Sponsorship and Urgency – , Charlie P., Katie P. London PPBBS 6/26/10 Workshop – Part 1 of 3 – Chris R.

out to the mic. Howdy, my name is Chris Raymer, I'm a very grateful recovered alcoholic. This is going to be good. I'll tell you what we're going to try to accomplish here, okay? Like I said, best laid plans, you know. We'll probably all go to hell in a handbasket, but this is what we're going to try to do anyway. We want to try to do today, we want to go through the 12 steps from a standpoint of taking a newcomer through the steps. Now I know some of you guys, you've had a sponsor sit down and read the book to you and how cool is that and we're not going to do that and so we're gonna... One of the biggest problems that we see in our fellowship today is that we've lost our sense of urgency and we'll talk a lot about that And there's a, I'm going to kind of give you a little overview here. And then we're going to allow Charlie and Katie to kind of elaborate. We're going do like a step at a time. And then move on to the next step. It should be pretty simple to do. One of the things that we're gonna ask you guys to do is again with the questions is like before, I don't know how to explain this. If you ask a question at the end of this, we're going to be able to answer that for you we'll repeat the question for the tape so it'll be on there but what we would like you to do guys is get to cut to the chase with these questions i know a lot of you guys have done ask at baskets and the guy gets up and starts to talk and we hear his life story 15 minutes and he the preamble of why he's asking the question and the reason and his perspective and then he gets around finally to asking the stupid damn question and it's like and we can appreciate that if we had the time it would be fun to do i mean i would We'd love to hear from everybody, but ask the specific question. Guys, I've got to tell you, there aren't any gurus in this place. I can assure you that. I got sober in 1987, and Charlie's been sober a long time, Katie's been silver a long Time, and we want to come up here and share some of our experience with you. That's all we want To do, and we're not – this is not – we didn't come up from Texas to show you Canadians how to do it. That's not what we're about. You're free to agree or disagree with any of this. We don't need to hear why you don't agree with what we just said. ask the question and we'll give it a shot to answer the question as we see it. And you can just throw it right back out the window if you want to. Y'all cool with that? And we can make some real tracks with that because y'all ask great questions. There's a guy named William White down in Florida that wrote a book called Slaying the Dragon. Some of you guys might have read it. It's a great book if you get a chance to snag it. He's written several articles, and some of the articles that he wrote specifically talks about this little window of opportunity. Now, William's been around the recovery community for a gazillion years and wrote extensively with some other authors I could mention and you would know, but it's beside the point. The point I'm making is that he talks aboutthis window ofopportunity for alcoholics and addicts to get sober. And I don't know a lot of you guys, y'all heard me speak from the podium before about this, but you know, you know you get the little newcomer, he comes in and he gets his feet on the ground and he starts to do the work and all of a sudden he explodes. He's just as excited as he can possibly be with us and some old geezer over in the corner is making fun of him. Oh that old Johnny, he's on a pink cloud now you know because everybody's laughing and waiting for him to bust his ass you know. And this is exactly what Johnny's going to do if he doesn't finish the steps. There's a window that opens for most of us. Bill Wilson experienced it in Towns Hospital. Can you imagine what would have happened in Towns Hospital and Bill Wilson's having his barn-burning spiritual experiences and Dr. Silkworth runs in there and shoots him a little Thorazine in his ass to bring him off that high, you know, because he wants to... You know, oh, we don't want you to get too happy now. You know? Days away from a suicide attempt, but all of a sudden you're feeling some real hope for the first time and there's always some pessimist, some pissant pessimist in the room because they're miserable, wants to bring everybody else down. You follow? Guys, this is about excitement. This whole idea. But there's this window that we can get through. Now if we will work the steps in that window while we're feeling good, then we can gets on some rock-solid ground. We're not going to stay that spiritual high all the time, but we're going to return to that spot a million times the rest of our lives if we can't get on some solid ground. Does that make sense, guys? That's what we're after. And so I know that some of the fellowships that may be in the room with us today I belong to some of these other fellowships that really, really talk hard about going slow through the work. And I have nothing against any of those fellowships except that. I think there's a very strong reason that we need to work these steps rapidly. Because my experience is this. I can sit for a period of time and feel pretty comfortable. But when the obsession to use that Charlie's going to talk about comes back, I'm going to drink. I'm not going to think it through. I'm Not Going to Call My Sponsor. I'm Going to Drink. I have years of experience with that. And the guys that I sponsor, I get to watch them do the same thing. So I don't keep anybody sober. This is in a sponsorship situation and I'm working with a new guy. It's not my job to keep you sober. My job is to get you spiritually connected. And we do that by doing the work of Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. That's the way we were taught. And so if you can do that, we can understand where the power comes from. It comes from God. And that's one of the issues that we want to talk about later today is that we have a whole lot of people that believe that this sponsorship deal is about taking people on to raise. You know, I'm going to... Katie said it, used the term last night. I thought it was so appropriate. I'm gonna be your life coach. Listen, I can barely remember to zip my own pants in the morning. And I don't know what to tell you. I'm not really sure about being your life coach. I've never walked a day in your shoe and I'm going to tell you what to do, you know? This is ludicrous. And I know a lot of you may disagree with that. But my job as a sponsor is to get you through the work at a quick pace to allow you to have a spiritual experience and have you have a fighting chance to stay sober in this world. And along the line, I can hold you accountable. And that's what we do in a sponsorship situation. I'm no longer a sponsor. I'm one of these guys that take these guys on to raise. And again, we'll talk more about that. I want to show you a couple of things real quick and then let Charlie get up here. This little circle triangle that I drew up there. I drew it up there? What's in this stuff? This is a little circle-triangle. It used to be in the front of our books on the title page of your book where it says the story of how many thousands of the men and women have have recovered ed someday before i die it's going to be the coolest thing to go to a conference and have everybody introduce themselves as recovered alcoholics or just alcoholics if i never hear the ing word again it'll be too soon for me i'm a grateful recovering alcoholic why don't you finish the work and get well we need your help let's go You can recover from alcoholism. We've got to stop watering this message down to the newcomer. Listen, you can hear it. My counselor in treatment said that we will always be recovering. Your counselor was wrong. Bill Wilson, guys, I don't know how many times. I'm sure we've got guys in here that can tell you how many times in the 164 pages it says that you're going to recover. Recover. You either are or you're not. Y'all understand? Guys, that doesn't mean we're better than anybody else. It doesn't means that we're perfect. We've recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. I haven't obsessed about alcohol or dope in 22 years. Why not live in the daylights when I want to walk into an AA meeting full of newcomers and introduce myself as someone who is still sick? Bill Wilson in the book, we can show you later, gets crystal clear when he explains it in the books. He says, this is a quote, quote, introduce yourself to the new man as a person who has recovered. I didn't write it. So why would you want to take the advice of somebody else that may... This is the message that we're supposed to carry, the big book about Alcoholics Anonymous. This is what we're talking about. I went to a treatment center one time that told me that I could get well if I just took massive quantities of vitamins. Who knows? I don't know. They seem to help. I was constipated for six months, but they... And I drank, but I felt better. Y'all understand that? But I'm not going to go in an AA meeting and share that stuff. It's good information. Some of the guys I sponsor, I talk to them about vitamins. We can do that. Y'ALL UNDERSTAND? Let's give the newcomer a clear representation of what the program is about. In 1987, after my suicide attempt, I went into the rooms, And that very night, they opened the title page of the book where it had that circle triangle on the book. And we've since lost it in the United States with our copyright stuff. I've got rubber stamps up here. I've already stamped some of your books. And I'd be more than glad to put this stamp back in your book if you'd like it. We'd stamp it. Charlie's got one too. And that's what we do when we travel around because this is the way you can stay in all three parts of this program. Recovery Unity Service. And the old geezer looked at me real quick to go through it. He says, Chris, what's recovery? And I finally bumbled around to say the 12 steps. And he said, that's correct. have you worked the 12 steps? And I said, I'll never forget. I said I'm working the steps to the best of my ability which translates to in layman terms, no, I am not working the steps. This is so much crap. He's like, no I'm not. I've worked some of the steps. He said, but that's not what we're talking about. Have you worked all 12 steps and I said no and he took a little X and X'd a little I was, I'm a testing kind of guy. Don't x me you know and he said what's this other piece what's this unity piece i said that's meetings he said right you go into meetings absolutely because meeting makers make it and he rolled his eyes and he says yeah okay i'm going to give you that one and he checked that unity he said service i said our sir our services making coffee and stuff he said that that's not no what's our primary purpose carry the message to the newcomer oh but you don't have a message do you And he X'd it. You'll follow? I didn't. I'm drinking and my spirit is not awakened. I have no knowledge about the 12 steps. I can't transmit what I don't have. He X'd him. So let me get this straight, Chris. You've got a three-part problem, three-par illness, you've got an exactly one part and you wonder why you can't stay sober. Guys, any of you guys in this room that are having trouble staying sober, this is why. You don't need to look at your stupid issues. You don' t have to look at the external stuff. This is why Because the people that are in all three parts of the program seem to be able to walk through the bad stuff with grace and dignity and come out the other side. Make sense? I sit in meetings with guys that get diagnosed with cancer and just walk right straight through it and never even think about taking a drink. And I work with guys that haven't worked the steps with us that are not in all 3 parts. They pull out the sock drawer one morning and can't find 2 black socks that match and they crumble in front of me. God hates me. oh my god oh my God we're gonna blade in the sock drawer for that I mean I don't know come on come on I get to participate the 12 steps are not a self-help program folks but I get to participate in my recovery by working these steps and I will get spiritually connected even if you don't believe in God you're going to get spiritually connected and that's just been our collective experience don't knock it till you try it one of the reasons I want to show you back over here in this Dallas these little statistics real quick. This is so not scientific, so any of you guys that want to come up at coffee break, let's talk about something else because this is not scientific. We've got guys out there beating us up from the podiums talking about these stats that we were talking about for years out here. We monitored these forever in Houston, Texas and Dallas. I've got the stats running but these are the last ones hot off the press but just give you a graphic kind of a piece of what's happening in our fellowship because a lot of people out there believe that everything is perfect in our membership because they're perfect in our scholarship. you know but if you pull your head out of your and look around a minute you kind of see that things are kind of goofy in places in places. In Dallas, Texas right there the desire chip count we sold nearly 17,000 desire chips in 2008 intergroup y'all know the little desire chip you pick up we do same stuff in Canada one month chips if you stay sober 30 days in Texas they'll give you a little one month chip a little red chip we sold 5,102 you see a slight drop in number there oh my god we've been monitoring these stats since 95 and this in this percentage of drop hadn't changed a goddamn bit one year chips if you stay sober a year we give you a little bronze chip like some of you guys showed me yours last night 987 one-year chips i've never seen it over a thousand in all the years we've Been monitoring it okay you had nearly 17 000 people walk in the room, screw their courage up and ask for help. And less than 8% managed to make it to the end to pick up a chip. You ought to see what happens after five years, after seven years. Y'all understand this? One of the reasons is that it's clear to us is because the sense of urgency to finish this work, the clarity in our qualification process of finding out if the alcoholic is really one of us, you with us? So that catapults them into this process of getting well. I mean, guys, in 1955, and the book went into its second printing, we had a success rate in the United States of 75%. Nobody wants to question those stats. They're real. In 1955, we had 75% getting well In 2008, we have less than 8%. And everybody thinks everything's just great. Oh, they just don't want it. Of course they want it, But in 1955, the newcomer was sat down. The book was opened and they were explained to the newcomers what we needed to do in order to have the spiritual experience. You with us? Nobody was walking on eggshells around this God stuff. Nobody was talking about it. They weren't walking on egg shells around these folks. They were just telling them, guys, this is what we have to offer. You want it? Come on. If you don't, go away. Make sense? We've turned into a social gathering instead of a spiritual program of action. And this is where we kind of need to flip things back, I think. So, I got an email real quick. I'll let Charlie up. This is from a guy that my buddy down in Florida sent me this email. He said, and I'm going to delete enough in here so that you can't tell who this is, but they had a speaker meeting with an old geezer in there for about 59 years sober. And from the podium, this guy shared that he's an atheist, that his gambling addiction was worse than his alcoholism, and that quitting drinking isn't rocket science. All you've got to do is make up your mind to quit and quit. Sister goes, and then the little new guy sitting in there going, I can do this. I'll just decide to quit and everything will be okay. To hell with your steps. You know what I'm saying? And it's like you've got people all over the world watering this message down and we as a fellowship have just stood here and watched it. I'm not watching it anymore. I think there's a bunch of us in this room I know that are speaking up and trying to make some changes here Basically, what we're going to talk about today is the reasons for this and perhaps get us some clarity around what this is about. This is not rocket science. We don't want to make this as complicated as it can be. I work in the treatment center field, folks, and I know there's lots of people out there that every time you turn around, somebody's writing another book about how to work the steps. It's just like, guys, I don't know what to tell you. We had a pretty masterful thing happen here in 1939 when this book was published. The steps are outlined in the first 100 pages. I've got little handouts out here to kind of show where the steps are in the book. If you've forgotten, you want to kind of take a folder page and stick it in your book to help the little newcomer understand what this is about. This will be fun. Again, at the end of this hour we'll allow you guys to ask some specific questions and then we'll move on and then before lunch we should get through the first three steps and we'll see what happens after lunch. Cool? Let's try to be real quick on the breaks, guys. Go smoke real quick because, boy, I know how that goes. smoke too, but smoke them out there and then hurry back as quick as you can and then we can start on time and keep this thing on track. Cool? Alright, here's Charlie Parker Thanks Chris I don't know where to go from that There's a lot of good stuff there I really don't like him belittling my sock issues, though. I mean, sometimes that can be a real problem. You know, I'm Charlie Parker. I'm a grateful, recovered alcoholic. It's over since March 22nd of 1985. And I love what Chris was saying. And I really like this thing about, you know, what they used to do back then and what we do now. And we're going to be taking a little different approach today, Rather than just talking about the steps and how I would want to experience the steps, we're kind of talking about how I Would Take a New Guy Through the Steps. And sometimes that's a little different. And sometimes I've taken people through the work that are brand new and then up to 22 years of sobriety going back through the works. And there's a significant experience still available for a lot of us in the steps no matter where we're at. But this thing about diminishing returns and stuff, you know, I really think that back in the times he was talking about, we used to be a recovery program with a support fellowship. You know, we had a recovery – we had clear-cut directions laid out in the big book, and then we had meetings where we would talk about that message and we would talked about how am I going to carry that message to the new guy? What do I do when he says this? And what if he brings up this? And what do you do? Well, then I go to this page and I talk about this. And the meetings were a lot about that. And then they said, well, we would set aside one meeting a week for the newcomer to talk about his problems and for everybody to get together. But the rest of the time they're talking about getting in the trenches and how do we get this message out and growing and understanding and effectiveness, as the book says. And somewhere over the years, and if you've sobered up in the last 25 years, even in the last 30 years, you've come into, it seems like we've kind of generated into a recovery fellowship with an optional program, you know? I mean, you could just go to the meetings. And I don't really think that Bill and the founders and those guys ever dreamed that there would be a time that somebody would be able to stay sober just off of going to meetings you know and and uh and and we can for a while and if you're a real alcoholic it it worked going to just going to aa meetings will keep one of us sober right up to the point that we get drunk you know uh and now i in a and it may stretch it out and i may blow up a marriage or two and blow up few businesses and and that sort of thing and you know constant collision with something or somebody the whole time but if i'm if i're a real alcoholic you know it's the it troubles coming you know and so just just so that's what we talk like to talk about sometimes and is that going to alcoholics anonymous meetings is wonderful i love the fellowship of alcoholics that one side of the triangle that he's talking about i love it but it doesn't treat alcoholism just going to meetings does not treat alcoholism. If you've got it the way I've got it, so what does? So what are we talking about? He referred to this book right where we stamp it. They took this out of the book in 1993. They didn't ask me about it, they just did it. And they really didn't answer a lot of people about it. There were some lawsuits flying around and they just went, oh, we don't want to engage in any controversy, so they pulled it out of book and in my mind they could have just stopped suing people over it but it was sorry did i say that um but you know we've been putting it back in one book at a time but you know i uh i like and we do an exercise in our lineage of sponsorship where we check in with the circle and triangle and you can get an idea where a guy is real fast by saying where are you at in the circle triangle well i went to x number meetings this week and service i did this and i did that i'm sponsoring this many guys and uh and then recovery um you know if anything i'm weak in 10th step i only did like you know four evening reviews this week and you know i only didn't my morning disciplines you know it's not like that and you can get an idea where somebody is pretty quick so anyway i'm scattered all over the place but the i want to get back to what we're going to try to do is step one in this deal and i think katie'd probably like a little time she's oh i'll get done yeah But Katie's told me already, she goes, oh, I'm in between two bulls here. I can see this is going to be trouble. See, we've had times where we've been at a meal, and she'll probably tell you about it. Katie is generous with her opinion sometimes. We'll be sitting at a table, you know, with a bunch of guys, and the guy will give his take on something, and I'll give my take on someone, and Katie will start. I didn't even realize we were doing it when one of us started to talk, and then I'm like, I want to go get some more salsa, All of a sudden, the other guy gets up to fill his tea. And Kenny's like, you sit your ass down and listen to what I'm about to say. I'm an AA member. Anyway, you'll see some of that energy this weekend. We're going to have some fun. But I wrote up here on the board, problem, solution, program of action. That was the big thing that happened when AA hit the ground. What made AA a big deal was an understanding of those three things, An understanding of the problem, an understanding of the solution, and then a program of action that will bring about that solution. Because if I don't know what the problem is, why would I care about the rest of it? Or I might not have the level of energy I'm going to need to pursue the rest of it. In fact, Dr. Bob had spent two years in the Oxford movement. He knew They had a program of action. Some people call it a six-step program, whatever. Well, they didn't, but whatever you call their work. And he knew the solution and he knew the program of reaction, but he didn't understand the problem. And then if you read about The Certain American Businessman on page 26, Dr. Carl Young understood the problem and he told this guy, you've got the mind of a chronic alcoholic, and he even knew what the solution was. He says here and there once in a while we've seen people have these uh spiritual awakenings he says to me these things are phenomena but what did he not have he didn't have a program of action that would produce that spiritual awakening you know it doesn't it's it's like if i go out here and uh my car is won't start i i can't go anywhere but but i don't understand what the problem is yet you know but so then let's say I look in and I've left the headlights on, right? Now I know that we've run the battery down. We understand what the problem is, right. Am I getting ready to drive home? No, because I've still got a dead battery. So now what's my solution? Well, we've got to get some juice into that battery, okay. All right, we need to get Some Juice in the Battery. That's good. Now I Know the Solution, still not getting ready to go anywhere, you know. But now if somebody, you know, if Chris pulls up and says, okay, I'm going to pull my truck around here. We're going to raise the hoods. We've got jumper cables in the back. We'll put black on black and red on red and I'll rev the engine up. Well now we've got a program of action that will bring about the solution to my problem. Does that make sense? Okay, so let's talk about the problem in alcoholism because it was a big deal. And I talked about it a little bit last night. I've been banging my fist together out here for a long time. But it's a two-part illness you know and it's it's in the doctor's opinion has some interesting stuff in here on roman numeral 26 uh silkworth had written an opinion about this stuff and he goes the physician who gave us this letter has been kind enough to enlarge upon his views in another statement which follows in this statement he confirms what we who have suffered alcoholic torture must believe that the body of the alcoholic is quite as abnormal as his mind well i've been banging around aa meetings for a long this might sound like common knowledge but back then it was pretty revolutionary because and i don't know i was kind of that way when i got here what i used to feel kind of awkward saying the disease of alcoholism because i knew that i was just kind of a moral weakling and a screw-up and and you know and you Know disease my butt you You know, you're just trying to let me off the hook here. I'm going to screw up. I didn't really understand what the real problem was. And a lot of people didn't. And those of you that were here last night, we talked quite a bit about getting here thinking when I would promise you that I'm not going to drink again and I would drink again and why that is. Well, it says, it did not set us to be told that we couldn't control our drinking just because we were, I love this part. When Chris was talking about being a life coach, It's like, here, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm maladjusted to life. I'm in full flight from reality. And I'm an outright mental defective. And I'd love to be your life coach. I'm incapable of telling the truth from the false. But it says these things were true to some of us, to a considerable extent with some of them. But we're sure that our bodies were sickened as well. In our belief, any picture of the alcoholic which leaves out this physical factor is incomplete so what are we talking about here when we get it when chris talks about being a recovered alcoholic and it's been funny because i've been on both sides of that deal i can remember when a guy would say i'm a recovered alcoholic i think well you arrogant sob you know i mean you don't really understand the you know the depth of this disease and stuff and it is and like so many other things i talked last night about i love to read things that i agree with i like to I like to, I'm sure this sets me apart in our fellowship, but I like to look for ways that I'm already right and I become where no more information is coming in because all I can look for is ways thatI'm already right. You know, when I'm reading stuff and that sort of thing. And then you explain something to me and I go, oh, remember Roseanne, Roseanna Dano on Saturday Night Live? You know and they'd say something to her and she'd go never mind you know i mean but but it was that way with that when they laid out that we're not talking about that i've recovered uh that i could successfully drink alcohol again what we're talking about having recovered from is a hopeless condition of mind and body and that's the greatest gift god can give an alcoholic like me when i came into this program that's all i wanted was out from under you know if you you know I couldn't get I came in for the same reason anybody else came in and no matter how long you've been sober whether you've been sober a month or five years or ten years or twenty years everybody in Alcoholics Anonymous has had day one we all know what it's like to not be able to get through one day without taking a drink and that was what got me here in fact it wasn't even back on page 152 it talks about one day he'll be unable to imagine life without alcohol but that's not what brought me in now Alcoholics Anonymous. It goes further to say one day he'll be unable to imagine life either with alcohol or without alcohol. It says then he'll know loneliness such as few men do. He'll wish for the end. He'll be at the jumping off place. That's what brought me into AA. I knew I couldn't keep going on drinking the way I was drinking, but I couldn'T imagine not drinking. You know the deal. When the girlfriend says, if you don't stop drinking, I'm leaving. And, you know, I just remember thinking, God dang, I mean, I don't want you to leave. I love you and I'd like for you to stay. And I'll taper down or maybe we'll do less of this and we won't do any of that. We definitely won't doing any of it. But, God damn, if we're talking about nothing, you're probably going to need to go. you know because i can't imagine life you know without you know on the natch you know because i'm so uncomfortable sober so that kind of so what this problem solution program of action is a big deal but the book the problem is such a big dealing chris talked on it last night that the bulk of the recovery portion of this is in the first 103 pages of the book and the doctor's opinion so like 113 pages is is about our salute you know is our whole recovery program and the back chapters are um you know to wives family afterward to employers and a vision for you about the growth of the fellowship later but of those 113 images over 50 of them focus on the problem because if you're drunk like me you got to come at me from every possible angle you know of escape because i'm going to try to wiggle out somehow to not have to be like you because if i'm not like you then i don't have to do what you do right well um in uh there's another place where it talks about having shared in a common peril was just one element in the powerful cement which binds us the feeling of having shared a common parallel is one element and the powerful submit which binds us, but that in itself would never have held us together as we are now joined. The tremendous fact for every one of us is that we have discovered a common solution. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree and upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action. This is the great news this book carries to those who suffer from alcoholism. This book doesn't wait long to start making promises to me. Right there on that cover page we talked about it says how many thousands of men and women have recovered from alcoholism so what are we talking about recovering from we're talking about recovering a hopeless condition of mind and body and I've touched on it a little bit last night but the shortest version I can give is that I like I said last night I have two problems with alcohol one happens when I drink it and one happens well I don't drink it now and it's those two things coupled together that make me alcoholic what are those two things it's this physical allergy that the doctor talks about if you go to roman numeral 28 xxviii if that's not a mouthful um iii um says we believe and so suggested a few years ago that the action of alcohol in these chronic alcoholics so who are we talking about here chronic alcoholics we're not talking about little you know just have a couple of beers here and there We're talking about chronic alcoholism. It says the action of alcohol is the manifestation of an allergy. I like to break this stuff down because these are not words that I used getting here. I never used, did anybody ever say phenomenon or manifestation? You know, I mean, it says it's the manifestation, a chronic alcoholic, a chronic condition, there's acute illness and there's chronic illness. Acute illness is severe, but you can treat it and it'll go away. Like pneumonia and some of those things. And there's a chronic illness like diabetes that you can treat it, you can control it, but it's never going to go away. Does that make sense? So alcoholism is like that. I mean, it's a long-term deal. It says these chronic alcoholics that the action of alcohol is the manifestation of an allergy. There's a lot there. A manifestation. All that means is how something shows up. How something presents itself. And then it says of an allergy. And an allergy is just an abnormal physical reaction for our purposes here today. It's just an abnormally physical reaction. If ten people eat strawberries and nine people do fine, and one person, their throat swells shut and my eyes close and I can't breathe and you've got to take me to the hospital and get a big shot of Benadryl, you'd say, I have a pretty good little abnormal reaction to strawberries, right? So this manifestation of an allergy is how does it show up? I'm also allergic to poison ivy. Anybody else allergic to poisoned ivy? And, you know, the manifestation of that allergy is that you get a rash and it itches like crazy and if you scratch there and scratch somewhere else, then you got it there. So that's the way that allergy shows up. How does my allergy to alcohol shows up? That the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class. Limited to what class? this class of chronic alcoholics so that this craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker last night I talked about one definition of alcoholism here's another one it says that this manifestation that this craving is limited to this classic chronic alcohol and never occur in the average temperate never is less than half the time you know it says so what is this phenomenon of craving? When I take a drink of alcohol, I've got this weird physical reaction to alcohol that I can't control. I can'T control it 25 years sober. When I take a drinking alcohol, it triggers a craving for more alcohol. And you know, it doesn't really matter what Charlie Parker says or the book even says if you don't take your own experience and lay it up against what this book is saying and see if it's a fit when we get as we get into this stuff just look at it and go what's it like when i drink what's It like when I try not to drink does this fit is this the way it happens when I drink when I decide to go have a couple of drinks do I go have a couple drinks or do I blow the whole paycheck you know and then when I come out of dress where this is never going to happen again and then it happens again you know so well we're not gonna I don't want to spend a lot of time on the phenomenon of craving, but it does say the message which can interest and hold these alcoholics has to have depth and weight. I love Alcoholics Anonymous because it was the first place I'd ever been around people that were talking to me about my drinking that drank like I did. If you drink like we do, you're used to people wanting to talk to you about your drinking. You know what I mean? There were times when people would want to sit down and talk about my drink, And usually right after I'd wrecked a car or lost another job or blown something like that. But it was never, my mother talking to me about my drinking didn't have any depth and weight because she didn't understand what drinking did for me. Well, down there it says men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that while I admit it's injurious, after a while I can't tell the truth from the false. You know how I can't tell the truth from the false sometimes? I'm a guy sitting in his fifth treatment center going, I really don't have it like you've got it. I think I can get out of here and still tweak this thing a little bit, you know, and I've got zero evidence to support that, but I can'T tell the true from the fault because in my mind I still think I CAN get a handle on this, and if you understood all the conditions of how I got into detox again, you'd understand that it wasn't really the booze. It was just, you know, bad luck. And then it says, my alcoholic life seems the only normal one. I thought about this when we were going through customs yesterday. Because at one point in customs, this last time, they go, the guy goes, how many times have you ever been arrested, Mr. Parker? And I was like, yeah, I mean, I've told you. And he goes, how many times? I say, you would have better access to that information than I would. You know, I really don't. But, you know, when it talks about our alcoholic life seems the only normal one, I was like, what's the big deal yesterday when they were talking about it? And what I use as an example a lot of times about my alcoholic life seems the Only Normal One, you want to hear something strange about the general population? You know, most people go through their entire lives without ever being arrested. Is that startling to you? I mean, if I went to my mother and said, you know, I've got to go see my PO today and give him a, I've Got to Take a UA because I've GOT a DUI, she would have no idea what I'm talking about. You know, but for us, that's typical conversation. You know what I'm saying? Oh, wow, yeah. I can tell you how to beat a UA. Well, so, but what happens? We can talk a lot about this physical allergy, that when I drink, and I got ample evidence in my history to show that no matter what my plan is going into a drinking episode, it never works out like that. You know? And I used to think that I was just a screw-up. Like I was saying, when I would start drinking again and it would get away from me, I thought I was a script. I didn't understand that I had triggered this phenomenon of craving that was more powerful than I am. So when I got that money to go get everything out of the pawn shops and I just stopped by to have a couple of drinks, I didn' t understand that l'd triggered a phenomenon of craving and now I've hopped on a train that I can't control where it's going, and I spent all the money, and it happened over and over again. Okay, to move forward, this phenomenon of cravings, have we kind of figured out what that is? Are you all pretty hip on that one? It's a big problem. Not my biggest problem, though. But over on page 23, it says these observations. Let's turn to page 23. This is a big one. Turn in your hymnals to page 23. It says, because looking at the body, I've got it written in my book right under that first line under there. It says looking at The Body stops here on page 23 because what does it say after that? It says these observations would be academic and pointless. I always translate that to mean wouldn't mean squat. And I don't always say squat. But these observations, what observations? All these observations about my physical reaction to drinking would be pointless if what? If I never took, if my biggest problem is what happens when I drink, what's my solution? Don't drink. I mean, how hard is that? Remember Nancy Reagan's little Just Say No program? Does that work for anybody? After a while, it's just say yo. The difference between my allergy to alcohol and my allergy to poison ivy is that I have never one time in my life, and I am wildly allergic to poison ivory, but I have not been allergic to it. I have ever one time been out for a walk in the woods and looked over and gone, oh, I think that's poison ivy. You know, and off comes my shirt and just roll in it, you know. Because I don't have a mental obsession with poison ivY. You know when my poison ivE gets away I don' t get so uncomfortable and get to a point where I think that the only thing that's going to make me feel better is poison ivy. But vodka does something special for a guy like me, you know? I mean, how many... I love Chris's brother talks about how many of us remember our first drink and I mean it's widespread across the board and he always goes, do you remember the first time you ate green beans? You're like, no. It's because vodka does something special for a guy like me. It's the first thing I'd ever found that would fill that hole. And so my biggest problem, and that's what it says. It says, therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind rather than in his body. If you ask him why he went on that big run, again, he'll give you some reasons. But in his mine, he doesn't really know why he got loaded any more than you do. That was that thing we talked about. and that is universal i've talked you know everywhere you go if you say when they say why'd you start drinking again we all say the same thing i don't know i don' t know you know well it's what we're talking about here is that this mental obsession that happens and this happens when i'm sober right if you go back to roman numeral 28 he says they are restless irritable and discontented unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort oh how nice is ease and comfortable you know that just that feeling of just he clancy says one time that he described that real well that feeling of a drink going down and hitting bottom and that ah and he said he saw two newcomers get up and leave the back of the room you know but it says that sense of ease and comfort which comes at once from taking a few drinks you know they just you know that when you're sitting there and you that just right when it's just kicking in it's like oh you know and it says now here's where it gets tricky it says drinks they see other people taken with impunity you know what impunity means it means they don't get punished for it it's the same root word as punished or punitive These guys, when they take a drink, it doesn't cost them their house and their car and their job and their girlfriend and their dignity and their self-respect and all the values they grew up with. They just go have a couple of drinks. But for me, it triggers something much better. But I get this restless, irritable, and discontent. This is talking about in dry periods. This isn't talking about when I'm drinking. It says, you know, and restless, irritable, and discontent. You know, restless is, you Know, after a couple of weeks I start getting a little jumpy. You know what I mean? I just don't really feel like, Bob says it's like a dog that can't find his spot. You know? Just circling and circling. You know if I'm inside I feel like I ought to be outside. And, you know, I just – and then irritable, we don't have to go into too much detail about irritable. But after, you Know, I like what a friend of mine at Blind Dave at home talks about, you know, they used to say, don't go over to Dave's house, he's drinking. And then after a while they'd go, oh, you don't want to go over To Dave's House, he's not drinking. You know, because after two or three weeks of not drinking, I get a little bit irritable You know, I mean, you know when you're in the grocery store and the guy in front of you has got 14 items in the 10-item lane. And the reason I know is because I counted every... You know? And I mean just after a while. And I love the way Clancy describes it where he talks about it's like somewhere in the night somebody stuck in and installed a spring in my gut. And every day it just gets tightened down a little bit more and a little Bitmore and a Little Bitmore. and then discontented is the last stage of it and that means i just start not liking the deal i'm getting you know i don't i'm not being treated right i'm Not Being Treated Right at Work my wife the kids the guy next to me at work i'm doing all the work and he's making three dollars an hour more than i do and you know and you Know That sort of thing and after a while i get thirsty you know it what happens is that spiritual malady it's a three-part disease i believe it's a three-part disease there's some discussion about out there but i believe something drives this mental obsession and the closest thing i've ever come to is that is that spiritual malady but the book doesn't discuss the spiritual malty much till we get up into step three but something makes me so uncomfortable that it triggers that mental obsession so what happens is i get so uncomfortable and when i've had something that has given me relief before in the past I don't remember consequences when it comes time to take that first drink. When I need relief, I don' t think about consequences. Some of those slogans, you know, I've spent some time in AA doing a little slogan slinging. You know, when I was just in the fellowship of AA and not so much in this book, I had a period where I, you kno, it's a tough spot. I'm not going to ask for a show of hands, but you know what it's like when you're just kind of going to the meetings and not really doing the deal, and somebody comes up and says, hey, can you help me? And you're like, well, let's see. I'll put the plug in the jug, right? That's a good one. Oh, and don't drink no matter what. That's another one. That's that's a great one. And go to 90 meetings in 90 days and take this book and, well... Read... Well, just read the whole thing. You know? And I'm really kind of hoping they don't call me back because I know at that point I've got nothing to give them, you know. So, I mean, I've been on both sides of that. I know what that's like. And, you Know, so to have gotten back into this work and catch fire with it, the coolest thing in the world is when a guy comes up and says, Can you put me through the work? You're like, Absolutely. You got a big book? If you don't, we'll get you one, you KNOW. And, I Mean, let's sit down and we're not going to take a lot of time at it. And Chris and I and Katie were all on the same page with getting this work done fast. Because if I believe what we're talking about here, I had a guy one time that I'm sponsoring him now, but he had a different sponsor. We were out on the golf course, and he was telling me, he goes, well, you know, my sponsor told me this isn't a race. You know, don't get in a big hurry to work this. This isn't the race. And I was like, it kind of is. You know? Well, I mean, it really – I mean because go back to page 24. Let's go back to page24. Because it says at a certain point in the drinking of every alcoholic he passes into a state where the most powerful desire to stop drinking is of absolutely no avail. Now we all know what's the only requirement for membership in AA? A desire to stop drinkin' will get me a front row seat in an AA meeting. But it says right here on page 24, it won't do a darn thing to keep me sober. It says right there, the most powerful desire to stop drinking is of absolutely no avail. Right? The fact is, and I said it last night, if you can make up your mind to stop drinking and pull it off, you don't even have to come to AA. You don't belong in AA. This deal is not talking about that. It says, the fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called willpower becomes practically non-existent. I am unable, this is the key line, at certain times to call into my consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. And it doesn't matter whether that's my suffering and humiliation or my family's suffering and humility. I can't call it to mind with sufficient force to ward off the first drink. It says, I am without defense against the first drank. So, it says, I can not call to mind the suffering and humiliation of a week or a month ago, so it implies to me that there is a window of opportunity between that hit and bottom. You know over there where it talks about that terrible cycle? When I come out of that terrible circle, It says, emerging remorseful with a firm resolution not to drink again. Anybody ever come out of a run like that? Oh, I feel terrible. You know, and I really didn't mean to spend the whole paycheck. And I know you gave me the rent money to run over there, but I just stopped in to see the boys. And, you know, well, and that firm resolution, it says, I can't, I've got to, between that time of hitting bottom and the time this mental obsession comes back and the mental obsession is going to make me powerless over taking that first drink and when I take that first drank it's going to trigger the phenomenon of craving and then we're off and running again I don't know what that window of opportunity is whether it's a week or a month or whatever to get this guy in touch with the power but to me that's our race is between the time I hit bottom and the times that mental obsession is on me again I need somebody to get me in touch with the power because my power is not going to get the job done. And that's what we're going to roll into when we roll into step two. But the problem is so important. On page 30, and I talked about it last night, it says, We learned that we had to fully concede to our animal cells that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we're like people, other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed. So that's what we're doing here is that I'm not fixing to get a handle. Fixing is a Texas term. It means preparing to. It doesn't mean repairing. It means pre-pairing. So I'm Not Fixing to Get a Handle on This Deal. I'm NOT about to turn this thing around, right? And, you know, and so to me, we're about to roll into, you know, when we roll into step two, we spend a lot of time in the problem because it says it's such a big deal for a guy like me to have what I call a step one experience. And if you've ever worked with guys and you see a guy have a step one experienced, I mean, I just say guys, a person have a step on experience. It's unbelievable. You know, you got a guy that's been I've seen it happen with guys that have been banging in and out of treatment for 18 years and you had a guy come up to him and he goes i have never heard the stuff you're talking about i've been an aa for 18 years i've never put together more than six months i've never heard anybody talking about the stuff you're talking about and it explains just like we said back in the doctor's opinion it explains a lot of stuff i've never been able to explain you know and so uh it's it's critical stuff and and you know the first seven pages of working with others talks a lot about how we how we make this first visit to the guy and what we talk about but it but it talks about going back and having an understanding of this thing because it's just critical that i'd be able to break down and chris talks about qualifying the new guy. It's a touchy topic in AA, but I don't think it's fair to just because the guy shows up in an AA meeting to assume that he's one of us. Am I done? You're done. Okay. So anyway, that's my thought is that we have that X amount of time to get this guy in touch with the problem because the thing about the problem is it drives me through the rest of the work, right? If I have that step one experience where I understand to the core of my being that on my own I got no shot, then the rest of this work gets really interesting. Does that make sense? I'd like for my lovely wife, to come up. I think I have seven minutes. What could a woman know in Alcoholics Anonymous? I'm Katie. I'm a grateful, recovered alcoholic. I swear to God, you women know, boy, when we run with the boys, we just have to kick your ass. We really do. And I told Charlie, I said, and Chris is, Chris, well, Chris loves me. And that's a good thing. And my husband loves me, but he and I can go toe-to-toe because the truth of the matter is I suffer from alcoholism. I got the bug. I got to deal. But I'm also running against boys. And anybody knows that that's tough. I'm not kidding you. I can sit there with the boys at a table, and I'm waiting to get in. I'm waitin' to get it. I'm watin' ta get it, and then when I get in, they shut it down, and it pisses me off. And here's the deal. I got the power. I'm tellin' ya, I got da power. so god dang we got over there constantly giving the stink eye so here's the deal I'll just sweep it up oh I'm aware how much time I have so you guys can imagine and I swear I know the girls are out there just going thank god we got a ballsy chick up here man uh so here we go we're all grateful honey i know i knew you would be i knew you would i've been sober since uh uh october the 28th of 1984 and for that i am very very grateful uh i i will tell you guys in in 25 years of sobriety though uh charlie and i are real real open to tell you we absolutely were middle of the road we absolutely we're meeting based sobriete i had no idea that's what i was did not have a clue i had no idea i wasn't carrying the message i had no idea it wasn't working the program of alcoholics anonymous and um oh you'll find out fast enough right i mean either you're going to want to kill yourself or you're gonna want to drink i mean it's you got two options and and you're really quite shocked when they happen that you that you're at that feeling but the truth of the matter was is i i could not have sponsored a new guy period at 15 years sober i had no idea how to take a new guy through the work and that's what when we when we come and do these things we're here to teach you just like we were taught how to take the guy through it's all about teaching and passing on right and so there's tons of cds out there and there's there's great teachers that are good at the way that they word things some people connect more with others but the truth is is if you don't learn how to do it then you've got nothing I mean it's not like all of a sudden you went to sponsorship school right and and one day you know people go well I'm I don't think I'm ready bullshit you're just scared you know you absolutely are ready and I'll tell you what your pride your ego will force you to get into the work. When somebody comes to you and says I need help, now I'm not talking about the complete middle of the road guy that does not have, is not armed with the facts but I'm talking about you guys sitting here you knew who you were coming into. You guys knew that if Chris was going to be here you were going to go ahead and get your butt kicked a little bit or you're on our team type deal right? And so what you have to do is you get out there and your pride and ego will keep you in the work. If somebody comes to you with a question, you're going to find out the answer, right? So you may not do it for yourself, so that's not a bad thing about our ego to get involved. My husband does such a fabulous job at The First Step and I really do give him a hard time about giving me a few minutes, but the truth is I love his first step. I'm a huge fan of Chris. I love that Chris steps out here and talks about the truth and he does it in a way that i admire uh so my job is just going to really sweep up the first step only because they've already given so much about it but i i want to talk about consequences do not keep us sober in this program and there is such a strong misunderstanding of um people coming in saying i need to get sober for my kids or i needto get sober to do this or i need toget sober to that and consequences are not a bad thing i'm telling you none of us came in here just because we burnt the toast. I mean, consequences brought us in here, right? We had people on our ass telling us, you better get sober. The only thing is it will not sustain sobriety, but it'll get my attention. And so consequences aren't a bad thing. And when you're working with a new guy, you've got to identify all of those things. You know, when they say, well, you know, my, and I'm such a, I'm a girl, but I think I'm boy, but I always refer to guys because the program is geared to guys speaking, right? But I mean men and women, but I'll refer to, you know, that the guy comes in and says he's going to lose his wife just because that's how we're all raised with the book. But the truth of the matter is a woman comes in, and predominantly she's going to say they're going to take my kids, you know? And wouldn't that be wonderful if that would keep me sober? How heartbreaking. That makes me just want to cry. How heartbreaking is that, that I cannot stay sober and you're goingto take my children? And I work with women at Family House. That's really my passion. I got sober when my daughter was five. And they lose their kids. One chick left out of there because they wouldn't give her her cell phone. She walked away from two of her children. That was it. That was her done deal. She was off the record, kids gone, period. It's heartbreaking. And you really want to see the rubber hit the road, man. You sit there and Charlie goes out there and works with the guys and they're out there doing yoga, lifting weights, you know, volleyball. ball. And Charlie goes, my wife's over there working with the girls. They got a kid on their lap and one in their belly. You know, he said, you guys got it easy. And I'm not downplaying it, but boys don't get me wrong. You got heartache and pain that comes from children too. But I'm talking about in treatment, you know, the different environment. And you got these gals sitting in here and they said, man, they're going to take my kids if I don't get sober well you better be armed with some facts if you really want to help this gal and i've brought in you know when i was uh kind of getting the message and coming back in man i was trying like i said that ego was really really pushing me into looking into the book and trying to help these guys and i i'd brought a middle-of-the-road gal with me and didn't know it right she wanted to get back into the work and so we're sitting there and i'm beating them with the allergy and i'm beaten them with The Mental Obsession you know and and they're sitting around listening And then I let her share, which I will never do again. And now I run the meeting solely. And she says, you know, just don't drink. And I swear to God, it was as if I remember the girls go, that's all I got to do? And it was kind of like what you said, Chris, about those gears. You know, I went in there and told them this is what you got to Do. This is what You got to DO. It's going to be some work. It's gonna be tough. It's Gonna Be This. it's going to be that you're giving them hope and all of that stuff. And she comes in with just don't drink. And this one girl goes, I'm going to put a big sign up on my refrigerator. And I sort of got on to slap the crap out of her after that. You know, I thought, God dang it. You know, stop. Now granted, she didn't know any better. You know what? So it was my job to teach her. But I did, by God, after that thing was said and done, I really told her, I was like, I can't believe that was what you brought, I mean, I'm just coming out of this middle-of-the-road stuff too, but I know better than to just say that. Well, I wrote down a couple of things here and I'm going to jump all over the place now, but one of the things is too when you're working with that new guy is the qualification is crucial. It really is and it's dicey, but you know what? When I'm one-on-one with you, I don't care. I'm not going to sit there and lob it out in an AA meeting about qualifying a guy because I'm going to just get hit with arrow after arrow, but I will when I sit down with the individual, I will qualify them because the truth of the matter is my sister is not alcoholic. My sister is very untreated Al-Anon, but you can pour enough booze in her to get her a DWI, right? And the judge is going to tell her she's going to have to have some AA meetings. And she's an untreated Al-Anon, so what does that make her? She loves us, right? And you get an untreated Al-A-Non that you poured enough booze in and they come into an AA meeting and we're their drink, right. And they like it in here. They like it a lot in here They like the alcoholic like them lots. So they stay, right, But she's not an alcoholic. And she is rah-rah, sis-boom-bah, you know? I mean, on an energy level, we can smell a drunk, can't we? As a matter of fact, if I really like you in AA, that's the highest compliment you can have. I mean... Actually, the highest complement is when I tell you I would have drank with you. That's... And that's what we're talking about. But have you ever sniffed out the one where you go, no, that's not even a drunk, man. They are not alcoholic. Stay away. Stay away! Code red. Left-hand side. Nerd. Here's another tip, too. when I'm speaking allergy I go out every week and I do a first step I go into a treatment center fortunately we have the ability to go into treatment centers and carry the message and we do Charlie and I are firm believers of beating that first step into them we're not going to come in there and share our story over and over because these folks are lucky to get any book in treatment it's heartbreaking but it's the facts And it's the way it is in Texas. And so we're in there, you know, beating the first step, beating the first up. And the way I explain the allergy is they have most people have never heard the allergy. They don't have a clue about the allergy, they don't have a clear idea of what it is. They don' t have a clue about the mental obsession. They just drink too much or do too much drugs. They don''t get how the whole thing works. So when you're explaining the allergy to the new guy, I use it as like a tomcat. And I said, the truth of the matter is, or excuse me, a cat. I said if you're allergic to cats, you're the person who says, man, Mary, come on over. Hey, do you have any cats? I'm allergic to rats. You're verifying all of this ahead of time before you go over there. Now here's the deal. If you're allergic to cats it doesn't matter if that cat is a tomcat or a Persian. It's still a cat, right? And one of the things where people get confused, especially the new guys, they say my drug of choice. And you go, man, I don't know about you, but I mean, I know what I spent my money on, but I'll do whatever you got. You pull out anything and I'll take it. What do you think that is? Okay, I'll try it. I mean there was no, oh, you don't exactly know what that is. I mean, after about 15 minutes, somebody's going, so what's happening? I don't know yet. I can't really. Give me a minute. And so, you know, for me, I've got the allergy to anything that alters my mind. If it's going to alter the way I feel, I want it, right? And so I always try to tell them, you Know, because they're in treatment. They get that whole drug of choice. And I love the way Mark said, drug of choices, Advil. You choose on a daily basis if you have a headache, you might take it. And if you don't, it stays in the cabinet, you know. But there is no choice in what I'm going to do. And so, you Know, when we're talking about triggering that allergy, you know, for me and you guys that have been, you know, around a while, you've got the guy sitting in Alcoholics Anonymous who is not doing any work, right? Hadn't read his big book, really doesn't have a sponsor, doing meeting-based sobriety. He has no clue how close to the edge he is. and this is how his allergy is going to manifest he all of a sudden you know bites into something breaks a tooth and he has to go get some dental work right no big deal broke a tooth dental work kind of expensive but not good and the doc says well you're going to need a little vicodin he goes oh i am going to needs a little Vicodin yeah and he goes so he takes that Vicodine he's walking around with the malady all over him right he's the he's the person in the meeting that's grumpy and pissy and hates everybody and blah blah blah and triggers that allergy. And the next thing you know, he's rescheduling for more dental work. See, that's what we're talking about an allergy is if you're sitting around with that mellow, you're not doing anything. I don't care if you got 30 days or 30 years, that allergy is just sitting there waiting if you trigger it now if you have if you're if you are spiritually fit and you have to have medication for something i believe god makes that into medication i really do believe that and i believe that when you take it it doesn't even feel good i can't wait to get off of it kind of creeping me out that's shocking i don't get that but it does and uh and a lot happens in 25 years, you know what I mean? Okay, I've got to wrap it up since my husband took up all my time. But let me think, let me think, oh and here's another thing I want to tell you when you're working with that new guy, right, because this is what this deal is about, teaching you how to sponsor that new guys, you're qualifying him, you are getting him into this deal one of the things, another term I like to use with them is when we trigger that allergy, once again that allergy is crucial that they get that It's not the only problem, because if it were the only problem, all we would need would be detox, right? Just remove me from the booze. But we've got a mind that's always going to take us back to the boozed. And here's the deal. I always get him to show a raise of hands in treatment as to how many of them have been through treatment more than once so that he can see that treatment is not treatment for alcoholism. It's merely a reprieve, right? You're going to get 28-day reprieved and you damn sure better do these steps because you've got no shield when you step out there. But because the way that ego rebuilds, and we'll talk more and more about that. But the, okay, oh, damn it. Lost my train of thought. Okay, the allergy. I'd like to see a show of hands if you have them. Okay, honey. He loves me so much. Give me a second. Give me one second. The allergy and the obsession. Give me a second. And they have the allergy, and they get removed from the allergy. Oh, okay, got it. Thank you, thank you. Okay, here it is. And so when they go, when they get out, they go. You know what? it was bad but it wasn't that bad because the ego has rebuilt right and i mean things are kind of getting tough and that spring is tightening so i'm just going to have a little right and so what happens is they have forgotten the allergy and when they drink a little or do a little of whatever their outside issue is they trigger that allergy but the way they think it goes in their mind is that they've changed their mind, that they're not going to do it again. They've decided to just have a couple more. Yeah. See, and so when you're working with the new guy, that's an important way to explain what that looks like. So when you guys stop to go just have a few drinks today, I mean, I know I was in treatment and I know everybody's watching me, but I'm only going to have two drinks this time, just two beers. That's it. And they trigger that allergy and they think they've change their mind to have four. but in fact they've triggered that allergy so when you really start talking to them that way i mean these lights start going off and that new guy and it's unbelievable and then the one last thing i'm going to say is you know the book talks about in every um almost every promise in the book there's there's really ugly promises right it says it gets worse never better that's a promise right god that's got three weeks it gets worst never better and that's the truth and that'S important for that new guy to know that there's promises that are of great hope in this book and there are some ugly promises but the one thing too is it always talks about peace of mind, that we will have peace of mine. It never says we're going to have a big fancy car and a great job and people love us, ticker tape parade you know and when I walk in the room everybody's going to go hey Katie but it says we will have peace of my mind right? And that is that ease and comfort that comes from the first drink right that's what chris was talking about last night i all i want is this thing to shut up i want that peace of mind and what ends up happening is we're used to taking a couple of drinks little do we know we've triggered the allergy and we're going to wreck the bus but we can't see we overshoot the mark right and so i just want those couple of drinks for that ease and comfort and the book promises me peace of mine almost after every step which is pretty cool. And so now are we not going to do the questions and answers now? We're going to have a five-minute break. Pee and smoke. And thank you guys.