The Alcoholic Ego and Surrender – Big Book Study – Part 2 of 7

Tonight's speaker, and his name is Scott. Hi guys, my name is Scott. I am a recovered alcoholic. I'm also a freezing alcoholic. I just moved back from Florida. I'm afraid there's some truth to that rumor about your blood thinning. I may get to the point where the jacket comes off, but don't count on it. Um, I also have a tendency to black out when I first start speaking. So if you see me turning white and drifting on one side, I'll be okay. I will be okay, I say I'm a recovered alcoholic. And a lot of us do that for some of the folks who are easy. Some of the folk who are new to our program are recovered. The reason I describe myself as a recovered alcoholic is for many different reasons, probably the most important one being that I no longer suffer from that strange mental blank spot that precedes the first drink. God of my understanding has restored me to sanity. In other words, I know the true from the false regarding my relationship to alcohol and a couple of other substances. Now, I'm not saying I'm cured by any stretch of the imagination. Our text tells me that I get a daily reprieve contingent upon my spiritual condition. I kind of think of it like this. I can break my arm and have a broken arm. It will heal itself, and I become recovered from that broken arm, but that does not mean I cannot break my arm again. In fact, I've broke my arm several times in the last 25 years as far as this program goes. I've relapsed after eight years, after seven years, after three years. And each time I looked for an excuse, something to hang that on. And what I've come to understand is there's only one reason an alcoholic, in my experience, ever picks up a drink or a drug. And that's because, again, our text tells us that I failed to enlarge and increase my spiritual life. So no matter what excuse my head gives me, there it is. I'm up here this evening. I'm supposed to be talking about the third step. You guys don't believe this stuff, do you? I actually had somebody with 35 years down in Florida say that to me and then I asked him like an idiot to hear my fifth step and a half hour into it an alarm went off. I think it was his Blackberry and he had to leave to get his feet scraped. I know, so what does time in this program mean? Does it mean anything? I don't know. It's impossible for me to talk about the third step and share my experience on it without talking about the first two steps. Again, my experience, and I really pray to God and I hope that I don' t have any more opinions about recovery. I like to think that all I have left to share is my experiences because my opinions get me in a lot of trouble. I believe, and my take on this is that Scott really is two separate entities, and I believe I was born this way. I believe that there is a side of Scott that is a pure spirit, a child of God who was born with that and who went to sleep with that early on. And then I believe that Scott also exists as an alcoholic ego. You know, so I've got that dichotomy. And, you know, for many years I lived out of that alcoholic ego and I've watched it in hindsight rebuild itself many, many times. It is the spiritual disciplines that have been handed down to me by some wonderful individuals that help me keep that in check one day at a time. As I mentioned before, because that's all I have is a daily reprieve. But at any rate, the first step, you know, what we're basically doing, my experience is that we're making an admission that we are powerless over alcohol and that our lives are manageable. And I didn't know what the hell that meant. I came in for the first time in the early 80s. I don't know if there was any big books flying around back then, but I sure as heck didn't see any. And I don' t know, again, not to point fingers, I don''t know if that was the case in North Jersey at the time or if that was just my experience, I feel very lucky and I think that we're all very fortunate to be in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous at this particular point in time where there has been a big book resurgence because I do believe that the program of recovery is found in our basic text, not on the walls, which is how I used to work the program. You know, I would sit there and go, yep, admitted that I've done that, came, yep. And, you know, I relapsed. So in the first step, we're asked to admit that stuff, and I didn't know what that meant to be a real alcoholic until a gentleman sat me down and took me through that. I didn' t understand. I mean, from the time I was 14, 15, people started labeling me an alcoholic, a drug addict, a dope fiend, a lush, all these wonderful things, and rehab after rehab they were saying the same things. It wasn' t until 1999. I originally came in in 86, first rehab in 78. But in 99, somebody actually sat down with me in this basic text and said to me, you know, in order for you to be a real alcoholic, there's certain requirements. First of all, I need to have a spiritual malady, which is manifested in your daily life as being restless, irritable, and discontented. And I could identify with all those things. So he was probably on the right track. I kept listening. And then he said that I also in the first step, alcoholism is talking about having an obsession of the mind. He said to me, that's a thought so big it pursues all other thoughts out of your head. So in that moment of premeditation, when I'm thinking about a drink, I have a patent inability to bring into my consciousness, like the book says, the memory and the sufferings of a week or a month ago. In my case, ten minutes ago. I cannot think of a good reason not to. I've had many thoughts about drinking and using through the years. They were thoughts. every time I've succumbed to the obsession I've gone out I have absolutely no power over the obsession the other part that was explained to me that I needed to have in order to qualify as a real alcoholic is something called a physical allergy the phenomenon of craving that we learn about in the doctor's opinion and I didn't know anything about that I had no idea that my body was sickened as well I had no clue. Been around AA for 20 years and nobody told me that I had a physical allergy. And the last requirement that was explained to me was or asked, are you beyond human aid? What's your experience? OK, has mommy and daddy ever been able to help you? Because I was a kid when I first started getting shipped off to rehab. Lawyers, judges, doctors, friends, family, girlfriends, jobs. Has anything human ever been able to help you stay away from a drink or a drug? And it was very clear to me that the answer was no. So that's my first step experience. And if I have agreed to that, that I am powerless over alcohol and that my life is unmanageable and I've met those four requirements, I'm not doing too good. Where am I going with that? you can't help me and I'm dying of a fatal progressive illness which takes me to the second step where we're asked to come to believe first step I get shot down, there's no hope much like Roland Hazard with Dr. Young and in the second steps we came to believe that some power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity now I had no idea what sanity was I don't believe I've ever had sanity, and I thought the sanity that they were talking about was me wrapping my car around a telephone pole, me cheating on my girlfriends, my financial irresponsibility, the fact that I was a liar, the factthat I would end up in jail all the time. I thought that was the insanity that theywere talking about, and my sponsor at the time looked at me and said, no, that's you being drunk and stupid. The insanity that we're talking about in the second step is that strange mental blank spot. Do you know the truth from the false concerning your relationship to alcohol? And by the grace of God, and as a byproduct of going through this work today, a day at a time, I have been restored to sanity. When I look at a bottle of booze, I do see that skull and crossbones. I understand what's wrong with me. And, again, that's just based on what I do on a daily basis, which takes us up to the third step. And before we start � actually, I think I can take this off now. Guess who took me through the work the first time? I got to tell you guys something. I'm very, very, Very enthusiastic about this program. It has not only saved my life, but changed my life. And I've been given many, many different chances. I love Alcoholics Anonymous, and I am so very, very grateful to be a part of it. In fact, let me express my gratitude right now for you guys giving me the opportunity to participate in my own recovery today. I am truly grateful. See, the thing is, I had a life from a very young age. I had a loving family. I had good, good friends. I had a future. I had some God-given talents. The only problem was I was asleep to those things. I did not have the ability to realize, internalize and understand that which already was. It wasn't until I had spiritual experience again as a byproduct of doing these steps that I became awake and aware of what was already there I was clueless you know I spent my life moving from one bright shiny object to the next whether it be a beautiful woman or a fast car or Harley Davidson whatever the next thing was anything not to deal with what was going on my internal condition, my spiritual malady I was restless, irritable, and discontented. And I spent a great deal of my life trying to avoid those feelings. Now the third step talks about it's such a nebulous thing. It's like I'm going to make a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of God as I understand him. What the hell is that? You know, if you're just reading it off the wall. You know that I heard a guy say, well, turn your thoughts and your actions over to it. You know this is back in the 80s. And I'm like, OK, I had no idea that there were clear cut precise instructions on actually how to do that. All right. Until I was taken through the book. and the young lady just read in the and I love the original manuscript where on page page 60 you know it starts off with our description of the alcoholic chapter to the agnostic and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas and Bill's talking about everything up to page 60 and then he says A that we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives obviously that's the first step B that probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism, the second step, and that God couldn't would if he were sought. And that's pretty much everything up to page 60. And then he talks, there's this stuff in the manuscript about, you know, if you're not convinced at this point, either start over again or throw the book away. I love that. I needed that. I mean, that kind of bluntness to get through to me. I'm sorry that they took that out. But the very next line says, being convinced we were at step three. Which means I had better be convinced of everything up to this sentence or I'm not building my foundation properly, am I? All right? You know, everybody knows all the construction metaphors that Bill's using here. But I've got to be convinced before I can move on to step three, all right? And then it says what the step is, and the very next line says, Bill asks a question. Just what do we mean by that? And just what do We Do? Duh. Okay? I had no idea, but evidently here he's going to tell us. And I find it very interesting. I was looking at this today, and, you know, Bill was an amazing writer, and in my heart of hearts I know that this stuff was divinely inspired. It's just perfect. I found my life on the pages of this book, and this thing was written a long time before I was born. What Bill does on pages 60, 61, and to the top of 62 is this narrative where if you read it properly or the way I was directed to read it by the guys that took me through the book, it's just a narrative where I can substitute my name in what I was taught to do also was to turn statements into questions and when I read it a certain way and ask myself some of these questions it starts to make a lot of sense it says the first requirement is that Scott be convinced that any life run on his will can hardly be a success am I convinced of that has my life up until the point where I've walked into the rooms, asked somebody to take me through the work. Is my life experience that? Has my life been a success? Obviously not. And then it says on that basis, self-will, Scott is almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though Scott's motives are good. Is that my experience? Yeah. Perfectly. Scott tries to live by self-propulsion. Bingo. Is Scott like an actor who wants to run the whole show? Is Scott forever trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery, and the rest of the players in his own way? There it is. And I can do that with everything on the next page and a half. Everything. This part of the book, I mean, is no different from the other part of the book in that it's full of instructions. Okay, it's full of directions. It's full of warnings. And it's full of what I think are some of the most amazing promises I've ever heard in my life. I love this stuff. I absolutely love this up. And before I go back into the book, I want to share a little bit about my personal experience with the third step. And I've probably gone through the work. I don't know, maybe 10, 15 times over the years with a sponsor, you know, to do a formal, you know, fifth step and a ninth step and to get clear on some current experience. I've only had one very, very powerful third step experience. And it's funny because every time I go through again, I'm hoping to have that experience again. And it was with a biker friend of mine named Sam and his wife, Michelle. And this is probably back in the early 90s, if I remember correctly. And we were in their living room and I'm doing the third step prayer, which obviously is in the back here. And I still get choked up when I think about it. When I said, God, I offer myself to thee to build with me and to do with me as thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self that I might bet. But something happened to me that I, if you had the experience to know what I'm talking about, I found myself weeping like a little boy. But I was weeping because I was full of joy. It was like a revelation to me. All of a sudden, all this weight had been lifted from my shoulders. And I was transported to another perception of life, another way of looking at things. That there was a power out there that I could give all this horrible stuff that I've lived to and that he would take care of me if I was ready, like the book says, to follow certain directions. and it was just an amazing thing did I stay sober after that I'd like to tell you that I did but I didn't sooner or later a couple years down the line it took my will back and failed to increase and enlarge my spiritual life but at that point in time I had never experienced anything like it before or since with the third step getting back to the reading Okay. Again, if I keep using that tool of substitution and turning questions into statements for all of 61, just to do a little bit more on the bottom of page 61, this is the stuff I really love. What usually happens, the show doesn't come off very well. Scott begins to think life doesn't treat him right. Scott decides to exert himself more. Ever take seven runs at a brick wall? That's the way I live. Scott becomes on the next occasion still more demanding or gracious as the case may be. Still, the play does not suit Scott. Admitting Scott may be somewhat a fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. Hell yeah. It's not me. they don't know who I am they don' t know how bright I am Scott becomes angry, indignant self-pitying what is Scott's basic trouble is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind is Scott not a victim of the delusion that he can rest or wrestle satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well and I got to tell you guys something That word delusion, you ever hear alcoholics are in denial? You're in denial. Denial of denial. No, that's not what our program recovery says. It says delusion. Denial for me is making believe something's not there. That's denial. Delusion is seeing something there that isn't there. That's a completely different kettle of fish. It's like, you know, me growing up, you know, in the 70s thinking I was some kind of rock star. You know what I mean? Living that life, checking into a hotel with a bunch of friends, destroying hotel rooms, lots of alcohol and other substances, but no venue to play. No encore. But that's how I lived for years. I was delusional and I thought that everybody lived this way and if you weren't, there was something wrong with you. I was delusional, all right? I wasn't in denial about anything. I just stole crazy. And here's the other thing. Can I wrestle satisfaction and happiness out of this world if I only manage well? I've got to tell you guys, I've come to understand that I am a complete and utter failure at life. I have me in and of myself. Scott, remember the two? Pure spirit child of God. Well, that other guy, Scott the Alcoholic Ego, has no clue how to live life. No clue. I'm going to be 50 and I still don't know what the hell I'm doing. On any given day, in any given situation, I am still powerless until I tap into that spirit, until I hit my knees, until I break away and remove myself from that alcoholic ego. And I try desperately to make that conscious contact with the God of my understanding. I can't manage well. It was interesting, I was at a meeting Saturday and somebody was talking about reservations. I can�t forget the exact words right now. You know, you can�t have any lurking notion. Remember the word lurking motion? Or, you know, that you can drink successfully again? I don�t have a lurking lotion that I can drink again. And what I do have and what I discovered Saturday is I do have this lurking notion that I can manage well sometime down the road. And that scares the hell out of me because I can't. All I have to do is look at my experience. Not only can I not drink, but I can�t manage. And I get little tastes of, you know, my unmanageability every single time I try to manage. It doesn�t take long. By the grace of God, he�s got me on a very short leash. So I can't manage, period. Then it says, here's the fun stuff. You know, Bill goes on to talk about our actor's self-centered, egocentric, because people like to call and he talks about the guy who lolls in the Florida sunshine in the winter complaining about the sad state of the nation. The one I always identify with, you know, because I'm delusional, is the outlaw safecracker. safe cracker. I don't know why. Something western and romantic about that. You know, I've always thought society has wronged me and the alcoholic who has lost all and is locked up. That is me. Then it says whatever our protestations are not most of us concerned with ourselves, our resentments, and our self-pity. You Know? Is that my experience? Does that hit home? Did it then and does it Now, you know, I've been told that this book comes up to meet me wherever I am currently. And, you Know, if I can answer yes to those questions, very much like those questions we call the bedevilments on page 52, I can get an accurate gauge of where I'm at spiritually now, not just when I went through the steps the first time. and here's the kicker right here after this little discussion of explaining what it's like to have an alcoholic ego Bill goes finally right to the problem on page 62 and he tells us selfishness, self-centeredness that we think is the root of our troubles thanks just what I wanted to hear All right. It gets worse. Driven by a hundred forms of fear. Now, I'm going to turn this into a question. Am I is Scott driven by a hundred forms or fear? Self-delusion. There we go. Self-seeking self and self-pity. Does Scott step on the toes of his fellows and then they retaliate? Yeah. Does that describe my life? Then Does it describe my life now? Where am I at spiritually today? 100 forms of fear, yeah. Can anybody else identify with 100 forms of fear? I was afraid of everything. You know, when I was growing up, I was like a popular kid, so they tell me. Like, you know, I'm talking about seven, eight years old in the neighborhood. You know what? I remember one time we were playing stickball. This is a young room. Anybody remember stickball? We were playing stickball, and the ball went down the sewer. I don't even think I had touched it, but somehow it was my fault inside my head, my internal condition. I was up in my bedroom looking down at the guys playing stickballs, but I was too embarrassed to go back down there. I was crying. That's the kind of stuff that went on in my head. I was responsible, self-centered, selfish. Everything was my fall. I could not differentiate where Scott stopped and the rest of the world began. There was like no membrane, all right? I was everything. Everything was me. I would wake up in the morning in my house when I was a kid, and if my parents were screaming at each other, I've got an older sister, if they were arguing, it had something to do with me. If I woke up and the house was in turmoil, I was in turmoil. I could not separate myself from it, all Right? It's a horrible, horrible way to live, playing God and feeling responsible for everything, you know. So here's, Bill gives us the problem, selfishness and self-centeredness, a hundred forms of fear. And then he goes on to talk a little bit more before he talks about the solution. He says, so our troubles we think are basically of our own making. They arise out of Scott and the alcoholic. And Scott is an extreme example of self-loathing, though he usually doesn't think so. And here comes a warning. It says, above everything. Now do you think he meant above everything? Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of selfishness. Let me see. Above everything. Because I'm an alcoholic, I've got to think about that, right? Above everything we must be red of the selfishness, We must, not kind of, sort of have to, but we must. Okay. We must be rid of the selfishness. Oh, and what does this say? We must or it kills us. Does that sound like a warning? Okay. Tough stuff. We mustor kills us, but then it says, and thank God it says this, God makes that possible because I sure as hell can't do it, all right? And then there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of Scott without his aid. Many of us have moral and philosophical convictions galore. Anybody ever have any moral and philosophical convictions galORE? I'm a good guy, right? Do unto others, right, treat other people the way you want to be treated. You know, unless there's only, you know, this much scotch left, you know, or a couple of lines left, then it's, you Sorry. Got to go. So I couldn't live up to that stuff. Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power, all right? I'm going to do better this time. I'm gonna be nicer. I won't be such a jerk. Yeah. All right. It says we had to have God's help, all Right? I don't know if that's a warning, but it does seem to me like a clear-cut, precise instruction. We had to have God's help. Then he says, this is the how and the why of it. Here's what I've been waiting for. How do I take the third step? All right, again, it's such a nebulous concept. He's going to tell me, first of all, first he says this is now how and why of It. Okay, here it is. Here's the answer. First of all we had to quit playing God. Okay, so here it is, the first one. I've got to quit playing God. It doesn't work. I didn't need that sentence. I already knew that. Next we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, God was going to be our director. And I think what Bill was doing for me, my experience is he's trying to give me a whole new way to look at life, my relationship to God, and my relationship with God. My relationship to my fellows. Because I had no way of doing that. It was all about me against the world, all right? I'm going to wrestle satisfaction from this world. I'm gonna do this. I can handle this. I can deal. Aye, aye, aye. But this says no. Here's another way to think about it, Scott, all Right? It says from now on, he's going to be the director. Well, what does a director do? Everything. All right? Think of a director on a soundstage of a movie, all right? He's the guy in charge, all Then it says he's the principal, we're his agents. I happen to be an insurance agent, that's what I do for a living, so I can grasp that concept. I represent the insurance companies, I'm licensed to do that. They're the home office, I'M their agent, so from now on, God's going to be the home office and I'm going to BE his agent. There's an easy concept for me to grasp. Then it says he's the father and we are his children. All right? Speaks for itself. Most good ideas are this simple, and this concept was the keystone. Everybody knows what a keystone is, right? Think of an archway, the stone in the middle, that when you pull it out, the whole thing collapses. Do you think he thought this was important? Do you thinks he thought that this was a foundation? He's the most good ideas were this simple. And this was the concept, the keystone of the new and triumphant arch to which we pass to freedom. So I decided at that point, and every time I go through this, that that's how I'm going to think about things from now on. And then for me, it becomes amazing because in the very next paragraph, depending on how you read it, I get anywhere between 12 and 14 promises. This is the most amazing promises anyone has ever made me, all right? It says, when we sincerely took such a position, what position? He's the director. He's to follow in his child. He's principal on his agent. When I take that position, all sorts of remarkable things followed. I don't know if that's a promise or not, but this one is. It says Scott has a new employer being all-powerful, all-poweredful, From now on, the guy that I think is my boss is just writing me checks. He's not my employer. I have a new employer. And you know what this employer is going to do? He's going to provide what I need if I keep close to him and perform his work well. That's all I have to do to get a life. I've got to stay close to God. I've got to sacrifice 20 minutes in the morning. That's really hard for this promise. I've Got to stay close to God and do His work. Let me see. I've GOT TO sacrifice 20 MINUTES some days 3, some days 5, and I've GOING TO WORK WITH OTHER ALCOHOLICS? Can I do that? Is that hard? I don't think so. Not for that promise. He's going to take care of me. established on such a footing actually let me move on before I move on to the next one I just want to tell you a quick one my current sponsor had a good job and he was running a facility and he actually lived on the facility it was a school and I was there he got laid off with no notice whatsoever they walked over to him and said buddy you've got 24 hours to pack up and go and I'm standing there. I don't remember if I was standing there exactly when that happened or if I came over to just hang out right afterwards but I heard about it. He told me about it but he was just like kind of hanging out and now understand, he doesn't have a house. He rented out his house. He and his wife at the time were living on the grounds. This was his total source of revenue, of income. This is what they lived on and he got like an hour's notice and 24 hours notice to get off and he's joking around and he is laughing like nothing happened and I am like how do you do that I don't get it because I am so full of drama if I got fired I would have my head down I would be upset he said Scott what does the third step say he goes I have a new employer being all powerful if I stay close to him and do his work well he will take care of me And he goes, Scott, how many guys do I work with? He goes, have you ever had employees? And I had in a prior life all the business. He goes if you have a good employee, do you take care of that good employee? And the answer obviously is yes. If you have somebody working for you that does a good job, you do your best to accommodate that employee and you meet him where he needs to be met so he'll keep working for ya. He says, Scott I got nothing to worry about. I'm one of God's best employees. And that rocked me. I never thought about it like that. How do you face life successfully and not worry when the big stuff happens? And there was my answer right there. I got to see that. The next promise, number two, he provided what we needed if we came close. I'm sorry, it did his work well. Number three, established on such a footing we became less and less interested in ourselves, because I am so sick of myself by this time, our little plans and designs more and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute to life number four as we felt new power flow in so if I'm powerless and I really understand it I get to feel new power flow in pretty amazing promise right there as we enjoyed peace of mind has anybody in here ever experienced peace of mind before being exposed to this stuff? I couldn't sit still for three seconds, let alone 30 minutes. Peace of mind, everything's okay. That to me was an extremely powerful promise. Then it said as we discovered we could face life successfully. Well, I'm a failure of life and this is telling me I get to face life successfully. Another amazing promise. As we became conscious of his presence with a capital H, it says I'm going to begin to lose my fear of today, tomorrow and the hereafter. Now I've been driven by a hundred forms of fear my whole life. Everything in my life is fear based. I'm not enough. I'm Not Good Enough. I'm Smart Enough. I'm Good Looking Enough. I'm Bright Enough. I'm Sharp Enough. I'm Fast Enough. I'm Tall Enough. If I'm not any of those things, and I'm scared about, you're going to find out who I really am. And this says, I'm going to lose all that. I don't even have to be afraid of death anymore. For the longest time, I couldn't get on a plane. Got to a point where I couldn'T even get out on a highway in my car. I get to lose ALL of my fear. If I stay close to God, then I do His work well. And then the last one, it says we were reborn. I get a do-over. I get to live a life worth living. Who's making promises like that? Really? Who? Nobody. And then it says now we're at step three. many of us said to our maker and then we do the third step prayer I love it so I'm just going to read it one more time God I offer myself to thee to build with me and to do with me as thou wilt relieve me of the bondage of self that I may better do thy will take away my difficulties that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help with thy power thy love and thy way of life may I do thy well always it's not about me anymore it's about me being of maximum service to God and to my fellows and to the guys that I work with and then there's a trick Phil tricks me he says we thought well before taking this step making sure we were ready that we could at last abandon ourselves utterly to him why didn't they tell me that before the prayer because I'm an alcoholic and I would have had to think about it I'd probably be dead by now last paragraph in the third step says we found it very desirable to take the spiritual step with an understanding person such as our wife, best friend or spiritual advisor, everybody knows these days most of the time we're going to do this with our sponsor but it's better to make out alone the wording is of course quite optional but I think most of us use these words seem perfect to me and he ends the third step with another warning I'm feeling great, I'm feeling good, everything's going so far by this point in time maybe I'm sober a few weeks, maybe I're sober for months I got some coin back in my pocket, you know, I've shed 15 pounds of excess sugar from booze, I got a job maybe there's a little girl that's interested to me everything's getting better and then it says the warning is this was only a beginning it's just a beginning that's it and it's as though if honestly and humbly made an effect sometimes a very great one was felt at once but this is just the beginning just the beginning and y'all know what comes next I'm not going to talk about the fourth step but there's some action that needs to come immediately the word is next we get into our fourth step I could talk for days about this step I really could it's the last time that we don't have to actually take any action you know all we have to do is make a decision and here we have the clear cut precise instructions on how to do that you know, we've got the warnings we've Got the directions we've GOT the promises this is a direction manual I'd like to there's a few minutes left I want to thank you all once again and open it up for questions questions and comments Just one thing you said about not being sure, having moments where you're not being sure God's will is for you. I suffer from that a lot. Whenever I get there, it's really easy for me now. It's to be of service to those around me, whether it's in the rooms or not. That's always the right answer for God's Will for me. Thanks. I don't know what the definition is just my experience with it is very simple denial is making believe something's not there delusion is seeing something that isn't there big difference I'm delusional I'm not in denial about anything If I'm hearing you right, the question is how do you know when you're ready and what's it like? I can only share my experience. I can't answer that question for everybody. My experience after being around a room for quite some time and working with a lot of people is when are you ready to stop dying and start living? I'm not shy about talking about God because, you know, for years in this program, I would actually, these words would actually come out of my mouth. This is during the 80s. I would actual say, I'm cool with the program except for that spiritual stuff. When indeed, that's all there is, is spiritual stuff . So, and again, my experience is, you now, I was sober a year again, And on the fellowship, I had done it for eight years on the fellowship without the instructions in the book. Then I had done it three years of the fellowship of a sober motorcycle club, Moore Fellowship, and had a moment of clarity running around. I'm a runner. I was running around a high school track. And all of a sudden, I was on my knees crying. And I couldn't understand why. And then I had this moment of clarity and my moment of clarity was maybe these guys are right you know maybe you don't know what you're doing maybe you're a failure at life maybe you should seek god that's the way it came out and you know god hooked me up with the right sponsor but when do you want to stop being miserable you know i i try to get the guys that i work with um up to their fourth step in a couple of weeks, depending on the individual need. I know that back in the day they did it in afternoons, not months and years. You know? I've had the experience of being around people where if they didn't get to inventory quick, fast, and in a hurry, they were going to die. So, I think it's different for everybody but I don't see any reason to waste. I hope that was helpful. It's also, God, of your experience not mine. I think it's God individual we all experience God differently and by the way I only use the word God because it's short and it kind of gives you some idea what I'm talking about I have no clue I don't pretend to we seek him we don't really I don' t know him we're out of time guys once again thanks for a great meeting we have a nice man closing Thank you for listening.