether you're young or not thank you um and glenn also has a meeting on sunday right after us at 7 p.m a big book discussion they read three or four pages at a time and then discuss it uh that's tonight 7 p,m eastern time uh we already went through that and marianne has started her big book study uh yesterday uh It would be every Saturday at 10 a.m. Marianne, are you here? Okay. And that's it for the announcements. The rest of the announcements, if you sent me a flyer, it's on our Facebook page. But the most important thing, again, no review meeting tomorrow or next Monday, no workshop next Sunday. Thank you. I'll send out an email in case you forget. thank you howard in keeping with our seventh tradition we are self-supporting through our own competition contributions here are a few ways you can contribute uh let me put this up here if you give me a second um there we go can you see that no watch out okay i wonder why that always happens i gotta figure that out okay there you go just hold your camera your phone up uh to the screen and it'll take you to either venmo or cash app or paypal my phone is clicking so some folks are already doing it thank you uh or snail mail send a check to the beacon falls address here even if i'm gone it will be forwarded and next time we get together i'll have the florida address there proudly display my florida actress i'm going to leave this up for a moment while uh john continues thank you this is a 75 minute workshop where we work through the steps as was originally written in the basic text textbook of alcohol it's anonymous we analyze discuss highlight and relate to the reading as we go along if you feel we're moving too fast please notice in the chat to anita and we'll slow down also howard will remain online after the meeting for as long as necessary it's our intention to walk through the 12 steps as a group we give out assignments and if you care to we will work through the results together therefore making a commitment each week is critical so please bring your sponsor sponsees and people from your circle of recovering friends please not though this workshop is not a substitute for a sponsor if you do not have a sponsor yet it's vital to get one as soon as possible even a temporary sponsor if If you are new, please stay online after the meeting and we'll help you out. We begin each meeting by asking everyone to unmute and read the set-aside prayer, followed by a minute's silent meditation to clear our minds and get in touch with why we are here. All right, let me get this for you all. And let me shrink this down a bit. Okay, if you all please unmute. You're God. You're good. minute of meditation it was too little Hello? Okay. Welcome back. My name is Howard Eber. I'm still an alcoholic. Again, anyone who might have tuned in a little late, there will not be a review meeting tomorrow or next Monday. There will not been a workshop next Sunday. I'll be in the state of moving so I will not have access to the internet. so this is the last sunday in connecticut uh this is my last sundAY doing this we started the big book workshops um about 15 years ago um and there were some nights on especially thursday nights when there were two people there myself and two other people and and look how we've grown. This all started because my sponsor, Chris Schroeder, if he's here, it's his fault because he suggested I record a cycle a few years back, I think 2016. And he said, give it to me and I'll take it from there. And we recorded it for about 40 weeks, gave it to him. He put it up on, got it put up on YouTube and all kinds of other places. And that leads us to this. When COVID hit, I made a few phone calls to the people who had reached out to me over the years. And hey, you want to do this on Zoom? And everybody agreed to as long as I agreed to continue doing it after Zoom, after COVID passed, and I did. So we have this little family that's grown considerably and will continue. We're just going to start from Florida, a new age with a new studio. It'll look totally different in two weeks. I was kind of getting used to this place, but be that as it may. All right, let's move on. We've taken a look at the problem. We talked about the problem in the doctor's opinion, and we learned basically why we can't drink or drug like anybody else, that we have this twofold condition, malady. Without getting into the disease concept, let's just call it a malady that's made up of a physical allergy and a mental obsession. The physical allergy is that when we consume alcohol, it does something to us that it doesn't do to other non-alcoholics, to the hard drinkers, the social drinkers that triggers an actual abnormal allergic reaction called craving. That one asks for the second, the second requires the third, the third demands the fourth, the fourth screams out for the fifth and on and on. But our allergy is a little bit different than say an allergy to strawberries because we also have this mental obsession where once we stop drinking for a period of time, our mind begins to play tricks on us. It remembers the ease and comfort that came from any emotional problem we were having, and how easily we could make that go away, and eventually that thought becomes so overpowering that it does that. It overpowers all thoughts to the contrary. All of our experiences and knowledge about what happens every time we pick up, we make the decision to pick up. The dumbest decision we ever made, we made when we were stone cold sober, that is to pick up that first drink. And the moment we take that, it's not up to us anymore. We've triggered a physiological reaction of craving and we're off to the races. And then we started to read Bill's story to identify, to see how this alcoholic went through the various stages of drinking for fun, drinking to function, drinking to seek oblivion. And we've also seen him struggle with a few hospitalizations. Bill has already been in the hospital three times at the point where we are now, and he's gotten to the point of being hopeless. And according to the story in the book, Bill said the phone rang one night and a friend of his, his old drinking buddy from prep school named Ebi Thatcher called him up and Ebi was to Bill the worst alcoholic he ever met. He always said if I ever got as bad as him I'd have to quit and Evi was sober and he wanted to come over and talk to Bill so Bill said sure come on over and they he came over and he started to tell Bill about his experience with the Oxford groups and how he had found God, and this spiritual program that he was practicing that the Oxford groups taught. And all Bill was hearing was religion. If he's talking spirituality, Bill is hearing religion. And they are two different things. So Bill got to a point of frustration after hours, because we've already read where Bill said he went on for hours. So the scene is, they're sitting there, and Bill's about two-thirds drunk, because he's been drinking this whole time. Ebby's involved with the Oxford groups and bless his heart, he is on fire and he's using a lot of religious terminology. You know, just like many newly sober people, man, he just can't wait to tell you everything he's doing and Bill doesn't like it. Doesn't like him at all and he finally must be saying, look, no more of this religious crap. I can believe in a spirit of the universe or a spirit or nature or something but let's not get too carried away with this God thing. And Ebi must have been pretty frustrated because he's been going on for hours and he's not getting anywhere with Bill. So out of exasperation, out of frustration, according to what we're reading in this book, he blurted out something that has changed the lives or saved the lives of millions of people worldwide. he said, why don't you consider your own concept of God? Why don't you come up with your own? Why Don't You Choose Your Own Conception of God. Now that's pretty much where we were last week We're on page 12, right in the middle and I want to show you something those of you who were at the history meeting Friday, Dave McDermott gave an extraordinary presentation on Ebi What happened to Ebi? And he presented a couple of things that I want to pass along to you because we had mentioned that when the phone rang, Bill was wondering how did Ebi get out of trouble because the last time he heard Ebi was about to be sentenced for alcoholic insanity to the Brattleboro Asylum because Vermont had this three strikes law where if you're arrested and convicted of three drunken offenses, they send you there for an indeterminate period. It's up to the people who run the facility to decide when you're able to leave. And he didn't go there, so Bill was wondering what happened because what happened was Ebi had three strikes against him. According to legend, the third strike was he had just painted the family barn and a bunch of birds flew over and soiled his freshly painted barn. So Ebi ran out, got the shotgun and started chasing them around the neighborhood shooting these birds. And obviously, the people in the neighborhood called the police. There's this drunk running around shooting a shotgun up in the air. I think you should stop him. But there was also a time where Ebi, one of the times he was arrested was he was drunk and he drove into someone's home. And we have some articles. We have some history of that. And David had shown them on Friday, and I'm going to bring them up again because I always like to show things. Illustrations are always the best way to learn. All right, this is the actual article that appeared. Let me blow this up because it's hard to see. Packard driven into house, stops at stove. This was in the Bennington Evening Paper, And this is just a picture someone added of what that Packard that Abby was driving looked like. And while it's very hard to read this stuff, this is what it says. The article says, large car, which had crashed into the porch, through the door and into the kitchen. The car was a straight eight, yada, yadda, yedda. And according to legend, Ebi stumbled out of the car and basically asked, is coffee ready yet? So I thought you might like to see that stuff. Thank you, David, for putting that up. Always like to have visual aids. We're on page 12, right in the middle. Where Ebby said, why don't you choose your own conception of God? And Bill said, that statement hit me hard. I know we reviewed this last week. We did this last week, but I want to review it. It melted the icy intellectual mountain in whose shadow I had lived and shivered many years. I stood in the sunlight at last. And I've got that whole paragraph highlighted. Every once in a while Bill describes something so graphically that I get chills from it and this is one of those things, the icy intellectual mountain in whose shadow I lived and shivered. And the next paragraph is highlighted all the way through beginning with the squiggly writing. It was only a matter of being willing, and I've underlined those two words, to believe in a power greater than myself. That's step two. He didn't have to believe. He had to be willing. That's all that's required in step two, sometimes I go to meetings and people talk about when the topic is step two and people Talk about faith and God and that's not what step two is about. Step two is About willingness to believe in it. The word God doesn't appear till the next step And he says, nothing more was required of me to make my beginning. I saw that growth could start from that point upon a foundation of complete willingness. I might build what I saw in my friend. Would I have it? Of course I would. And what I wrote after that is basically, if he could do it, so could I. And that's what Bill must be thinking. This is the worst drunk I ever met, and he's telling me that he's gotten sober by doing this stuff. And even though I may think it's silly, I got evidence that this man hasn't had a drink in three months. He's sitting here telling methat he got sober as a result of the Oxford Group's activities. Now, as I mentioned last week, the four paragraphs in the middle of this page, the paragraph that begins with, despite the living example of my friend. The next paragraph that says, my friend suggested. The one after that that says that statement hit me hard. And the one we just read, it was only a matter of being willing. Those four paragraphs were not in the original manuscript. And my suggestion was, think about, you know, I say how AA would have changed. I don't think there would have been an AA. If those paragraphs weren't in the book, that statement, why don't you choose your own conception of God, has opened the door for millions of us. I, for one, wouldn't be here. Absolutely. Just a show of hands. How many people, if you were force-fed God in the beginning, would you have left right away like me? absolutely absolutely so think of how significant those four paragraphs are and they weren't in the book originally one of the handouts for today is called thoughts and why don't you choose your own conception of god and i'll put it up here for anyone who doesn't have it because we're going to read through that because we're going to take a look at both stories, what Bill said happened and what Ebby said happened. So let's just review the scene. Bill's drunk having been drinking during the course of this several hour long conversation. Ebby's gotten into the Oxford groups who use a lot of religious terminology and like many newcomers he's on fire. He's been talking a lot about God and Bill doesn't like it at all. So they're arguing back and forth and Bill essentially says don't give me any more of this religious crap. I believe in the spirit of nature or whatever, but not any of that other stuff. But Bill must have felt somewhat torn because Ebby was two months sober. So he was living, breathing proof of some greater spiritual power working in his life, whether Bill liked it or not. Ebby Was undeniable proof of what he was claiming. But did Ebby actually say that? Probably not. Think about this. Bill was a salesman and a promoter. In fact, as many of you know, in the early days when someone with some sobriety spoke up at an open meeting often attended by newcomers, they referred to it as a pitch. And anyone in sales knows that a pitch is a sales pitch. And that's what Bill was, was a salesman. So remember he's trying to sell us something. And as Bill states in the original manuscript, which we'll get to when we get to chapter five, in How It Works, Bill had the line that the book was carefully designed to sell pertinent ideas. That word sell was changed. But originally he said this was designed to sell you pertinent ideas. The point that Bill was trying to sell us something must, must be kept in mind. When interviewed later, Ebby said he had no recollection of making that suggestion to Bill, that such a proposal would have represented a major deviation from the Oxford Group message of belief in and reliance upon Christ, a philosophy into which Ebby had been staunchly indoctrinated during the past few months. So for Ebby to say that was a violation of everything that he's been learning in the Oxford groups. As for Bill's own recollection, we have to remember that by his own admission, teetering on the edge of alcoholic insanity, therefore he was not the most reliable of narrators. Between Ebby's visit and the time the book was written, Bill had formulated some clear-cut ideas of what alcoholics would and would not sign on to. The Akronites were having tremendous success with the very Christian approach and seemed content to maintain their ties with the Oxford group. And just as an added note here, bear in mind that the Akron group was against the concept of a book, period. So it wasn't just more God or less God in the book. They wanted more God, but they didn't want a book at all. That was the mindset in Akron. Wilson, the visionary, knew better and was committed to a non-Christian book and a more open-minded choose-for-yourself spirituality. This being very reminiscent of what he was taught by the man who raised him, his maternal grandfather, Gardner Griffith. Remember earlier in Bill's story, he said his contempt of some church folk and his denial of the preacher's right to tell him how he must listen. Grandpa Griffith had a definite belief in God, but resented anyone telling him how to believe, how to pray, what to say, what-to-wear, whatto-eat, and so on. His quest to sell these ideas was aided by the burgeoning membership in Cleveland where sobriety czar Clarence Snyder strongly supported the split from the Protestant Oxford group and a less dogmatic tone for the book. So, the mind-blowing, gate-widening suggestion, why don't you choose your own conception of God, almost certainly came entirely from the mind of Bill Wilson, not the mouth of Ebi Thatcher. And as further proof, consider the fact that the pages that we just went over, those one, two, three, four paragraphs, were not included in the original manuscripts of the book. Imagine what if we would have had just this to work with. I saw that my friend was a much more ordinarily reorganized, he was on a different footing, his roots grasped a new soil. Thus was I convinced that God is concerned if he just skipped what has been added. And here's what's been added in Hank Parker's own handwriting. This was the first paragraph that he added, Despite the example of my friend, there remained in me the vestiges of my old prejudice. I mean, it's hard to read, but it's all there. Then there's paragraph two down here. My friend suggested what then seemed like a novel idea. He said, why don't you choose your own conception of God? That's where it came from. hank gave the note to bill and bill was aware that bill was a rate was raised with those beliefs and this goes on next paragraph that statement hit me hard it melted the icy intellectual mountain which it was a bit of a shock for me to realize that hank had come up with that expression and not bill that graphic description icy intellectual fountain came from the mind of Hank Parkhurst. No Hank, no book. In the last paragraph, it was only a matter of being willing. Nothing more was required of me to make my beginning. So it's something to think about that it doesn't really matter whether it happened one way or the other because what's important is It's in the book, and it changed our lives, millions of lives. But it's a great example of Bill wanting to deflect credit, always being given to him, so he wanted to deflect it to other people. Give Ebi credit for saying that. Not Hank, not Jim Burwell. Give it to Ebi. And we're going to see how some other things are a little bit different too, but let's get back to the book, we're on page 12. That last paragraph, thus was I convinced that God is concerned with us humans, and I've underlined this, when we want him enough. And I've highlighted and underlined in this next sentence, at long last I saw, I felt, I believed. And this next sentences in pink, because it is a promise, a vision of hope, a second-step promise. Scales of pride and prejudice fell from my eyes. A new world came into view. There's the willingness. The real significance of my experience in the cathedral burst upon me, and since it was a few weeks ago, let me just review what he's talking about in Pass It On on page 60 is the description of what happened in winchester cathedral remember at the beginning of this chapter bill said much moved and he ran outside the cathedral but that's not enough what really happened in Winchester Cathedral so on page60 it says 60 of pass it on it says inside the great cathedral the atmosphere itself seems so deeply uh impressed itself so deeply upon him that he was taken by a sort of ecstasy, moved and stirred by a tremendous sense of presence. For a brief moment, he said, I had needed and wanted God. There had been a humble willingness to have him with me, and he came. And Bill, finally, all these years later, That's probably 1918. He's writing this in 1938-39 about something that happened to him with Ebi in 1934-35. All of a sudden, 15 years later, duh! It occurs to him what God was trying to tell him in Winchester Cathedral. It's amazing he even remembered it, but he did. He must have felt like a safe dropped on him with one of those god moments like holy that's what he was trying to tell me holy shit i missed the whole point okay so he says the real significance of the cathedral burst upon me for the moment i had needed and wanted god and i've highlighted this next sentence in pink there had been a humble willingness to have him with me and he came that's a promise all we need is willingness if we are willing we can make the decision we're going to have to make to put into action a plan that'll make it a close for us to be to to that to actually experience god i'm stumbling all over my words here that god will reveal himself if we are willing we make the decision we put the plan of action in and we get the results simple formula um and i've highlighted this next sentence too because he's going to refer to the same thing about three four times he said but the but soon his sense his presence had been blotted out by worldly clamors mostly those within myself i've underlined those world words worldly clamours basically that's the the shit storm of everyday life the things that come at you on a daily basis that's worldly clamors so bill is having a spiritual experience with ebby he remembers the spiritual experience he had in winchester cathedral and he's having another spiritual experience that day sitting at the table talking to ebony but spiritual experiences are transient They pass. Unless we have a solid foundation of spiritual beliefs, we don't have that base that will keep us sober through worldly clamors. We need a spiritual awakening, not a spiritual experience. Awakenings last. Experiences pass. and so it has been ever since how blind i had been one of the things i sent out in the handouts today was ebby's version now we've read what what bill said happened that day now we're going to look at what ebbey said happenedthatday and what i'm doing here is i'm reading from writing the big book bill shaberg's book and this is the cover of it and what I'm reading is on pages six through eight and that's where ebby tells what he remembers happening a prime example of walls it's hard to read on here I know but if you have the book it's page a prime example of Wilson's creative myth-making, can be seen in his version of an encounter considered to be one of the pivotal moments of A.A. history, the hallowed story of Ebby Thatcher's visit to his Brooklyn home in late November 34. Bill sat on one side of the kitchen table drinking gin while his recently sober friend, Ebby, sat opposite him. Bill told the story of this meeting repeatedly throughout his sober life. But the most famous version of it appears in Bill's story, the first chapter he wrote for the book Alcoholics Anonymous. And Bill Shaber just lays out what we've just read. Everything we've Just Read is here. So he said he came to pass his experience along if I cared to have it. I was shocked but interested certainly I was. I had to be, I was hopeless. Literally millions of alcoholics have read this story and been inspired by its message of hope and the possibility that they too might recover. It's one of the most famous encounters in the history of Alcoholics Anonymous, a seminal founding moment of our fellowship. But Ebi Thatcher, the man who supposedly sat on the other side of the kitchen table, told a completely different version of that story. One so far removed from Bill Wilson's account that it's hard to believe they were talking about the same event. This is what Abby says happened. So I called him up one night and I didn't get Bill, but I got Lois, his wife, and told her what happened to me. Well, anyway, Lois said, why don't you come over to dinner some night? And then she mentioned a date and I said, fine. So that night I went over at half past five, I guess in the evening, and I rang the bell at 182 Clinton Street. The only person home was an old colored man named Green, whom I'd known for years. He'd been with the family, Lois's family that is and he said they're both out both Mrs. Wilson and Mr. Wilson are out but come on in so pretty soon Bill appeared and he'd been drinking but he wasn't too bad and said hello and this and that and the other thing and he's kind of taking me around then he made an excuse he had to go out get some ice cream something else for dinner and of course I knew to what he was going after, I understood. I'd done it so many times myself. So then Lois came in. Now there was another girl invited. There was a girl invited because she lived upstairs. They'd made the place into an apartment. So we all sat down at dinner and Bill's got it a little garbled in the book about it being across the kitchen table but it don't make any difference. The idea is there. Now, we got dinner and then we all moved upstairs in those houses back there in the east. Most of the living rooms are on the second floor. So we moved up to the second floor. And after a little hemming and hawing, Lois says, well, let's hear about yourself. So I started in and I guess they got me wound up. And I guess I talked until pretty near 10, o'clock in the morning. And I remember Bill said, I'll walk to the subway with you. And I knew he wasn't going to go for a drink because he had a bottle in the house anyway. And on the way over, he put his arms around my shoulders just before I went to the subway and said, I don't know what you've got, kid, but you've got something and I want to get it. Well, he didn't stop drinking right away any more than I stopped drinking back there that summer when the Oxford boys came to see me. But the idea was in there, and the idea happened to get into Bill's head. Ebby's version of that evening in Brooklyn, Ebby told that version several different times, always acknowledging that, quote, the story you read in the big book is a little different. He once glibly explained those differences by noting that after all, he happened to be sober that night while Bill Wilson was drunk, pointing out there were some details of that talk that Bill just doesn't remember. Bill didn't answer the phone? Lois knew about Ebby's recovery before he arrived? Was the whole evening a setup by Lois? No one other than Mr. Green was home when Ebby got there? No kitchen table? no private one alcoholic talking to another conversation they all had did it together and then went upstairs into the living room lois and the girl who lived upstairs were there too bill with his typical bravado expressing an interest in ebby's solution but ever so casually and only in private while they were walking back to the subway in the early hours of the morning It's not the same story at all, not even close. So what really did happen that afternoon? Or was it evening in Brooklyn in late November 34? With two such contradictory reports, it'd be helpful to have a contemporary account to verify one version or the other. But the closest thing we have to that is a round-robin letter that Lois wrote to three of her oldest friends on July 20th, 1935, a full eight months after Ebby's visit. In that letter, Lois proudly announces that, quote, Bill has stopped drinking through the Oxford Group, end quote, and then explains that, quote, last December, Ebby Thatcher, spelled incorrectly, appeared sober for the first time in years and with a very strange story to tell about a religion called the Oxford group which had cured him just as he was about to be committed to an insane asylum. While this confirms the importance of Ebby's visit, Lois provides no details whatsoever other than to say it occurred in December, which actually contradicts Bill's claim that Ebby appeared, quote, near the end of that bleak November, adding yet another layer of confusion to the story. With no other direct evidence to rely on. Ebby's version of the story is far more credible than Bill's for several reasons. First of all, he presents a coherent linear narrative beginning with Lois answering the phone and ending with his walk to the subway with Bill and he supports that story with a wealth of specific colorful details. If this is a story Ebby Thatcher made up just to counter the more familiar version, it was an amazingly creative effort. Also, the fact that he told the story publicly when he knew he was being recorded, along with his open acknowledgement that it was significantly different from what Bill always said, surely carries significant weight when evaluating the integrity of his memories of that night. Thatcher's story, after all, had the ring of messy truth to it, while Wilson's presentation sounds like a polished parable that it is. None of this is meant to ignore the fact that Ebi Thatcher had a hard time staying sober and he was not always the most reliable witness. I'm skipping down to the next paragraph. Ebi Thacher's version is clearly more believable than Bill Wilson's and that of course begs the question, why? Would Bill have strayed so far from the facts when he told his version of the story? The short answer is that Wilson was taking one of his experiences and recasting it into a story with a message. A message that would in no way be complicated or confused by the messy details of what actually happened. The point of Bill's much simpler, more direct, comprehensive story is to dramatically present one of the most basic fundamental beliefs of Alcoholics Anonymous, namely that one alcoholic could affect another as no non-alcoholic could. His story about Ebby's visit does this admirably. Just the two of them sitting at a kitchen table, their entire conversation is devoted to how his friend had successfully taken control of his drinking, and has now come to pass his message of hope onto another suffering alcoholic. It was one drunk talking to another drunk, the only way that the message of recovery could ever have been delivered so effectively, so successfully. In fact, it was this very one-on-one conversation that became the first step in Bill's journey on the road to recovery. Wilson's version of the story is a parable, a mythic truth deeply embedded in his story of AA's origin, emphasizing the fact that it all started with one alcoholic talking to another alcoholic, personally delivering the message of potential sobriety. Bill told the story this way because it made the point that he wanted to make. In such cases, the actual facts are distinctly secondary to properly packaging and selling the concepts. Wilson had no problem justifying the creation of this much-simplified story because doing so served his higher purpose. Even as he offered his alternate version, Ebby acknowledged that higher purpose, noting that the differences between his memory of that night and Bill's later recollection really, quote, didn't make any difference because the idea is there and the principle of the thing is about the same. And indeed, as far as Bill Wilson was concerned, it was the idea and the principal of the thing that were far more important than any jumbled collection of actual facts. Wilson's story had drama and impact, delivering an unmistakable message of hope. Thatcher's did not. You decide. We have Bill's story. We Have Ebby's Story. I think it is interesting to remember that as Ebby said, one of us was sober that night. And in the end, Ebby says it really doesn't matter because the message is clear. The message is more important than a recitation of facts. I agree with that. I believe that. I think it makes perfect sense. Bill was telling a story. Just like Jesus told his parables, Bill is a teacher and he wants to put across a message, and this is a better story. Like he says, it had dramatic impact. Okay, we're back to the book. Page 13, the first full paragraph that begins with, at the hospital. At the hospital I was separated from alcohol for the last time. This is December 11, 1934, Bill's fourth visit to the hospital, this is his fourth and final visit, the hospital is Towns Hospital incidentally. At the Hospital I was Separated from Alcohol for the Last Time, Treatment Seemed Wise for I showed signs of delirium tremens. Now, Bill has already taken the first two steps. He admitted he's powerless. He's going to the hospital for help. So there's a willingness there. Let's see if we can identify what would become the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous in the next few paragraphs, where he talks about the experience that he had with Ebi in the hospital, applying the steps that Ebi said he had taken. I've highlighted the next three paragraphs all the way through. Every line of the next три paragraphs is highlighted. the first one i've underlined this first two sentences too he said now this is about three days later uh i don't have the time to read it now but if you uh read uh bill w uh by francis hardigan he talks about this event describes it the same way but he says he describes it by saying three or four days later. So Bill has gone through a detox. He's now at a point where he's detoxified enough so he can have a conversation with Debbie. So he says, there I humbly offered myself to God as I then understood him to do with me as he would. I placed myself unreservedly under his care and direction. Does that sound like step three? Sure as hell does to me. And that's what I've written next to it. Step three, surrender. I admitted for the first time that of myself I was nothing, that without him I was lost. I've underlined this. I ruthlessly faced my sins. Moral inventory. Does it sound like step four? It does to me. It became step four. Remember, and we're going to be talking a lot about this when we get into how it works. Theoretically, there was a six-step program from the Oxford group that was adopted. And that's what Bill's explaining. We'll come to find out that there really wasn't the six steps in existence at the time. They just followed these actions, these practices of the Oxford Group. Then one of them was facing your sins. I ruthlessly faced my sins, became step four, and became willing to have my newfound friend. Notice friend is in uppercase. We're not talking about Ebby here. It's confusing because he uses the word friend on the same page to refer to God now and ebby later. How do we know? This friend is capitalized. When the word is capitalised, Bill is referring to God. So he said, I have my newfound friend, and I've underlined this. Take them away root and branch. Sounds like steps six and seven, no? Became six and seventh. I have not had a drink since. Bill is 39 years old. My schoolmate visited me, Ebby comes to visit him and I fully acquainted him with my problems and deficiencies. Sound like step five, right? And again, we're running out of time so I don't want to get too deep into it. In the Francis Hartigan book, he explains that Bill got a little clear-headed, called his friend Ebi and said, what was that little formula you talked about when you came over to my house? So the fact that Ebi talked to Bill while he was drunk is significant. You know, in common culture today, in our culture, they tell you don't talk to people when they're drunk. Well, if Ebi would have done that, we wouldn't be here today. Later on in working with others, Bill says we don't talk to them when they are very drunk. If you're sloppy and stupid, I'm not going to try and tell you about a recovery program. But if you're an alcoholic, you're always going to be under the influence to some extent all the time. And Bill was able to listen and Ebby planted a seed. And now three or four days into his detox, Bill is getting a little clear-headed. And he's, hmm, I remember Ebi told me something, but I don't remember what it was. Let's get the old boy down here and let him run through that again. And that's exactly what happened. He says, I fully acquainted him with my problems and deficiencies, step five. We made a list of people I had hurt or toward whom I felt resentment. Sounds like steps four and eight. Right? Resentment, hurt, four, eight. I expressed my entire willingness to approach those individuals admitting my wrong. Step eight. Because again, step eight is preparing to make the amends. And he's saying that. He was expressing a willingness. That's getting prepared. Never was I to be critical of them. I was to write all such matters to the utmost of my ability. Steps eight and nine. I was to test my thinking by the new God consciousness within. Step one. Step one, and please underline this next sentence. Common sense would thus become uncommon sense. Now, I don't know about anybody else but i read that line for damn near 30 years certainly 25 plus i had no idea what it meant i read it nobody explained it it was one of those things that people read and because they didn't know what it meant they just went right by it into the next sentence but it bothered me because he's trying to make a point here common sense becomes uncommon sense what the hell are you talking about? So I asked a number of people, and this is what Charlie Parmelee told me. He's saying that common sense, meaning the first thought that occurs to us, the first thoughts that occur to us is thought of self, and that's the old way of thinking, right? Before we practiced these steps, it was what's in it for me, what do I get out of it? It was always self, self, self. Because that's common sense. Who else is going to think about me if I don't? That makes perfect common sense but Bill is saying that common sense becomes uncommon sense meaning thinking of myself first becomes uncommon. I think of myself second. I think of you and God first. I go from self-centered to God-centered. Common sense was self. That now becomes uncommon sense. Does that make sense? Because it really made it crystal clear for me. Thank God for Charlie Palmley, for so many things he's given me. But he gave me understanding of that sentence. And it makes perfect sense because we are taking our defective way of thinking, Asking God to help us convert it To a positive and asset way of thinking And that changes our whole reaction to life We begin to get in harmony Spiritually, mentally and physically We don't think of self so much anymore Okay he said I was to sit quietly when in doubt And I've underlined this Asking only for direction and strength To meet my problems As he would have me sounds like step 11 no that's what i've written never was i to pray for myself and i've underlined this except as my requests bore on my usefulness to others my usefuleness to others step 12 that part of step 12 is carrying this message then only might i expect to receive but that would be in great measure my friend and now he's talking about ebby notice the f in friend is in lowercase my friend promised when these things were done and i've highlighted the next sentence in pink It is a great promise and challenge of 12-step work. He says, I would enter upon a new relationship with my Creator that I would have the elements of the way of life which answered all my problems. All my problems, and I bet you thought it was just about alcohol. All my troubles, And if I break down that sentence a little further, he says, I would enter upon a new relationship with my creator. That means I've had a spiritual awakening. I have a new relationship with My Creator. He's not my errand boy. I'm here to do His will. That is a new relationship withMy Creator that came about as a result of working these steps. So that's my spiritual awakening, this new relationship with my Creator. And that relationship and the elements of a way of life, I've underlined elements of a Way of Life, and I wrote the steps. Once again, the steps are not one and done. These are a way-of-life. We continue this for the rest of our lives, and that's how we stay in harmony with our Creator. We have this new relationship, and we maintain it by working those steps on a daily basis. Belief in the power of God plus enough—and I've underlined these three words—willingness, honesty, and humility. And humility is just defined as recognizing one's shortcomings. That we're not perfect. That I recognize my shortcoming. uh honestly humility to establish and maintain a new order of things where the essential requirements i've circled the word requirements because that there folks is a 50 version of must and we circle all of the musts in this book for people who say there are no musts and aa well there's a crap load of them in the book so we're going to circle them all and that's one of them just a $50 way of saying it. And when he says a new order of things, I've underlined that, but I take that to be a reference to this fourth dimension of existence that we've been talking about. The fourth dimensionof existence that he's mentioned already, he's going to mention it again, which is being in harmony spiritually, mentally and physically. If we're in harmony in those three dimensions then we are in harmony in a fourth dimension which is the harmonious blend of those three um and i've highlighted this next paragraph all three lines it's not much but it's important he says simple but not easy a price had to be paid and we circle had to because it means must so what what's the cost of this thing nothing in life is free right that's what he's saying i'm given this way of life so what does it cost me well here's the tab here's the bill it meant destruction of self-centeredness to go from me self what's in it for me what do i get out of it why don't what i why should i do that to god-centered What would God have me do? His will, not mine. That's the price we have to pay. Quite a bill, quite a tab, and we never get even. I may work every day for the rest of my life doing this, and I will never ever break even, nor would I ever want to. He goes on to say, I must turn in all things, and of course we circle must, to the Father of Light who presides over us all. Father of light, just another euphemism for God. I mentioned he's going to be doing that a lot in this paragraph and in this chapter and the next ones as well. If you have trouble with the G word, try these on for size. If those brown shoes don't fit right, try this blue pair over here. Put them on, lace them up, go for a little walk, see how that feels. If you don't like God, try this one. These were revolutionary and drastic proposals. You bet they are. Think about that. The steps call for this revolutionary change in the way we live and relate to the world. They don't call for a minor modification. This is about the adoption of an entirely new way of life. And if you're not willing to do that, you've got to ask yourself one simple question. How's my way working? Ask yourself that question because this is a major overhauling of the way we go about life. Simple but not easy. Absolutely. But how's your way working if you are up to page 14? in this book, I would say you've recognized your way ain't working too good. Ain't working too well. Yeah, I think well is a better word. Okay, continuing. Drafts of proposals, but the moment I fully accepted them, and I've underlined those three words, fully accepted them, the effect was electric. That's a spiritual experience. Not awakening. He says the moment he realized that he fully accepted this concept that God is going to be his director. He felt a change, an electric charge. He built another spiritual awakening. Again, these things are transitory. They pass. We've all had God moments. Bill is having one at this point. And I think I to. When I first took the third step with my workshop group 15 years ago, I felt a change and I hadn't even started the fourth step yet but I knew I was finally dealing with this 800 pound gorilla that's been in the room for been in room with me for the past 24 years. I was finally starting to eat that elephant one bite at a time and I felt electric. I'm finally doing the right thing. And that's what Bill felt, spiritual experience. And I've highlighted the next sentence in pink because it's a promise. There is a sense of victory followed by such a peace and serenity I had never known. There was utter confidence. I felt lifted up as though through the great clean wind of a mountain top blew through and through. God comes to most men gradually, but his impact on me was sudden and profound. God comes to men gradually. That's a spiritual awakening. Happens gradually over a period of time as a result of doing this work. But Bill says his impact upon me was certain, and certain is a spiritual experience. He had a profound significant experience right then and there um in pass it on on page 121 i believe bill talks about this experience uh pass it on page 121 yeah that's what i got okay hang on let me get 121 for you okay he describes what he what happened to him this bill's spiritual experience what he said happened to Him that day in the hospital what happened next was electric Suddenly my room blazed with an indescribably white light. I was seized with an ecstasy beyond description. Every joy I had known was pale by comparison. The light, the ecstacy, I was conscious of nothing else for a time. Then, seen in the mind's eye, there was a mountain. I stood upon its summit where a great wind blew, a wind not of air but of spirit. In great clean strength it blew right through me. Then came the blazing thought, you're a free man. I know not at all how long I remained in this state, but finally the light and the ecstasy subsided. I again saw the wall of my room. As I became more quiet, a great peace stole over me, and this was accompanied by a sensation difficult to describe. I became acutely conscious of a presence which seemed like a veritable sea of living spirit. I lay on the shores of a new world. This, I thought, must be the great reality, the God of the preachers. That's what happened to Bill that day in Towns Hospital. That spiritual experience where he feels he was up on a mountaintop and felt the wind of a spirit blow through him. I don't mean today to be the day we burst a lot of bubbles about bill wilson but there's another side to this story too um bill's paternal grandfather william c wilson was an alcoholic this is not the guy who raised bill this is his maternal uh paternal his father's father was an alcoholic he built the largest house in east Dorset. And for years, he ran this house that was called Old Barrow's House, was eventually changed to what is now known as the Wilson House in Vermont. Grandfather Wilson was an alcoholic. One Sunday morning in despair, he climbed to the top of Mount Aeolus and beseeched God to help him. So he went up in the hills to the mountain behind his home, and he said, God, please help me. He saw a blinding light and felt a great wind and rushed down to interrupt the service at the Congregational Church, demanding that the minister leave the pulpit. Wilson described his experience to the congregation. In the eight years that he lived after that experience, the elder Wilson never had another drink. That's taken from Susan Cheever's book on Bill, page 17, where Grandpa Wilson describes being up on a mountain and feeling this wind blow through him. So once again, Bill plagiarizes an experience, but who gives a damn? He's trying to make a point, and the point is made. And I'll Point out something else here. We don't know exactly what happened to Bill that day, right? We know what he said, that on that day he had a profound spiritual experience and Bill died in January 1971. And between those times, he never took another drink. So we know that something must have happened on that date. He always said it was this vital spiritual experience that he worked the steps that Ebi told him about, and it changed his ideas, his emotions, his attitudes. All of those prior guiding forces were cast aside, and a whole new set of principles begin to take their place, and he's able to live the rest of his life without taking a drink. So we don't know what happened to this guy, but here's the proof. bill went in the hospital selfish self-centered to the max everything was about what's in it for me what do i get out of it when he left the hospital he was a different man let's continue a little bit we may run a little bit over but this is important um back to the book in the middle of page for a moment i was alarmed and called my friend the doctor that silky to ask if I were still sane. He listened in wonder as I talked. Finally, he shook his head saying something has happened to you. I don't understand, but you'd better hang on to it. Anything is better than the way you are. The good doctor now sees many men who have had experience, who have such experiences. He knows they are real. So once again, Bill Wilson came in the hospital, selfish self Senator Max. He's now about to leave the hospital. What do you think is in his mind? Is he thinking, I'm clear, man. I'm going to hit Wall Street. I've got all these great ideas. It's going to be money, money, and money. I had arrived again. No, that's not the Bill Wilson who left the hospital. That's the Bill Nelson who went in the hospital, but not the same person who came out because this is the way he came out, and I've highlighted this next paragraph entirely. While I lay in the hospital, the thought came that there were thousands of hopeless alcoholics who might be glad to have what had been so freely given me. Perhaps I could help some of them. They, in turn, might work with others. In Comes of Age, page 64, he says the following. He explains this a little better. He says, my thoughts began to race as I envisioned a chain reaction among alcoholics, one carrying the message and the principles to the next. More than I could ever want anything else. I now knew what I wanted was to work with other alcoholics. Is that the same guy who walked into the hospital? Absolutely not. So call it what you will. You may want to think he's still dealing with the after effects of the medication they were giving him. Okay, fine. You want to Think he's hallucinating? Okay, Fine. But let's look at the evidence. He never had another drink afterwards. And he dedicated his life to helping others. This was not the same person who went in the hospital. And I hate to end at this point, but I will never get the rest of it done today. So I'm going to wrap up at thispoint. We'll go a little longer if you've got any questions. I'm sorry about that we don't have the review tomorrow. I've got to give my terminal back here, so my router. But if there are any questions, I'm gonna hang around. Let's go to 630. If you want to leave leave if you've got any questions let's bring them up any thoughts uh uh nita is anything in the chat can you hear me yes okay yes i had a question can you repeat the musts from pages 13 and 14 okay on page 13 um i don't have any musts got on page 13 no musts page 14 is a different story page 14 the second line says requirements third line says had to be paid fourth line says i must turn in all things now there are a few more at the bottom of the page but we haven't gotten there yet okay any more in chat yeah we have one more that says uh there's a paragraph on page 12 yes on page 12 that talks about i stood in the sunlight at last and they were wondering if maybe it might be considered a promise and how about it in pink sure look it's your truth it sounds like it could be yeah uh you know that whole paragraph could be a promise you know the icy intellectual mountain i stood in the sunlight at last sure makes sense to me okay uh then we got hands who's first bina we have carol carol my friend carol how are you i'm good how are to be labeled yeah i know um question on page 13 did you say where step 10 is i don't know if i missed that um i don' t think there really wasn't a specific step 10 in this i mean i didn't find any i mean I found 11 in two places where he said test my common uh was testing my thinking by the new god consciousness which is step 11. I was to sit quietly when in doubt asking for direction and strength which to me is 11 so he really didn't specifically have a 10th step at least i didn't see it remember you know there weren't 12 steps when he wrote this there was just the notion of these concepts of inventory of of you know restitution of passing it along and so on okay uh who's next alex uh dustin hey howard uh happy 15 years man thank you so a comes of age the page where chain reaction is on can you tell me which page that was on um when we're talking about um oh the great cathedral winchester cathedral oh uh when he speaks about while in the hospital the thought of the chain reaction of drunks page 121 awesome thank you okay and the other part i read which is the accounting of his grandfather's relationship that's in the the uh susan cheever book on page 17 susan cheever's book uh bill w probably have it in a box somewhere okay who's next okay we have nick nick hey howard congratulations on your anniversary here two quick things um the statement comments i'm glad you explained the statement common sense with us become on common sense because um you know they say about common sense thing is it's not very common and i always thought it should be the other way around in the uncommon sense will become common common sense because the thing that we didn't think was the right thing to do i.e a spiritual solution in our program then becomes the right thing to but as alcoholics it seemed like uncommon sense to actually do that so it would then become common sense so i always saw that that should have been written the other way around so i'm glad you explained it that way and um and the other thing is i like bill's artistic license and the way he writes in that you know he says he was alarmed and he called his friend doctor doctor asking if he's still sane so he phoned him up and then he said finally he shook his head saying something has happened to you but how does he know if he shook his head if he was on the telephone call i just built artistic license isn't it no but he said he called the doctor he's in the hospital he right oh he called the doctor to him right okay all right okay you know he hit the button for the nurse uh just hey all right thanks for explaining that okay you're not gonna to believe this. Thanks, Howard. Bina? Alex. Alex. Hey, Howard, congratulations on your 15 years. Thank you. Two quick points. So I was thinking about what you said about the heavy story and I was Thinking, okay, so Bill was writing this book approximately three years after he got sober and he told that story many times and he probably told it to um to Howard as well so you know what I was thinking when he when he actually wrote the the uh when he edited it and wrote in those additional words perhaps Bill had told him that story because it had been told numerous times you said he had been telling the story for a while right so which makes a lot of sense because you're right that that type of of uh flowery language seems more um characteristic of Bill's writing than if it was just added on. But I think that the message comes through very clearly, and that is that the experience had profound change on him, which made him consider maybe there's a different approach other than the approach to God as of my childhood. So anyway, so that was one thing. The second thing is that when he had the white-out experience in the hospital he had already uh read uh williams james uh the um uh the varieties of spiritual or religious experiences right so he he had always read that which you know i you know which is i think is amazing the fact that somebody who just goes into the hospital uh you know on his last binge has the clarity of mind to be able to read a book like that and yeah but but when he had that i didn't know if when he had that experience if it was before or after he had read that book i believe it was around the same time because when he showed up at the hospital the story that i've heard is he brought that book and gave it to bill and i can't make any sense of that book today i don't know how bill three or four days out of detox was able to make sense of it but god bless him that shows what a great mind he had that he was ableto understand it at any point, let alone three days after detox. God bless you. It says that the next day it was Ebi, I think, who bought me a copy of William James. He doesn't even remember who bought it to him. Exactly. When you read that passage from my previous book, that's what made me think about it. Time up? Is that it? okay yeah go for it thank you alex who's next uh vernon oh thank you burning alcoholic congratulations on your anniversary thank you um first thing quick i know i've heard it and i've read the white light experience so many times when darned if i still can't put where where is it that he gives that full description uh and pass it on he's passing on okay pass it on uh page 121 all right okay good i think that was the primary thing although i was going to say about varieties not not to brag but i'm a doctor of philosophy and i found this so difficult to wade through you have to get all the way to page 484 to get to the bottom line of what james had to say but that's all i wanted to add for what it's worth it's described i read the quote from pass it on on page 121 it's also in comes of age on page 63 on comes of page 63 is the same explanation i just picked this one you know i'd seen it i just didn't know where thanks okay who's next hey anita has some questions so i'm gonna what's up i have a few questions from the chat one is can you please re-explain common sense becoming uncommon okay um up until working these steps my whole life was based on what's in it for me i everything I approach. What's in it for me? What do I get out of it? And I didn't see that there was anything wrong with that. That was common sense. Who's going to think of me if I don't? So, to me, thinking of myself first, what do I Get Out Of It, made perfect common sense, but I am going from self-centered to God-centered, that I'm supposed to be looking at things from the point of view of what would God want me to do here? How can I help him and help my fellow man? So, I'm not self at the center. So, that self, that common sense now becomes uncommon sense, meaning it's secondary. My first thought is of others, not myself. And that's unusual because common sense was think of me first. That now becomes uncommon sense. I hope that explains it. an idiot and what was the other part uh there's another one that says they want to know the difference between spiritual experience and spiritual awakening time in one word time spiritual experience is a sudden revolutionary upheaval a sudden evolutionary change spiritual awakening happens gradually over a period of time as a result of doing this work what bill later calls of the educational variety we do this work we uncover we discover we recover you know that silly expression now that's it we uncovered truth we recover thank you and also was someone with bill when he had his spiritual experience uh god that's it there was nobody else in the room uh who is susan chevers susan chiva wrote a book um oh it's right on top my name is bill w by susan cheever susan chiever is a recovered alcoholic uh her father john cheever uh was a famous author eric osborne has the same book uh it's a great book she loves bill it's very clear in there but she also points out that he had feet of clay it talks about the womanizing it talks about the lsd it talks about the when he was out of his head before he died about wanting to drink all of those things are in here and she says you know world services doesn't like to talk about this stuff but the truth is the truth so that's who susan shiva is and my last question is where is that full description by bill of his white light experience um i just uh on pass it on page 121 okay okay and page 12 you mentioned hank parkhurst a lot she got mixed up between between eddie and hank now i mentioned that hank part curse because hank wrote those four paragraphs when we reviewed you know the thoughts on that sentence i've had those two pages of handwritten notes. That's Hank's writing. It was Hank who said, Bill, put this in. Put these four paragraphs in between those two. So that's why I was talking about Hank Parker's. He wrote the note out. All right. Who's next? All right, that's it. Okay. See if we can get a few more and who's who's next okay um talitha talithah alcoholic congratulations on your anniversary howard um can you just say tell me who the good doctor is dr silkworth okay thank you silky who's next okay we have um tom from tom tom hi i'm an alcoholic my name is tom i'm from montreal canada hey how are you tom hi hi howard congrats on your 15 years man thank you uh my question howard is it was not well like a lot of it was answered there what what is the four absolutes can you refresh my head well like i said i i alliteration remember i remember things by alliterating full p-h-u-l absolute purity absolute honesty absolute unselfishness absolute love p- h-u l purity honesty unselflishness love and that's from the op that's form oxford right yes yes okay that's okay they believe that if you did these spiritual activities restitution amends and so on that you can achieve this state where you would be absolutely pure absolutely honest absolutely unselfish absolute love and they felt bill wasn't pure because he wanted to focus only on alcoholics and not the world but be that as it may those are the four absolutes and that that like they he bill took that those ideas and made put put them into the steps yes that's what they did hey yeah yeah and uh just just the last thing uh i have a spiritual awakening gradually gradually a spiritual waking at times so did i absolutely congrats thanks thanks so much howard thank you okay we'll take one more question and then we'll wrap up but i'll take the rest of the questions afterwards. So don't go away. What's the last question? Okay. I have a question in the chat that says, what drugs or treatments was built on in the hospital? It says it somewhere in Hartigan's book. I don't really have it in front of me. I can get you that answer. I doesn't recall it offhand unless there's somebody here who knows that we have an ample number of historians anyone any thoughts on that i'll get you the answer i just don't want to take the time here i'll give it to you all right john you want to wrap this up and everyone please stay if you had your hands up please stay thank you uh david please read a vision from you um let me get it up here for you hang on i got a hard i got it okay go i had i'll put it back up again no worries okay our book is meant to be suggestive only it's not up okay there you go this is on page 164 paragraph two they said that we should know by now i guess our book has meant to me suggestive already we realized we know only a little god will constantly disclose more to you and to us ask him in your morning meditation what you could do each day for the man who is still sick the answers will come if your own house is in order but obviously you cannot transmit something you have in god see to it that your relationship with him is right and great events will come to pass for you and countless others this is the great fact for us so if you'd like to unmute and we'll say the last paragraph together thank you abandon I was going to ask you to take us out, please. All right, sure. How about a moment of silence for the still sick and suffering alcoholic in and out of these rooms? The alcoholic who may die today knowing or not knowing recovery is possible and for the babies born into this disease. Our Father. all right thank you incidentally uh someone had pointed out in the chat that one of the things that he was detoxing on was he had the belladonna treatment that we've spoken about already that that the hospital used that as their primary detox method but i i read in i think in hardigan's book about some other drugs he was taking but definitely belladonna which does cause hallucinations all right so you know who's great thank you howard happy anniversary yeah happy anniversary Congratulations, Howard. Happy birthday. Happy birthday to you, Howard Happy birthday Next time you sing it Yeah, let's sing it Happy birthday To you Happy birthday To you Happy birthday To you Happy birthday To you Thank you, Howard, and I'll see you in Florida. Yes, you will. Yes, you will be. Who's first? Okay. We have Marcia. Marcia, happy birthday. How are you? Thank you. Hey, Marcia Hey, hey, two questions. All of the musts, things one must do, have those been published anywhere? Oh, sorry about that. You're muted, Marsha. Sorry, Marsa. You're unmuted. Just muted you by accident. Oh, okay. Okay, here we go. Is it published anywhere? I've never seen a book, but I published it. When I do my presentation on That Ain't the Big Book, I dedicate the last part of it to the musts. So if you want that, just ask me, send me an email and I'll send it to you. I will, thank you. Yes, that's what I meant. Glad to. And the second question is, going back to the earlier part of your presentation today, how did the Akron folks think that the word about recovery would speak without a book? being that they really didn't have any other real means of uh you know you know trans state or a national communication per se you know except for you know maybe radio television hadn't really been you know invented or by then and so what were they thinking without a book i have to think they were thinking, well, it's worked this way. Why change it? It's working one to the other to the other. If it works, don't fix it. Okay, just kind of a small kind of... Bill being, you know, the great thinker. Okay. Okay. Who's next? Okay, we have Penny. Penny? I am sharing the phone with my husband, so it's Joe. Yeah, so I was wondering, Howard, what would that inventory process look like that Ebi and Bill went through together in Townsville Hospital? Well, he says he shared his resentments. so he probably you know again the oxford group's inventory was taken by the group you know you sat around upstairs in that room and the group took your inventory so i think the way it looked is just bill told him you know that that these are i'm angry at this and i'm afraid of that and i'm just expressing these deepest things that i've never said to anybody my resentments so So resentment means, again, to re-feel. So he's telling him his angers. He's telling them his fears. He's talking about the harm she's done others. So I think, I mean, that's my take on it. If there's anyone else who's got another way of looking at it, please, you know, speak up. But again, it says, you now, that I acquainted him with my problems and deficiencies. Deficiencies, to me, is another word for defects. so he told him about his being a frightened irresponsible inconsiderate dishonest selfish self-seeking judgmental individual he told them those secrets that that i this is the person i am i think that's the form it took is there anyone else who has a different idea on that well considering the fact that when he wrote the 12 and 12 he used the seven deadly sins and we know that the oxford group was a religious group i mean i would say it probably looked a lot like like what he describes in the 12 and 12 wouldn't you yeah yeah it certainly wasn't anything as formal as we have now you know it's just a conversation and jim burwell story it's funny what you said about you know the the inventory was taken by the group jim berwell said in the early days we did a great deal of taking each other's inventory right and that was alcoholic imagine how that would be going over today hey howard it's todd happy 15 thank you on page 263 it reads that me and bob went up we spent three hours formally going through the six-step program Dr. Bob led me through all these steps at the moral inventory he brought up several of my bad personality traits or character defects such as selfishness conceit jealousy carelessness intolerance ill-tempered sarcasm and resentments so that explains how they're sponsoring back then on page 263 right tell me how you were frightened tell me what you were doing tell me why you were irresponsible tell me how you didn't consider it, or I'll tell you how you're judgmental and self-syncing. Right? Okay, who's next? Does that answer it? I'm sorry. Yeah, I think it, yeah, I was just looking a little more specifically about how we would have detailed that inventory at that particular time and how we end up coming up with a four-column inventory, and now today we have five, six, seven column inventory. Well, you know i it's my belief that those first few pages of how it works were divinely inspired you know there's nothing in bill's history to account for him being able to write what is arguably the most significant spiritual writing since i don't know sermon on the mount so where did that come from uh you know it bill held the pencil but how did it come out to look like that i you know that that's not in my hands okay thanks okay who's next calvin calvin hi calvin hi howard um just to thank you really uh for for eating me straight back um it's my first attending first time attending thanks to share this with my good friend tommy k um i was definitely meant to be here tonight because uh you went through page 13 and uh i've read that before but i never saw the steps hidden in it and that was an eye-opener so uh yeah i was in i was exactly where i was meant to beat tonight so thank you and godspeed dear thank you Thank you. See you in two weeks. Who's next, Bean? Sarah. Sarah. Hi, Howard. How are you? Great. How's things in Iowa? Oh, things are great in Iowa. They couldn't be any better right now, I guess. Oh, happy anniversary, by the way. God's grace, one day at a time. That is really cool. Thank you I have a different take on that. We had kind of had quite a discussion about the common sense versus uncommon sense. And what we had come up with was common sense is, you know, what used to make sense to me, my thinking before what used to make sense to me didn't anymore. The flaws in my thinking were revealed as a result of working the steps, and therefore common sense became uncommon sense, and my way of thinking went out the window and was replaced by true common sense. You know, I was able to ascertain and do things a lot, think a lot differently. It turned out my thinking before I stopped drinking was pretty stupid most of the time yeah i think we're saying the same thing we may be coming at it differently but i think it's about the same things uh who's next okay andrew andrew in hawaii man we're all over the place how you doing howard uh happy anniversary to you thank you and thank you so much for your service um to piggyback on what marcia had uh had talked about about the oxford i'm sorry about the akronites um they didn't want the book project was that because you had mentioned that they had a high success rate and like you said if it isn't broke and if it's not broke don't fix it and if if that's the case why did they eventually leave the oxford movement to get on board with Alcoholics Anonymous because I heard Frank Schneider say that he proposed leaving the Oxford group and he said there was a fight. The Akronites came to Cleveland, there was a fight that broke out because the resistance to leave the Oxford group was that strong with the Akronite. So could you explain a little bit more about that? If you recall, the writing of the book was the third part of a three-part proposal that bill was making that we're going to have this network of hospitals to treat alcoholics right uh presumably dr bob would run that and we in order to get people into that we've got to have a trained like missionaries who can go out and recruit like what they call hooks today there are that we call them hooks for deep for uh for rehabs you know they go out and get people um and the funding of all of those things would come from the book because they said we're going to write this book and they're going sell truck loads of these car loads railroad cars not your car and it's all going to be funded by the book and the people in akron is whoa uh this is bringing in uh profit it's bringing in money it's bringing in um you know things that we don't need yeah so i think that's what it was is it wasn't just the book it was what the book was part of this grand gotcha thank you our thank you okay uh who's next uh anita hey um i have let me see um i had a question about who is herbert schemer and when did they add the spiritual experience explanation to the back of the book okay what's the first one who is herbert why i actually asked that but i got it i got it wrong because i didn't realize this so on page 568 there's a quote by herbert spencer oh right and and i was like did he write this i don't know why but i just like messed it up there but i was wondering because we keep bringing up the spiritual experience appendix on 567 and i'm wondering who wrote it and when it was added okay the spiritual experienced what was was uh added and it was called addendum two when it first put in the book and it It was put in on the second printing of the first edition, and that was March 1941. And it appeared as, quote, the appendix number two. The formal title, Spiritual Experience, was entered in 1955 when the second edition came out. That's when they gave it the title, spiritual experience. All of that is written, if you look in writing the big book, it's on page 601. The explanation of that, that I just basically gave you. And the quote, Herbert Spencer's quote, there's a whole different story with that. That originally was in someone's story, the gentleman who had made the cover up for the first edition, that circus cover, the red and gold. um he his story was in the first edition um i'm trying to think of his name i'm drawing a blank uh ray campbell ray campbel was the gentleman's name he wrote a story called the artist concept that was inthe first edition and at the end of his story he put this quote in and attributed it herbert spencer when his story was removed bill lifted that quote and put it in at the end of um the spiritual appendix spiritual experience appendix but that wasn't added till 1959 the quote of herbert spinster was added 1959 to the third printing of the second edition thank you okay or did you already say who wrote it well that's that that's the that's the interesting part it's attributed to herbert spencer he didn't write it the quote was uh originally written by a british uh theologian named william paley p-a-l-e-y he died in 1805 It was then put in its current form, the way we read it now, by Reverend William Poole in 1879. So it was written by William Paley, reconstructed by William Poole, P-O-L-E, and credited to Herbert Spencer because Ray Campbell read a book where that quote was in it, and it was Spencer's writing, so he figured, well, he wrote it. oh okay but the entire spiritual experience appendix was written by bill wilson okay it was written right because when the book came out i mean if you see the way it starts he said you know that people say that it gave the impression that these personality changes had to be sudden spectacular upheavals you know people were writing bill and saying hey i'm doing what the book says and you know i'm i'm a much better person in my life is much better and i'm living by spiritual principles but i didn't experience this burning bush this sudden experience what am i doing wrong and bill said nothing it's just you having the experience slowly which is a spiritual awakening these other ones that fits had like i had those are sudden upheavals they happen suddenly that's a spiritual experience keep going i'll let somebody else go uh just to answer dustin howard it was the it was 1959 yeah second second edition third printing 1959 was the first on page 602 of uh writing the big book he did get it right it says third printing of the second edition 1959 i have a huge printing of the second edition that's how i know thank you yeah i i did the same thing i i called mike fitzpatrick and he went down in his basement where he has all of the editions and we took out the second addition and it wasn't in there the first printing and he Went to the second printing and it Wasn't in There and the third printing is where it appears so that's it the second edition third printing Is where the quote was put on to spiritual experience spiritual experience itself was added in uh april of 41 under a different name appendix 2 it got the name spiritual experience in 55 got it i just had i had a question about it just because it seems like not many people report that they have sudden upheaval experiences and in this it says they are frequent but are not by no means the rule and i'm wondering if you think that sometimes maybe we might talk people out of their you know having sudden experiences versus you know do you know what i mean yeah but uh bill from his point of view they were they were common he knows a number of him and fits and a couple of guys remember we're talking about arguably 40 people or something like that maybe a hundred so he's saying they're they're frequent i know a lot of guys have there's louis and there's ralph and there'S jimmy you know they all had these kind of experiences but most of us had these other kind of experience i think also howard he's a salesman i think there's some v salesman's pictures coming in there as well as you said at the beginning today yeah right absolutely okay we got some more come on who's that okay we got bill yes hi harrod uh thank you good job today um on those four paragraphs you know that that you referred to uh they may be in hank's writing but we know from ruth hawk that bill liked to stand behind her and dictate as she typed uh we know that these were probably written at the printers you know because they weren't part of the manuscript um so uh i tend to think it's uh bill walking around the room saying all right uh take this down hank you know and so hank's writing as bill is dictating that's just the way i see it perhaps you know it's uh plus i didn't think hank was very religious anyway you know uh at the time wasn't he kind doubtful he wanted less god in the book so um the other thing is uh my my question is uh you know i i was disturbed when i was bringing a sponsee through the uh big book you know we'd sit down and read read the book the white light experience is not actually in the big book and i can remember coming through there and saying i know it says in here somewhere you know that he called out if there's a god you know where is he uh or i need help or and again i was thinking of the other books i guess pass it on and uh aa comes of age you know having read it there um so so my question is did bill have this experience and call up ebby and then they sat down the next day and did the inventory or did ebby was ebpy there doing the inventory and that evening bill had the white light experience which came first that's the impression i always got that he went through this with ebbey and that evening he had this experience uh okay always the way i interpreted it all along so yeah and it makes sense what you were saying earlier because hank wasn't as verbose and as good a writer as bill was so that icy mountain stuff and standing in the sunlight is pure bill wilson to me it really is so and the wind yeah yeah the wind went through me yeah it just sounds like bill if you read hank's writing his story that was taken out he's a bit kooky in his writing so i don't give him credit for that you said what you're saying makes sense and then one last comment what comes to me about the uncommon and the common uh is the george costanza theory if you watch seinfeld he's going to do the opposite of whatever first thought comes to him right make sense do the opposition of everything. That's a seventh step. Okay, who's next? Hey, Marianne. Hey, I didn't realize I was unmuted. Hi, thanks, Bina, and congratulations, Howard, and thank you so much for speaking at my home group last week. It was a great meeting. We appreciated having you there. I have two things I want to bring up. The quick one first, I remember a while back, you were talking about the treatment for alcoholism, something about the purging treatment or something like that. And a couple months back, I was watching a movie on Netflix. It's called The Professor and the madman it stars mel gibson and sean penn and it's about when they were writing the oxford dictionary uh it's an interesting movie it didn't get the best result reviews but i liked it but there is a scene in that movie where sean penn's character he's a schizophrenic in a mental hospital somewhere in england and they're doing like this purging treatment on him where they keep making him throw up is really, so if you wanted to, if you ever wanted to show an example of how that was done, I would suggest checking out that movie and seeing it. So that was one thing. The other thing I wanted to talk about was again, going back to that spiritual experience because on page 14, where Bill says he wanted to ask the doctor if he were still sane and i myself have had numerous of those electrical experiences where it's like a lightning bolt goes through you and i've also had those ongoing gradual awakenings but about nine years ago when i was going through treatment for breast cancer i had about about 30 years at the time I had a very very powerful spiritual experience and I really and I know it was a spiritual experience and when it first happened I was terrified because I was afraid I was losing my mind. I really did. I was like oh my gosh what happened to me? I was scared to say anything to anybody because I was afraid they'd think I was crazy so I waited a while and the first thing I did was I sat down with my spiritual director who is a priest and a very close friend of mine and I told him what happened and I really thought he was going to call people in the white coats and he didn't he said here's the thing he believed me first off which I was like wow um and the first thing he said was very similar to what you said he said did he change you are you the same as you were before and i said no i'm a completely different person i don't see the world life anything the way i saw it before and then i waited so that was reaffirming for me because i will say um I am not the same person I was before I had that experience I I wrote about it in my book I I don't know I'll talk about it on retreats and things like that it's not a typical meeting kind of discussion thing but um but then the next thing I did I waited a little while do you have a question because we just have a few other people too just one more quick thing I was going to, I was afraid to tell my doctor and I finally did tell my doctor and she thanked me for sharing it with her. She believed me as well. So the thing about it is what I want to say is I want to give Bill Wilson a little bit of a break because I have had that kind of an experience and I have felt that. So whether it did happen or whether he embellished upon it, we don't really know. But I'm giving him a little bit of a break here. Thank you. I agree. Who's next? OK, we have Kathy. Kathy from Ireland. How are you? Kathy. Hi. Hi. Hi, I'm Kathy. I'm an alcoholic. alcoholic thanks Howard happy birthday and thank you thanks Bina, David and Nita. Hi guys um so you described beautifully the difference between spiritual experience and spiritual awakening so am I understanding this correctly to say that Bill didn't get his spiritual awakening until um he was visited by ebby and he did what is described at the last couple of paragraphs on page 13 before that he had his experiences he didn't get the awakening until he basically quote-unquote did this work like the steps which weren't the steps then if that makes sense is that right yes he did he did this worked whatever it is such as it was with ebony and that evening he has this experience the white light, being up on the mountain that's the way I always interpreted it that he had these little spiritual experiences that were like little flashes when he sat with Ebby and when he was in Winchester Cathedral but this was a massive spiritual experience that led to a spiritual awakening because he didn't have a drink until his death so something happened this experience turned into an awakening so i wouldn't say he had that spiritual awakening in the hospital that was an experience but it turned into an awakening because it stayed does that make any sense and i'm sitting with it i think i'm getting it um the last thing was bina had it it was a question was what was bill on in hospital little but is it belladonna or you're still kind of no that's not sure he was on belladona he mentioned that you know on previous pages uh but there was something else and i i gotta do some more research i remember there was another drug that he that was mentioned uh besides that perfect thank you so much thanks guys and i think roy is the last one right yeah okay Roy. Howard, happy AA birthday, my friend. Welcome to Florida. I hope that person is still here, but he had the question about the inventories before, you know, from the Oxford group.