Working With Others – Workshop – Part 3 of 3 – Peter M. and Simon C – Peter Marinelli and Simon C

Welcome back. My name is Simon Clarke and I'm a Grateful Recovered Alcoholic. We're going to go to one on this session, I think. One, exactly. Yeah, so we've got about an hour and a half. And there is nothing that I would rather talk more about than working with others and the 12-step work and sponsorship. throughout the book if you read the big book and I've seen some of you reading it even right from the start in the very very early chapters forward to the first edition talks about 12 step work forward to the second edition mentions 12-step work multiple times Doctor's opinion in the third paragraph on the doctor's opinion it says in the course of his third treatment he acquired certain ideas concerning a possible means of recovery as part of his rehabilitation he commenced to present his conceptions to other alcoholics impressing upon them that they must do likewise with still others 12-step work. This has become the basis of a rapidly growing fellowship of these men and their families. This man, and over 100 others, appear to have recovered as a basis of working the 12 steps, again carrying this message about the program to other alcoholics. He talks about it in The Doctor's Opinion there. Bill's story talks about 12-step work. Bottom of page 14, you know, Bill writes this, For if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life... And I sometimes come across people and they say, you know, I'm getting spiritual, I am doing this, I working on my spiritual life, I doing that, I'm doing this and I'm working on my spiritual life. Well, I try not to take this out of context because Bill Wilson says, for if an alcoholic failed to perfect an enlarging spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others, that's how I perfect and enlarge my spiritual life. Through work and soul sacrifice for others. If he did not work, he would surely drink again, and if he drank he would surely die. Now there's a condition there. What he's saying is if I don't do 12 step work, if I won't work with others, I will drink again. He writes also it's the design for living that works in rough going. See, if I'm not doing 12 step work and I'm having a rough time, what I see now is that I end up sharing how bad my life is with you. Telling me what a bum deal I've got. Basically I'm backing self. But the design for living that works in rough gumming is the 12 step work. He said here many times I've gone to my old hospital in despair or talking to a man there I would be amazingly lifted and set on my feet. What I see happening in Alcoholics anonymous, is many people going to AA meetings in despair and sharing it. But they're not working with others. Bill writes about that a lot. In the chapter more about alcoholism, we're given three examples. We're given Jim the car salesman, we give him Fred and the other chap who was, I don't know this guy's name actually, the accountant who basically made a decision not to drink until he was successful in business. It's the truth, it's conditional sobriety. Yeah, the man of 30 doing a great deal of spree drinking. Now if you read these examples carefully, watch what Alcoholics Anonymous do with the individual when he relapses? Alcoholics Anonymous continue to work with these individuals. Jim the car salesman, and I'll always make reference to this, because Jim the Car Salesman, what I understand, he did the first nine steps because his family were reassembled and he got his job back, which to me means he took some action and was getting some results of the action with the family being reassembled. I believe he worked the first nine steps. But with Jim Picasso's mum, he failed to perfect his spiritual life. He failed to enlarge his spiritual life. See, it all went well for a time after the ninth step. He fell to enlarging his spiritual wife. How do I enlarge my spiritual life? I just explained it, what Bill writes in 14 and 15, through work and self-sacrifice for others. So it indicates to me that Jim didn't do 12-step work. To his consternation he found himself drunk half a dozen times in rapid succession. Now here's an indication of good 12-stepped work. On each of these occasions, half a thousand times this guy relapsed. Half a dozen time the Alcoholics Anonymous worked with him, reviewing carefully what happened. he agreed he was a real alcoholic which means Alcoholics Anonymous obviously qualified him is he a moderate drinker, is he hard drinker is he an alcoholic he agreed it was, which means they qualified him time after time Alcoholics Enormous worked with him with Fred as well Alcoholics Unanimous worked with Fred. Page 39. But Fred wouldn't believe himself as an alcoholic, much less accept a spiritual remedy, God on the 12 steps for his problem. Alcoholics almost told him what they knew about alcoholism. Physical allergy coupled with a mental obsession, piling on the hopelessness of this condition. He was interested and conceded that he had some of the symptoms but he was a long way from admitting that he could do nothing about it himself. We heard no more from Fred for a while, one day we were told that he was back in hospital. This time he was quite shaky, he soon indicated he was anxious to see us. Alcoholics Anonymous went to him. They continued to work with the guy even though he was relapsing. My experience has been is that I get to a spot in step 10 where the problem does not exist. I get into step 10 when the problem has been removed and I have this power. I need to give that away. My sobriety is dependent upon doing 12-step work. And I only speak for myself, I must do it. Because if I don't do it, I wake up exactly what Peter talked about in Bill with Bill's story. is that he was plagued by waves of self-pity and resentment. That's what happens with me when I don't think of others, when I work with others. Now there is a difference, I've learned, between sponsorship and working with others I sponsor around 8 or 9 men today but I also serve groups, have an intergroup commitment I have a commitment towards XA speakers in carrying this message I'm part of the audit team I'm so grateful to be part of that audit team for XA Speakers and I try and work with others in anything that's carrying the message because while I'm doing that I'm outside of myself we have in our local intergroup there was a telephone service that has been put up now don't quote me on the numbers but it's approximately, we have about 30 English speaking AA groups a week down where we are with a membership of about 200-220 people that telephone responders list was issued and there were 6-7 people out of a fellowship of 200 or 220 people who volunteered to do 12 step work See, I learned, and the book goes on to say that we never avoid these responsibilities. I get to a spot called recovered and get given great power. For me, 12-step work and working with others is not an option. I must do it. I need to live. I want to live, I have to carry this message. In our local world, I can't speak for here, but in our part of the world, we also, our group the primary purpose group we also have two detox meetings a month and somebody asked a question here a couple of days ago I believe how do you do outreach or how doyou do hospitals and institutions well I can tell you from my own experience that this is what you do telephone your local hospital either through or with a PI committee in your local intergroup if you can do it that way great if you cant it doesn't matter make contact explain who you are and what you're looking to do which is what we did and that we only want to be helpful in carrying the message to the patients that are still suffering in that unit we went along I had a meeting with a doctor with a copy of the book Alcoholics Anonymous we shared our experience that we have recovered from alcoholism AlcoholicsAnonymous does exist here in the meeting list here are the groups that are working and studying from the Big Book Alcoholics Anonymous, and here are the groups that are not. And then this doctor started to refer patients to us and they came into contact with us and we went to see them and we sat down and worked with them, 12-stepped them, qualified them, found out if they were a real alcoholic or whether they were hard drinker or moderate drinker and we were able to work with some of these patients within the unit and be the link between the facility and the AA group in the recovery community once they left. It's called Bridging the Gap. There's a pamphlet out there about that. I won't turn this into an HNI workshop, but I'm just telling you it's action. If you want to do it, do it. Just pick the phone up, see how you can be helpful, come out of the book, let them know you want them to be helpful. and the the whole reason of the way that this started for me was because i got through one step and i rang peter up and i was i was full of self-pity i've done all of these amends i'm doing all this but i feel like this told you it wouldn't work look at it out there i'm not going to get my money i want and he just said you better go work with another drug what he didn't say was go to a meeting and talk about it and share how you feel this man understood that my life depended on working with others and i went up to the hospital met a patient in the patient ground told her what i knew of alcoholism outlined this spiritual program of action to her and this lady was then connected with a woman's sponsor and she celebrated two years of sobriety about two weeks ago but i had to do it because otherwise i was going to stay within inside of myself and get uncomfortable and this is how we do it we have two deep detox meetings a month now where we go in and we do something called the foundation meeting that comes from the primary purpose group in dallas texas and while we're over there we've got to see that in action and peter wrote the format from the primary purpose group in Dallas Texas and we've now started to work the foundation beating these two facilities and some of those people come and some of them don't, some of them walk out and someof them stay but it keeps me sober we also offer sponsorship to those people and we're able to work with them at the Big Book Alcoholics Norton Fridge but that's how you do it speaking from experience I've got this thing through for box 459 I don't know whether you guys get this, but we got this through just a couple of days ago. It says our 12th step, and I'm talking as a fellowship as a whole, carrying the message, not my message, the message of Alcoholics Anonymous is the basic service that the AA Fellowship gives. This is our principle aim and the main reason for our existence. That's why we're here, guys. You recovered. You slipped through, you got well, I got well. Our principal service is to be there for the newcomer. That's our primary purpose. That's out primary purpose Tradition 5 says that we have one primary purpose to carry this message to the alcoholic that still suffers. Now I put that into practice in my personal life but also at a group level that's the main reason for our existence therefore AA is more than a set of principles it is a society of alcoholics in action we must carry the message else we ourselves can wither and those who haven't have been given the truth may die, also will die we get given great power as recovered members of Alcoholics Anonymous I get given a great power to do this it's here in the front of the picture it says 12 step it also says responsibility now I've been given the power by the grace of God and the program of Alcoholic Anonymous and I've recovered today I feel responsible perhaps you're not acquainted it with any drinkers who want to recover. It says you can easily find some by asking a few doctors, ministers, priests or hospitals. That implies action. That implies not sitting in a meeting and waiting for them to come through the door. What that implies is I've got to get off my butt, make some calls, take some time out and see if I can help somebody. And I tell you as a result of doing that I walk away time after time. It never fails, book says. Never fails. I walk away feeling at a million bucks really and I'm no longer worrying about how much am I going to get paid or is she going to stay or is he going to go or why does she look at me like that this morning or what he's doing or what this, I haven't done this I walk away from there feeling great empowered not powerless over people, places and things, powerful and that power comes from God as a result of the action in these 12 steps. Also tells us exactly what to do on a 12 step call. Top of page 90. When you discover a prospect for alcoholics and I must find out all you can about him. If he doesn't want to stop drinking, don't waste time trying to persuade him. You may spoil a later opportunity. This advice is given for the family also. If there is any indication he wants to start, have a good talk with him. Have a good talk with the person most interested in him, usually his wife. Get an idea of his behaviour, his problems, his backgrounds, the seriousness of his condition and his religious leanings. Sometimes it's wise to wait until he goes on a binge. The family may object to this but unless he's in dangerous physical condition, it's better to risk it. Don't deal with him when he's very drunk unless he is ugly and the family needs your help. This is it. Then let his family or a friend ask him if he wants to quit for good. Not one day at time, not just for today, for good. And if he would go to any extreme to do so. If he says yes, then his attention should be drawn to you as a person who has recovered. You should be described to him as part of the fellowship, as part their own recovery, try to help others and will be glad to talk to him if he cares to see you. If it doesn't want to see, you never force yourself upon him. It says down the bottom here. You might place this book, not living sober, not the pamphlets, because living sober is not going to give me clear cut instructions on how to have a spiritual experience. And if I'm a real alcoholic that's the only solution for me. This book, Alcoholics Anonymous, where you can see it in the interval, tells us what to do on the first visit. And here we go. First, engage in general conversation. After a while, turn the talk to some phase of drinking. Peter and I did a working with others workshop for our local intergroup last month. And it was basically on this chat and sharing our experience along with this and giving the exact instructions on what to do on a 12 step call. And I think they were like, yeah we're going to order a load of big books and take big books out. out and sort of heard a couple of weeks later there's lots of different pamphlets and things that they're going to give to them instead. Now, I'm a big book thumper. This has worked for me. I damn sure want it to work for the person that I'm working with. And why would I withhold the solution from a real alcoholic who's dying of untreated alcoholism? Why would I withhold this solution and give him some other information? That's a death sentence. I have a responsibility one chief primary purpose to carry the message in his puberty and entirety to the real alcoholic why would I give him something else that's going to confuse the hell out of him I would be responsible for his death if I do that I need to tell him the truth after a while turn the talk to some phase of drinking tell him enough about your drinking habits, symptoms and experiences to encourage him to speak of himself That's where we share our war stories Our drinking histories What it was like How much we drank What happened How many drink driving bans we got How many times we were imprisoned And the result of the consequences But it doesn't say in grave detail either It says some phase of drinking This is where we use our experiences Why? To encourage him to speak of himself If he wishes to talk Let him to do so and thus get a better idea of how you ought to proceed. If he is not communicative, give him a sketch of your drinking career up until the time you quit, but say nothing for the moment of how that was accomplished. We share our drinking histories for this reason, and it's coming up. When he sees you know all about the drinking game, and he sees we know all about the drinker, and we know about the drunking game because we've shared our war stories, we've shed our drinking escapades with him. Can you just describe yourself as an alcoholic? Tell him how baffled you were, how you finally learned that you were sick. Give him an account of the struggles you made to stop. Show him where you've lost the power of choice in order to make the decision to stop stick. Give him on account of your struggles you've made to start. Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree and they're even telling us where to refer to. more about alcoholism if he's an alcoholic he will understand you at once there's the identification we've spoken about war stories to get him to speak of himself we then share ours he's identified with us now we're on common ground now we can move forward yeah if you are satisfied that he's a real alcoholic not the moderate drinker not the hard drinker I don't really care what they do if you are satisfied he's a real alcoholic the guy that cannot not drink, the guy that cannot stay out of the crack house the guy who cannot stay away from the cocaine dealer the guy cannot stop needs to stop, wants to stop but cannot stop asking us to qualify begin to dwell on the hopeless feature of the malady showing from your own experience how the queer mental conditions surrounding the first drink prevents normal functioning of the willpower. Continue to speak of alcoholism as an illness, a fatal malady. Gives me great instructions on how to approach this. And doing it this way, I've got no room to harm the guy. I tell him exactly what happened to me, exactly the progressive, fatal, chronic nature of this illness called alcoholism. That way there's no rooms for opinions. There's no room for middle of the road solutions to come in and affect the guy and give him a confused message. I learned this from a friend of mine in Texas. We have one shot at these people. One shot. I don't know when the mental obsession in this guy is going to come back. I want to make sure that I am pulling in with a vision. I'm doing this stuff properly in order that I may be able to help save somebody's life. Is that what you said in box 459? Even though your protégé may have not entirely admitted his condition, he's become very curious to know how you got well. Yeah, I bet he has. Let him ask you that question. Tell him exactly what happened to you. Stress the spiritual feature freely. If the man be agnostic or atheist, make it empathetic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God. He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him. The main thing is that he'd be willing to believe in a power greater than himself and that he lived by spiritual principles. The 12 steps. And I do this today. and it's effective because it's a message of depth and weight frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices and it is the instructions here to speak to him about God and we hear it all the time well don't mention God on the first visit you're going to scare him away fine, if that's what we need to do fine but alcoholism will kick him back in if he's lucky the main thing is that he'd be willing to believe in a power greater than himself I've had 12-step calls where people say I'm desperate, I'm dying you know, I don't know what to do I can't stop drinking I go through and deal with them in this book and I qualify them speak to them about my understanding of this power called God oh, no way sorry can't help it maybe they need to go back more down the crack house, smoke some more crack cocaine or keep drinking again and maybe then they'll be slightly willing to believe that there's something out there. But I can't waste my time with people who do not want this solution but the guy the real alcoholic that does and is willing to do it and is ready to go to any means to get it, I give him night and day to work this work because I know it works Page 94, we're still on the first visit which is outline the program of action explain how you made a self-appraisal step 4 how you straightened out your past steps 8 and 9 and why you are now endeavouring to be helpful to him, step 12 see on that first visit on the 12 step call once the guy has asked me what did I do to get well I'm now speaking to him about God and the 12 steps on the first visit before he's in a meeting before he had a chance to read any other conference approved literature before he gets his bag full of share magazines box 459s and gets confused I'm not looking at any of that stuff, I'm just saying for the newcomer we need to keep it simple before any of this happens we speak with him about God in the 12 steps it's important for him to realise that your attempt to pass this ultimate plays a vital part in your own recovery make it plain that he's under no obligation to you that you only hope that he will try to help others we're already talking to the guy about God the 12 steps and him doing 12 step work on the first visit now I sit in AA meetings where I'm from and I hear you're not sober enough to work with anyone until you've been sober 2 years sorry, not what my big book says thank God Peter didn't say that to me when I came back in fifth time round thank God I would not be here today suggest how important it is that he placed the welfare of other people ahead of his own more 12 step work oh God maybe you've disturbed him about but it also says here if your talk has been sane, quiet and full of human understanding please forgive me If my talk hasn't been saying quite full of human understanding, I do have a tendency to get passionate about this stuff. But maybe you've disturbed him about the question of alcoholism. He says this is all to the good. The more hopeless he feels, the better. He goes on to say your candidate may give reasons why he'd not follow all of the programme. No kidding! He may rebel at the thought of a drastic house cleaning. Step four, which requires discussion with other people. Step five. Don't contradict it. Tell him you want to do it as he does, but you doubt whether you've made much progress had you not taken action. On your first visit, tell him about the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. If he is interested, lend him your copy of this book. And this is where it's important that I make the clear distinction between the program of Alcoholics Anonymous and the fellowship of Alcoholic Anonymous. You see, my book says that no human power can relieve my alcoholism. And the fellowship about Alcoholics Aanonymous is human power. Now, I'm not saying the fellowship's not important, but the fellowship on its own won't keep me sober. I've experienced it five one-year trips in five years just relying on fellowship and service. lots of meetings and I continually react and my life got worse as a result of it the fellowship of alcoholics is where you meet in order that the newcomer may find this solution and in the early days what they had was step studies and speaker meetings and all of these people in those early days in those first meetings have recovered had a spiritual experience and were carrying this message to the newcomers further on it talks about electric environments when in meetings newcomer walks in he's getting pulled with a vision offered sponsorship immediately, taken to this world rapidly and turned around and went on working with someone else. I explain the fellowship of alcoholics. And also, I'm truthful enough to let them know what groups are living this deal and what groups aren't. And I also let the person know that in some meetings he may not hear this message. Why would I deny another alcoholic the truth? It wasn't denied for me. I make it a responsibility for me to do that. and then the book, give him a copy of this book why? because the book is the program of alcoholics among us there's two things going on there's the program and then there's the fellowship if he doesn't want to talk about himself don't worry I'll give him another chance to think it over if he's sincerely interested and wants to see you again ask him to read this book in the interval after doing that he must decide for himself whether he wants to go on he should not be pushed or prodded by you, his wife and his friends and here it is if he is to find God the desire must come from within and it works doing it that way I've seen it and I've also experienced it without knowledge of being properly armed with the fact of trying to pull newcomers into meetings just come to the meeting sure come tothe meeting but if the meeting isn't carrying the message about the spiritual experience in the program, the guy's not going to hear how to get well. That's why traditional five is so important in our environment. Even if we take the guy to a meeting, let's get the guy into a meeting where he's going to learn and he's gonna hear how it gets over. Let's take him to a meet, let's take to a me when he's been hearing about the absolute life changing deep and effective spiritual experience as a result of working the 12 steps. Let's taking to a medium with this guys that can sponsor immediately. I would also add, I've got on a 12 step call, I also qualify my mind to find out if I'm dealing with a real alcoholic or if I am dealing with the real drug addict. Because if the guy is a drug addict, I do not take him to a meeting of alcoholics anonymous. We have a thing called the singleness of purpose, I respect it. I'm a membership of both fellowships, Coca-Cola and Alcoholics Anonymous. If he's a real drug addict, can't control it once he starts, can stay stopped, we get him connected to the CA guys where we're from and into the CA meetings. If he is an alcoholic, we'll get them connected to a group that are doing the deal. It says you must be crystal-coded, I don't chase them, I let them read the first 164 pages of the book, decide for themselves whether they want to go through with the program of action. If I get the call and say yeah, okay let's go. It also says here, a couple of things that I've highlighted is we find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot and will not work with you. If you leave such a person alone he may soon become convinced that he cannot recover by himself. We were working with someone a couple months ago and this individual had been in and out for a while. It was amazing. We were actually in the States at the time, last year in New York, attending a conference. And where we're from, primary purpose group is kind of, whoa, that book, those people, don't go there. But the interesting thing is, is that the mainstream fellowship, once they get a real alcoholic on their hands, they're on the phone to us because they don't know what to do. they don't know what to do with them, Alcoholics Anonymous where I'm from does not know whatto do with the real alcoholic but all of a sudden our group becomes very popular when they don'tknow whatto-do work that one out we worked with this woman for a time and made a good beginning and then she went away and she came back and she went way and tried to work with her and there was some other complications And I was called up a couple of months ago by a friend of her, I went along with another woman who was doing the deal as well and we went round and saw her and there was a friend of the family there. And my first question to her was, are you done for good and for all? I mean she was a mess, she looked up at me, the apartment was just dark, it was messy, it was horrible. horrible, I mean the home was drunk and she looked up at me as she went and shrugged her shoulders. And I said, bye, nothing to do. And then the friend of the family said, that's a bit rigid, why did you do that? And I took her to this page in the book, I said it's a waste of time to keep chasing her if she cannot or will not work with him. If we leave and she may become convinced that she cannot recover by herself. Well, I think that's very tough. Sorry. That's what my people tell me today. Never failed me yet. Never. But you see, what happens is, you know, someone who's not properly armed with the facts will meet her and they'll waste time driving her from here to there because she'll manipulate them into their own everywhere and they wonder why it's not working. These guys have dedicated a whole chapter to working with others. A whole chapter so that we don't make the same mistakes that they may have done. So that we're clear on how we do this stuff. Second visit, he's read this volume and says he's prepared to go through with the 12 steps of the program of recovery. Second visit. Still no AA meeting yet. Second visit And he's prepared to go through with the 12 steps of the programme. Great, let's go. Having had the experience yourself, you can give him much practical advice. See, I can't do this effectively if I haven't done it myself. We have clear-cut instructions on how the 12-step a real alcoholic yet. I need to have had the experience myself before I go and do it. If I start 12-stepping a real alcoholic and I haven't had the experience myself, the message that I carry to him is he going to have depth and weight? Is he gonna have confidence in my ability to show him the solution? Am I going to harm him with opinions that I picked up along the way in the middle of the road 8am? Probably. One shot at these people. It says let him know you're available if he wishes to make a decision, step 3, until he's gone, step 4 and 5. But do not insist upon it if he prefers to consult someone else. This kind of goes into a sponsorship deal from here because the guy read the book, prepared to go through the steps. Some instructions with homeless people, both people and I were working with a homeless guy a couple of years ago now. And he was a street drunk, had picked up wonderful techniques in getting what he wanted out of people and convincing people that he must have a roof over his head and he can't get sober until he has this. And I'll be honest with you, subsequently at the time, I hadn't had as much experience as I have up until today. So I made some mistakes and I found myself paying for him to stay in a hotel room, emptying out my wardrobe with lots of clothes and trainers that I didn't use anymore and giving them to him. And he was kind of going along with us. He was turning up at meetings and he was praying and trying to do some of the work. But I kind of got it the wrong way around. But afterwards, Peter pointed out that maybe I should read 96 and he says, you know, he may be broken homeless. if he is you might try to help him about getting a job or give him a little financial assistance but be sure to use your discretion be sure that he will be welcomed by your family, that he's not trying to oppose upon you for money, connections or shelter permit that and you're only harming it would be making it impossible for him to be insincere and he goes on to talk about what I call life in the trench never avoid these responsibilities but be sure you are doing the right thing if you assume them helping others is the foundation stone of your recovery kindly acting once in a while isn't enough you have to be good to an American every day now these are what I call 12 step work promises or life in the trench it says it may mean the loss of many nights sleep great interference with your pleasures 12 step calls while on a week's holiday had to do it see my conscience won't let me turn my back and not do it if I can do it, I can't turn my Back on it and I did it God doesn't send real alcoholics at my doorstep at the most convenient times but I have one primary purpose to do that maybe sharing your money in your home introductions to your business that's daily for me currently counselling frantic wives and relatives in your own trips to the police courts, sanitariums hospitals, jails and asylums here it is, your telephone may jangle at any time of the day or night your wife may sometimes say she's neglected a drunk may smash the furniture in your home or burn a mattress you may have to fight with him if he's violent sometimes you'll have to call a doctor or administer sedatives under his direction another time you may need to send for the police or ambulance occasionally you will have to be in such conditions they're not getting here And occasionally, some of them more regularly, but occasionally I have to meet these conditions. But 12-step work is exciting guys! See you laugh, but those of you who haven't done it don't know! It's exciting stuff! You start doing this stuff in your life And it will change your life at a level you cannot believe, you cannot imagine. It is absolutely life-changing doing this stuff. Absolutely life-changing. It says on page 98, and I'll say a couple of things here and then I'll hand it over to Peter on this. He says, it's not the matter of giving that's in question, but when and how to give. That often makes the difference between failure and success. here we go the minute we put our work on a service plane the alcoholic commences to rely upon our assistance rather than God remember the ABC's no human power can relieve my alcoholism God could and would if he were sore he clamours for this or that claiming he cannot master alcohol until his material needs are cared for nonsense says further down we simply do not stop drinking so long as we place dependence upon other people ahead of dependence on God I want one primary purpose even with sponsorship on this guy, I'm working with this guy my job based on him reading this and based on me qualifying him and based upon him wanting to do this deal is to get him through these 12 steps as quickly as he can so that he starts relying on this power rather than human power. I can't fix all of these problems. He's arrogant and selfish to the core if I think I can. I have one primary purpose, get this guy through this work to have a deep and effective spiritual experience so we can recover, so that he can then start depending on God. I cannot take on all the problems of my prospects or everybody that i work with i cannot and i'll also tell you that sponsorship is not tiring if it's done correctly it gets tiring after you've been up until 4 a.m 3 a.м three nights in a row listening to fifth steps that's tiring i cannot take on all the job my only job as a sponsor is to get him connected to god through working the 12 steps teach him about the fellowship teach him about the traditions. Sure, I'm available if he wants to talk and visit and do some step 10 stuff of a night or a morning. Absolutely. Not that callous. But if I start taking on all these problems and giving him my opinion on what I think he should do in that relationship or listening to him, hey, look at the other day, someone's got an issue with this. Resentment is probably a good word for issue. It's the truth. The truth. You know, so and so suffering from this mind talk. I told them to go and light some candles and have a bath. Stop that! I don't understand that. You just burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that you trust in God and clean house. Trust in God, steps 1 through 3, clean house steps four through nine and go work with others remind the prospect that his recovery is not dependent upon people it is dependent upon his relationship with god back to the abcs again also says here you know this is what i'm learning at the moment is both you and the new man must walk day by day in the path of spiritual progress a good teacher and peter both said to me that once you wake somebody up you walk with them for a while once you wake a baby up you don't just leave it you attend to it you walk with it for a while if somebody's had a spiritual experience as a result of these steps I need to walk with them for a while guide them a little bit when we look back we realise that the things which came to us when we put ourselves in God's hands were better than anything that we could have planned I'll share this with you page 101 in our belief any scheme of combating alcoholism which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed to failure if the alcoholic tries to shield himself he may succeed for a time but he usually winds up with a bigger explosion than ever we have tried these methods these methods to do the impossible have always failed and I speak with you experience from this and it will be the last time I mention this now but it's a consideration not a judgement or an observation but isn't 90 meetings in 90 days some kind of shield my book says is that we need to get this person connected to God quickly through working the 12 steps that's going to give him a deep and effective spiritual experience my experience with that is that 90 meetings and 90 days did shield me but the internal condition called the spiritual malady was eating me alive and i was constantly thinking about drinking or getting drink inside of those 90 days my life didn't get better as a result of doing that i went to treatment i was in treatment seven months that was a shield i was locked up for the first eight weeks wasn't even allowed out couldn't even go buy sweets or diet coke at the shop. I was given £10 a week to live on, couldn't even move. Seven months in that facility learning a lot of information about recovery and about addiction and about triggers enabling dysfunctional families. Forty days out of that facility I was drunk chill these attempts to do the impossible will always fail this is why this works guys this is what makes me so passionate about this this is where I've been spending so long so many years struggling with this listening to all of these middle of the road solutions for a guy like me reaching the point of desperation of becoming humble enough being graced with some humility to finally do what somebody suggested me to do straight out of this book take certain action that I didn't want to take but just do it that I've recovered and that's why I put myself on the firing line and I try and carry this message wherever I can sponsorship is a different deal maybe Pete can kind of go into that but I'll just touch on it gently around sponsorship, working with others it really is anything that can carry this message you know we've got public information committees, we've go H&I committees, literature commitments treasury commitments, GSR commitments, welcomer commitments, secretary commitments literature and chip commitments anything I don't hold with this information that says you can't work with anyone until you've been sober two years. My experience is that the guys that get involved from day one stay. If not, they'll sit on the edge of this, they won't have a clue what this is about and they'll just drift away and drink or die. And it's exciting. Doing this is exciting. I have a life better than I've ever, ever had and it keeps getting better on a daily basis. I'm armed with the facts it's called the big book I'm on with my own personal experience all I need to do is relay this with my experience to the new guy after he's been qualified and I may have helped save somebody's life further on in this as well and I promise I'll stop on this in the family afterward it said cessation of drinking is but the first step away from a highly strained abnormal condition cling to the thought, page 124 that in God's hands the dark past is the greatest possession you have, the key to life and happiness for others with it you can avert death and misery I think somewhere in the chapter to wives somewhere in the character to wives I've got it underlined somewhere yeah there it is, page 118 again this is 12 step work encapsulated we do not like the thought that the content of a book or the work of another alcoholic has accomplished here it is in a few weeks that which we have struggled for years at such moments we forgot that alcoholism is an illness over which we could not possibly have had any power I'll read it one more time we do not believe and we do not like the thought that the content of a book or the work of another alcoholic has accomplished in a few weeks yet I hear constantly where I'm from take your time to work the steps don't worry about the steps the steps will get you I know there's some laughter in that but the sad thing is is that the people that generally hear that information if they're a real alcoholic they don't generally stick around they either end up in a hospital after a suicide attempt or drunk or dead it's arrogant of me to put my own spin on this but the ramifications are that I could kill somebody with that information we've been given the primary purpose we've been given the set of instructions if we've had the experience ourselves we're ready to go work with others in the first few days a couple of guys I'm working with at the moment both of them have worked for Stemps in about 8 or 9 days they're out making amends and they're up at the hospital speaking with other alcoholics now I'm not saying that to boast I'm just saying that because it's been my experience we need to work with others guys you know if you haven't had the experience find yourself a sponsor work the steps rapidly take this message back into your own meetings and start doing the deal and you'll see this change you'll se yourself change and you will see other people change and if you're in this room and you're telling people to take their time to work the step I'm asking you to please stop thanks my name's Peter and I'm a recovered alcoholic Dr Bob got sober with Bill Bill was about to drink and he knew that he would he'd kind of feel better if he weren't under the drunk and he was in the lobby of this hotel and there was a list of churches and stuff, and he knew that if he found a pastor or a priest or something, that they would know someone with alcohol it's part of what we do I go talk to priests I don't talk about God much but I go and talk to priests when I'm feeling suicidal and he saw this one guy it was a priest called Walter Tunks and Tunks were owned with drunks and so he found him this is a story of seconds and inches there are no coincidences here why did he phone that guy that guy knew someone that knew someone that was a drunk that had only just admitted he was a drink and they'd been praying for him his name was Dr. Bob Bill went to see Dr.Bob and he told Dr.Bob how he drank and Dr. bob said wow I drink this like no one's ever told me that before you see when I'm talking to somebody and I can get you either laughing or nodding I gotcha I got cha because you're thinking the same way as I'm thinking and I'm thinkin' the same ways you're thinkin if I'm a duck and you're a duck you're thikin' like a duck you're also a duck too so I'm thikn' like an alcoholic I can describe what's goin' inside me I can sit down with someone and describe to them exactly how they're feelin' right now and they go how do they know that how was it when I sat down and Billy was telling me his story how did I think that he was telling my story, how did i think someone had told him about me because he knew see our dark past is the most powerful thing we've got on a 12 step call sometimes we go into meetings a newcomer comes into a meeting and these folks, we sit down and we try to scare him into staying and he goes around the room and everybody tells their worst drunk story and it gets into now top this and so by the time it's got back to the end of the room he's not even, I mean there's all sorts of stuff going on there's murders and whatever prison sentences, this guy I mean it might not even be a guy it might be a business woman a functioning drunk that walks into I was a functioning alcoholic for most of my alcoholism, walks into a meeting and there's some guys going there about prisons and about abuse and all this kind of stuff she doesn't identify at all if somebody started to talk about the solution in that meeting then it would fill her with a vision of hope, and that's what we need to do in our meetings, we take our dark past to a 12 step call this first bit of what's happening they spend more time on chapter 12 than any other step there's a whole chapter working with us it talks about two visits the first visit, what do you do on the first visit and then what do you do in the second visit now on the 1st visit I think this is just me that you can go do a 12 step call if you're connected with a good group of Alcoholics Anonymous who are doing the deal and you've not finished the steps yet you can't sponsor anybody though but you can go I was told when I first came to AlcoholicsAnonymous don't give away anything you haven't got but you've got a 12 step call and even if you know nothing and you're on the first step you can say to that person I don't know what's happening here but there's some guys downtown who do come with me to a meeting and let's talk to them and find out what we do. So you can do a 12-step call. I was taken on 12-stepped calls two or three days after I was in the room. We had a telephone in the row. We met in a little convent and it was a children's, it was like a kindergarten room and there was little chairs, just like good for us, little kids' chairs. We were learning, we were sitting in little kids', and there were little rows of pegs all around the room about waist high for me and we sat in these rooms and the nuns bless her put a phone in the corner of this room in their kindergarten school room for us in the evenings and if that phone rang and our sponsor answered the phone we knew we were going on a top circle we knew we were out there so the group I walked into was very very active then something happened along the line somewhere down the line in the last 20 some odd years is that we stopped going on a 12 step course people started to come into meetings dried out and treatmentised saying that they'd done the first 5 steps and I was one of the people that believed them that they had done the 1st 5 steps and they were talking slightly differently from the guys that were speaking to me in the rooms they were speaking kind of different and it sounded hip slick and cool because it was kind of like psychological kind of stuff. And it sounded like they had an awful lot of knowledge about alcoholism that I didn't have. All I knew was I drunk, I blacked out, I got sick, I was going insane, these steps helped me. That's what I knew. But these guys had all sorts of stuff now. And it sounds hip-slickly cool and I believed them. And a lot of others, I believe a lot us believed them and we got less and less wet drunks in the rooms. In this little school room, there was an old settee at the back that a couple of members had actually asked the nuns if we could put it in there. And this old setee was an old overstuffed thing with patches on it and stuff. And that's where the drunks used to sit. You go to sleep at meetings. And they used to walk in with a plastic bag clinking. We'd say, don't bring that in here. This is a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. Leave that outside. And they'd leave their bottles outside and they slowly slipped to the floor while we were having our meeting occasionally one would have a fit in the meeting we saw people having alcoholic fits in meetings I get to meetings, for many years I went to meetings and I never saw anybody like that, everybody was clean and slick and saying that they'd done the steps and stuff and then somewhere down the line I read some of the instructions to do the steps in these treatment centers now I'm not knocking treatment centers believe me they're great places to detox I don't want to detox somebody on my couch it's dangerous you see one of the problems with alcoholism is that 3% of us sorry 15% of us that dry out that detox have some kind of fit and 15% of those people that have a fit die this is dangerous detoxing from alcohol is dangerous treatment centres fine place great place it says in here even on the West End that if you're if he is very ill he needs hospital treatment take your prospect to a hospital if he needs I had a guy that came to me one time and I'm sitting there talking to him and I was saying and he was just finished just started so I can't do this no more and I asked him tell me honestly how much you drink I need to know how much you drink and he said well at the moment I'm just drinking beer I'm drinking a lot of beer but I'm juste drinking beer he looked to me like he was a spirit drinker, he looked at me like hewas drinking a lotta spirits he was shaky he was really shaky, he was sweating and he was shaking, and I said to him ok fine this is what you gotta do, you gotta start asking for power, get yourself to a meeting tomorrow, come see me before the meeting, we'll start to do this stuff I was waiting for him by the railway station and I got a very, very strange phone call very odd phone call then I heard the pump you and I walked across the street with his badson across the pavement now if he'd have told me I'm drinking a bottle and a half of spirits a day I'd have said to him you need hospitalisation you stop, you're going to have a problem sometime between 48 hours and 72 hours after stopping drinking you get a fit some of us, not all of us but you need to be under some kind of supervision there's instructions in the book on how to do it many of us keep liquor in our homes we often need it to carry green recruits through severe hangovers they used to taper them off at home I don't want to have to do that today I'm not qualified there are people who are qualified but they come out of these places with things like relapse prevention plans and trigger lists now on page 101 of this book assuming we're spiritually fit we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do people have said that we must not go where liquor is served we must not have it in our homes we must shun friends who drink we must avoid moving pictures show drinking scenes we must not go into bars our friends must hide their bottles if we go into their houses we mustn't think or even be reminded of alcohol at all our experience shows it's not the same my experience is absolutely that see because if I've got step 10 promises it doesn't mean anything it might as well be battery acid is what I'm saying it's fine inside you but it doesn't go inside me and I'm cool with that it's the same with drugs and other stuff except I don't want to be hanging around with people who are acting out because I find that disturbing the role of a sponsor I've got a thing here I'm going to leave behind you behind you the role it talks about sponsor and it talks about the job of a supporter and my job as a sponsor on the second visit is that I've had a spiritual experience what is the message of Alcoholics Anonymous the message about AlcoholicsAnonymous is contained in the twelfth step it says the message About AlcoholicsAnenomous is having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps that's the message Of Alcoholics Anenomious it's the only one we got just like I said the other day if you're hiding behind us the fact that the 12 steps are only a suggestion it's the only suggestion we got this guy that can't meet these conditions that canít go anywhere it says here has an alcoholic that cannot meet them, still has an alcoholic mind untreated alcoholic I canít do anything I can't go anywhere I was shut down when I stopped drinking as I was when I was drinking I never left my house when I Was drinking except to go down and buy another bottle if I can't go out there and mix it with life and go anywhere because I take my power with me then I'm just as shut down as I was before it means I have no life but it says somewhere in this book that we absolutely insist on enjoying life we insist on it I do, I have a ball now, I met someone a few years ago and I was sitting in the back of a meeting him with his back to the wall, with his face contorting in all sorts of different directions sitting on his hands shaking and not knowing what to do and I looked at him and I thought you are disturbing suicidal where do you get from that? you get there he was disturbing when I first met him he was disturbing, he may be disturbing now in Alcoholics Anonymous I hope so I hope I'm disturbing I hope because it says in here we may have disturbed you on the question of alcoholism I hope we have it's a killer disease it can only be recovered from by a spiritual awakening of some kind, either a spiritual experience or a spiritual awareness. That's the only message we've got. My job as a sponsor is to show the sponsee and walk the sponcee through backed up by my experience these twelve steps as they're laid out in here. I don't use the twelve and twelve because there is no directions on how to work the steps in the twelve I've been to many, many state meetings where it goes to 12 and 12 but I get confused I get confused, they are essays this is where the directions are in this book my job as a sponsor is to get the sponsor connected through his own power as fast as possible and then they go I'm there available because what happens with a line of sponsorship a line of sponsorship is that my sponsor has an awful lot more experience than I have his sponsor has and awful lot more experience than he has and my sponsors could come to me and say I've got a problem with a new guy and it's great somewhere down the line it changes somewhere down the line it changes I have a problem to I have a problem with a new guy when I hear that I go good because now because now I'm not going to be in this guy's shit anymore he's got his power he's taking that power to someone else so now we can start now we're going down the road now it's beginning to work now if I don't know the answer I say I don' t know because I've got a sponsor I get on the phone, I get an email I get in touch with my sponsor and say hey we've got this problem because it's my problem because he's my sponsor see we've go this problem what's your experience on this if he doesn't know he's going to tell me he's got to go back down the line and if not there's also I know that we can sit together as a group and go hey we've got this problem it's sort of what we did with this guy up the street he tried all of us we all sat together and said well this is happening, that's happening, that's happened, we're being used guys he's not serious he's just interested in getting staff cool so we've used our experience we've created our experience here's the thing on the front of my book this is our symbol if your book hasn't got this something's happened here Alcoholics Anonymous has lost this or let it go apparently what happened was this is their symbol it's circling the triangle and apparently somewhere down the line it was decided not to defend it other people started using it there's some copyright stuff going on actually AlcoholicsAnonymous General Service Conference in England it's actually copyrighted now my book has got it in the beginning there now if yours hasn't got it in that beginning there and you haven't got the circle and triangle in your big book draw it in there because this is very important this triangle is made up of three sides in a circle the circle is a very very ancient symbol of either the universe the body the whole I take it as being the body and within this body there's three sides to this triangle and the base of our triangle is recovery I can't do anything without recovery how do I get recovery? I get discovery by working the 12 steps of alcoholics with the guide of a sponsor this book was designed to be worked by yourself this was sent out from New York in the early days and actually it's designed to be able to sit down and actually work through this book and it can be done however I think language has changed I think values have changed a little bit and I think experience has come on a little better and so now I like to do this with a guide but it is possible to do it with a book but the other two sides of the triangle I've actually got it written down there on mine. Recovery, unity is the other side. Now unity is the fellowship. Now remember that I read out yesterday, I said this is a solution on which we can absolutely agree. I can take this solution in some meetings of our colleagues and they don't agree with this solution. They tell me in some meeting, don't bring that book in here. We don't want to hear about the big book. unity unity of the method unity of the fellowship we've been accused of splitting AA six of us and also that list of telephone, 12 step responders, there was maybe half a dozen on there, at least four or five were from our group because that's what we do because we're excited about it we get fired up about this because we get, it's exciting it is exciting you can get into all sorts of strange places recovery unity and service now that triangle within a circle if you draw a triangle within a circle it's generally an equilateral triangle is my program or my life in AA three sided? Is it equal? Am I flatlining on recovery? Am I so tied up in these steps that I don't do anything else except inventory after inventory after inventory after infantry it sounds like that's what we do it's not like that it's not like that, it's a daily discipline it just takes me 45 minutes in the morning, it takes me a couple of minutes during the day it takes be about 10 minutes at night so maybe I spend an hour with God every day, the rest of the time I get on with my life I generally spend maybe half an hour, three quarters of an hour on the telephone every day with sponsors and people that I talk to but that's one of those deals that's part of what I do maybe I go out and I do hospital sometime whatever how many meetings do I do I have fellowship twice a week go to a meeting twice a year, I talk with my fellows at other times and service I do service within the meetings I'm a treasurer of a meeting I'm what's the name a literature rep for another meeting I do whatever I can around the meetings so I've got to balance my recovery and put all this thing together and try and get that triangle into equilateral it's not always like that sometimes the server side is a bit big and the triangle goes really lopsided maybe the baseline moves up a little bit gets longer so it's no always, it's going to be changing and that's the dynamic of it and that' s the wonderful thing about this way of life it's dynamic and there's something going on all the time and it says somewhere in here I'm not going to find it It says that we can go into the most sordid places on this 12-step work. Some of you know where it is. There it is, it says your job is to be in a place where you can be of maximum usefulness and helpfulness to others. Oh, there's another job, I've got another job now, so I get into the middle of life, I'm going to meet alcoholics if I'm in the middle of life. If I'm just sitting in meetings with alcoholics and none of us are sitting at home doing inventories, that's not going to be no good I've got to put myself right into the middle my job now is to be at the place where you may be a maximum useless diarist now God's shown me that that's actually working and that's getting out and doing some stuff and what's really interesting is that this year I'm working outside a lot it's one of those things it says so never hesitate to go anywhere if you can be helpful you should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such an area sometimes those sordids spots and I actually have fear sometimes of going into meetings about those numbers because sometimes they're sordidos spots because I get shot at I had an instance about two years ago where half the meeting when I was starting to share about three minutes into my share half the meetings got up and walked out fellowship huh? I got away from that meeting I went away from that meeting and I drove home crying this was about four years ago and I got on the phone to my sponsor and I said I don't think I'm doing this right he said yes you are you're doing this right so you've got to keep on doing it why don't you start a meeting why don'T you take your find some people that want to do this stuff and start a meeting of your own and we started in my apartment that's how we started we started to study the big book, some other folks came along, 12 steps and folks, we got some other folk together we became a group, we call ourselves a group we have two meetings, we have a group we are the primary purpose group what we do is carry this message we're willing to go into most sordid spots on earth we go into a secure psychiatric unit I don't know how we got in there, it's French speaking we take this message in French we're English for good and sake I speak French like a Spanish that's the one but I got a guy in London the other day identifying with me even with my bad French because I'm using the book in French I'm using the words in the book in French I'm going to learn French through the book it's a good way to learn French it says keep on the firing line of life I've got to duck and I sometimes have to duck bullets and with these motives God will keep you unharmed that's a promise God will Keep me Unharmed if I can go to the most sort of spot I live God will KEEP ME UNHARMED on this errand you know you've been extremely patient and I'm going to finish I'm just going to be extremely patient you've been an experienced patient with us and it's really great Dr. Bob, he spent he spent the last 10 years of his life working with alcoholics a conservative estimate is 5,000 alcoholics he worked with he said I spend a great deal of my time passing on what I've learned to others who want and need it badly I do for four reasons sensitivity, it is a pleasure you bet it is because in doing so I'm paying a debt to the man who took time to pass it on to me. Yeah, I'm playing my debt to Billy. Billy isn't alive anymore but I am because of Billy. Because Billy took the time to come and see me. And because every time I do I take out a little bit more insurance for myself against the possible slip. So it's okay, so that's the selfish bit if you like. Because somebody once said to me that every 12-step call you ever make is successful if you don't make it. I let go of what... I carry the message and say, OK, here it is. I lay the spiritual tools at their feet. If they don't want it, I don't waste my time. It's a waste of energy. If I come away from a 12-stepper called energised, I've done a good job. If I came away from 12-steps called drained, then I've been locked in there somewhere and you see people suffering from active alcoholism drunk or sober for me seem to be like odd word but spiritual vampires they'll suck me dry and I will spend a great deal of energy trying to convince them that they should do this and I come away absolutely like this right it's not up to me, it's up to God it's down to them to make the decision it says, and Dr Bob goes on Dr Bob doesn't mince his words here Dr Bob was a very straight talking doctor I'd love to have met him because he apparently used a lot of slang but on page 181 it says if you think you are an atheist or an agnostic a sceptic and he calls this, if you have any other form of intellectual pride so he's saying atheism, agnosticism and skeptic is a form of intellectual bride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book I feel sorry for you if you still think you are strong enough to beat the game alone that's your affair have a nice life, go party get done But if you really and truly want to quit drinking liquor for good and all, good and all, not day at a time, good and all, and sincerely feel that you must have some help. Okay? So you tried it, you can't do it. Can't do on your own power. You sincerely need some help We know we have the answer for you. We know. He says it never fails. Chapter 5 says rarely have we seen a person fail Dr. Bob, who's had more experience at this time than anybody else working with drugs says it never fails on one condition if you go about it with one half only half the zeal you'd been in a habit of shying when you were getting another drink not all of it just half of it yeah half the energy and it says your heavenly father never let you down the last chapter of this book Vision for You filled me with a vision the first three pages of it filled me With a Vision my second mission it described what it's like to be a drunk it described what it was like to get sober and I said yeah I want some of this and this is the bit that everybody did everybody get told of in Middle Road Solution contemporary IA. Our book is meant to be suggested only. Somebody once said to me it's suggested like a parachute when you're jumping out of an aeroplane. We suggest you pull the ripcord. But you can delay pulling the ripcorder as long as you like when you get out of the plane. It's called skydiving. Yeah? Now, when I pull the ribcord, I start working the steps. And I come down real gentle. if I come out of the plane and I'm skydiving, I'm plummeting and there's somewhere between, it's not the first 7 or 8 thousand feet that's going to matter it's the last 6 feet that's gonna kill me when my feet touch the deck that's what's gonna tell me and I can choose to pull that ripcord all the way down and I could have this terrifying fall without drinking, if you like, in AA. But I can choose to pull a ripcord anywhere down that line. If I choose to put the ripcords straight away out of the plane as soon as I get in and work these steps, as soon As I get to get in, I'm going to have a great ride because I'm gonna get to see a lot of stuff along the way down because from that sort of high perspective, you can see it all the way. And I'm gong to have an experience. If I'm falling like this and I'm not pulling no ripcorder, it's going to be full of fear and it's gonna be a nasty experience and it's going to be a horrible end. It's going to get me in the end. We realise we know only a little. They did, they only knew a little, five years sober the longest person sober in our times at this time. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. Ask him in your morning meditation what you would do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something you don't have get it get it see to it that your relationship with him is right how do you do that? work the steps and great events will come to pass for you and countless others this is the great fact with us or for us abandon yourself to God as you understand God admit your faults to him and to your fellows they believed in multiple fifth steps in those days I've done a multiple fifth step, cool I want everybody to know about what's going on I want to be transparent transparent I want To live my life like I don't care about if anything I do is published I say things like will I take God with me right now here if it's no I still go there sometimes but it's a warning for me that I shouldn't hang out in those places if I can't take my power with me I shouldn't hang out there clear the way to wreckage of your past 9 give freely what you have and join us 12 we shall be with you in the fellowship of the spirit oh there's two fellowships in Alcoholics Anonymous there's the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous and there's a fellowship of the Spirit in Alcoholic Anonymous the fellowship of the Spirits in Alcoholical Anonymous I know now to be the people who are doing this work I'm very privileged to walk with some of these people giants in our lives giants and we will surely meet some of us as you trudge the road about your destiny you know I can't keep a dry eye on screen I can not read the last one but it says may God bless you and keep you until then meet with us on the throne of happy destiny I've done that I've met with people on the road to happy destiny it's an amazing thing the reason why I don't waste my time is because I'm getting on now I've got maybe 20 years that's what we get if I waste my time now I might not get somebody further down the line I want I want to pass this on to as many people as I can before I go because it was freely given to me and I do it for free and for fun for fun and for fruit it's a great life I'm very grateful for this weekend thank you very very much thanks Peter thank you thank you thank you thank you There are a lot of hard drinkers in Alcoholics Anonymous and a lot moderate drinkers in Alcoholic Anonymous that do not have to have a deep and effective spiritual experience in order to recover, and who do not need to work the 12 steps and to work with others in order to recover. And under the third tradition, they're welcome if they've got the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. I want to say these two things and then I'll close. If your sponsor is telling you anything different to what this programme tells you to do, I would certainly hold it suspect. If you are a real alcoholic and you're looking for solution find us we are out there about two three weeks ago it was a woman in a meeting where we were another woman had qualified her she was not she didn't identify with the physical allergy she didn t identify with your mental obsession but she was turning up to close meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous Um, this woman hadn't worked any of the steps and I knew she wasn't a real alcoholic. And I made it my business to go to her at the end of the meeting and suggest that she go to open meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous. Why? is because that woman unintentionally will pass across bad information to a real woman alcoholic. And I said to her that she is not welcome in a closed meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous because she isn't alcoholic. And she agreed with me. She didn't like it, but she agreed with me. And I don't really care because I have a responsibility and one primary purpose to carry this message and to make sure that everyone, the real alcoholic in these rooms where I'm from gets to hear this message. If your sponsor is telling you anything different than what this book says or what these 12 steps say and you are a real alcoholic I would search out a real alcoholic and start to do this deal. If you cannot or have not identified with anything that we've said, and don't agree with anything we've said over this weekend, absolutely forget it. If you have and you're in these rooms and you are suffering, come visit us. Come study this book with us. We're only a few hours down the road. If you're sitting in meetings, open discussion meetings and the message isn't being carried and you're suffering, you have a right to try and change the format of that meeting through a group conscience. And if that meeting does not want to change through a Group Conscience, you get to go and start your own meeting based on the literature, based on The Big Book. If you want to know where this comes from, this comes through sheer experience, but behind our group is the primary purpose group in Dallas, Texas and they can be found at www.ppgaadallas.org We're down the road, come visit us, come study with us If you get sick of open discussion meetings or getting sick of living sober meetings try and change it through a group conscience or start your own meeting based on the literature Behind all of this, the experience there is a great website out there called XA Speakers and if you want to hear more about this because it goes beyond what Peter and I have been sharing about, it goes beyond this. There is a website out there www.xaminusspeakers.org and there is a whole website of speaker after speaker after speaker carrying the message of Alcoholics Anonymous through the big book and I'll share this not for any other value because it's helped me it may help you. Guys like Chris R out of Ingram, Texas. Myers R out Dallas, Texas, Peter M out of Union, New Jersey and Don P out of Aurora, Colorado. Type those in, listen to where this comes from. This goes beyond this. I personally need to thank those people that I've just mentioned. I want to thank Julia for this invitation and for a great weekend, thank all of you for your hospitality in making this conference if there's anything that we can do or I can do and I'm pretty sure I can speak for Peter as well, grab us after this, we'll hang around, we're swapping emails, if you want to do any of this stuff we can help you get connected to where you need to get connected to thanks for giving me the chance to work with others this weekend, thanks for giving me a chance to carry this message about the programme out of the first 164 pages of the Big Book You've probably helped me more than it has you. I'll leave it there, thanks.