Working With Others – Big Book Workshop – Westfield Big Book Workshop – Part 1 of 2 – Rose C.

God, please help me set aside everything I think I know about myself, my disease, these steps and especially you for an open mind and a new experience with myself, my disease. These steps and especially you tonight we are on working with others and I'd like to introduce Rose everybody my name is Rose I'm an alcoholic so they've asked me to come and present on chapter 7 working with others which starts on page 89 in our books you want to flip that open Just as an introduction, I am a real alcoholic. My name is Rose. I'm a real alcoholic. When I got here in 1998, I didn't think that I was. I thought I was a high-bottom drunk. I was divorced. I didnít have a house to live in. I didnís have a job. I had a car that was red and it had a white door and it had duct tape on it because when it rained, the water would come in and I thought that was all okay. I soon realized, it didn't take too long, but I realized pretty quickly that I was not a high-bottom drunk. I really lost everything. I lost everything The only thing I didn't lose was custody of my child, and when I agreed to go into treatment, that was the last thing that was going to be taken. If I hadn't agreed to GoToTreatment when I did, she was goingto be taken away from me. and through the miracle of AA and the 12 steps as they're presented in the book I've managed to get sober stay sober want to continue to stay sober for it's been about 12 and a half years now when I first got here I had no intention of staying none whatsoever I figured I'd get like one of those cute little 90-day pins that they used to give out and then like go drink and then go get another 90- Day pin and like have a matching set and then, like, that's what I thought I was going to do. I really did. And I'm very grateful that I didn't. My first 30 days was in a rehab and I got out and two weeks later I smoked something that is a non-conference approved substance and I didn't realize until right before I was supposed to celebrate six years that it counted and I was like but this is AA you know nobody asked I also didn't offer the information up and you know I realized that some are sicker than others and this is a program for me of rigorous honesty and I really need to be rigorously honest and that was something that once I realized it, I was like, oh my God. So I have a sponsor. I've had... I'm on my third big book sponsor in the past few years. I had a sponsor who took me through the big book here in New Jersey and then I had another one in New jersey and then she moved to North Carolina and didn't come back So I was told to find another one. So I'm in the process of going through another fourth and fifth step, which I actually just did last weekend in the car driving to Ohio. So went out to Akron for a women's retreat, and it was very, very cool. So I've been asked to present on working with others, and working with other is one of those things that before I had gone through the book, I would sponsor people but I didn't really know what that meant and pretty much what it meant in the group that I was in that was you know a typical AA group was that you know I would give you my number and then you would call and you would tell me your drama and I'd go oh that's really you know I'm sorry did you try X, Y, and Z and I would dispense advice that I probably wasn't qualified to dispense and you know These people, I couldn't understand why people would keep drinking and all this other stuff. But I didn't have any guidance at that point. I didn' t really understand how to work the 12 steps. I hadn' t done them. I was sponsoring people because I was told that I could. And my first sponsor, I was sold in the beginning to find a sponsor who would work the first five steps. And I did. But she had only worked the first 5 steps and that was it. So it was a problem when we got to 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. because she had no experience with it. And so I finally did find somebody who had worked all 12 steps, and then when it came to, you know, after I had done my inventory and I was out making amends, this person was like, go, sponsor. You know, it's like, I don't want to. So every woman that came into the room ended up being the victim of my sponsorship. now I took them through the work the way I was taken through the work and it's funny because I still have there I still sponsor a lot of them now and so I'm currently sponsoring nine women and they range from I don't know I guess the one has about 50 days of sobriety this time and all the way up to 30 years and it's kind of cool and everything in between and you know it's And it's something, working with others, I didn't really understand why I, you know, because I'm a single mother. I work. I go to school. I do all this stuff. Like, I don't really have time. And somehow God just gives it to me. He gives me the time to work with women. And, you Know, sobriety is sobriery. It's still life. It doesn't mean that, you Now, once I get here, I'm just going to, You know, have a bed of roses and, You Know, everything's perfect and fun and fancy free. Because it's not. It's life. It's messy. and when um i've had times you know in my life where things are really difficult and i'm facing a lot of challenges and there's been moments where those the people that i sponsor are carrying me you know not doing anything for them they're saving my life um and it's um to actually watch somebody change and have a spiritual experience right in front of you is the most unbelievable experience i mean i thought i thought like getting my degree would be like the most unbelievable experience ever and it was cool but you know i thought that like you know raising my child would you know and seeing her grow up would be the most understandable experience of my life and that's very cool too to actually watch somebody physically change and watch the light come into their soul and you can see it like what right in front of you and they change and it's like wow i mean that's amazing and um and i've had the unbelievable opportunity to actually watch that happen and walk with these women as they go through their journey in sobriety it's very very cool it's um and it starts right here on page 89 um it says first sentence is like okay so i'm a single mother and i work full time and i'm sober and i do the steps and blah blah blah and i don't have time to work with others well it says right here it says practical experience shows that nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with alcohol other alcoholics sounds kind of important you know um i think my life may depend on it Um, it works when other activities fail. So even when I'm having like the worst day of, you know, ever, everything has blown up in my face, you know? And I will try, I'll try anything. I'll Try shopping to make me feel better. I will Try, you know talking about stuff to other people to make feel better, I'll go into a therapist, I'll massage therapy, I will anything. Try eating, I Will try just about anything. I love to get in my car and drive I'll go to the beach, I'll escape I'll book plane tickets I'll do anything to make me feel better and the only thing that actually ensures me from going back to a drink is working with other alcoholics and every time I do it it was funny because today was a really bad day and I had a sponsee down at where we were and we were working on steps 6 and 7 you know in this beautiful place in the sunshine on the deck and it was near the beach and it was like all the problems that were, you know, plaguing my little brain suddenly don't seem that important, you now. It's amazing, you kno. It's absolutely amazing. There's these promises right here on page 89. It says life will take on new meaning. To watch people recover, to see them help others, to watch loneliness vanish, to have a fellowship grow up about you, to have a host of friends this is an experience you must not miss we know you will not want to miss it frequent contact with newcomers and with each other is the bright spot of our lives i just spent a weekend with a house full of 12 recovered alcoholic women i mean it was awesome we had a blast it was just so much fun you know um 10 years ago you know when i was two years sober do you seriously think i would have gotten in my car and gone to a house with 12 women that half of which i didn't know and like go for a weekend you know no i wouldn't have because i was terrified i was just terrified but it's something that you know um it's nothing that's changed in my life and i'm extremely grateful for it um i love it when people say well i can't find anybody to work with oh here you go perhaps you are not acquainted with any drinkers who want to recover you can easily find some by asking a few doctors ministers priests or hospitals that's you know i mean there are alcoholics dropping into oblivion day day after day after today after day everywhere they're everywhere you know um treatment facilities you know that's why i do commitments i do treat i'll go to treatment facilities i have a sponsee who does a jail commitment on a regular basis at a women's prison um out in west jersey you know it's carrying this message to people who are suffering can happen anywhere it can happen everywhere it's kind of amazing i you know i was speaking to a woman last weekend who was 12 stepping some guy outside you know at the entrance of the emergency room at a hospital you know he was passed out on the bench and he kind of woke up And she's like, hey, how are you doing? And she just started talking to him. She was in for massive surgery and wanted a cigarette. So she went outside in her little robe and her wheelchair, and she's 12-stepping this man who's on the park bench. You know, like, this is amazing stuff. I mean, who does that? We do. That's who does it. We do." You know, it's, but it says, there's a couple of warnings in here that I really appreciate. Don't start out as an evangelist or reformer, you know. Don't go into a rehab and say, you're doing it all wrong. I have the answer. They don't like that, you now. They really don't want to do it. They really like that. And it says... You know what I mean? We have a solution. We have A solution. and it's worked for hundreds of thousands of people, millions of people I guess at this point. It's a solution. It says here ministers and doctors are competent and you can learn much from them if you wish but it happens that because of your own drinking experience you can be uniquely useful to other alcoholics. So cooperate, never criticize. To be helpful is our only aim. It's a big deal. And then it goes through here, like how to work with another alcoholic. It's an entire chapter dedicated to step 12. So it might be kind of important. There's no other chapter in here dedicated to one step. When you discover a prospect for Alcoholics Anonymous, find out all you can about him. um you know it talks about you know talk with a person in the next paragraph talk with the most interested in him usually his wife or child or you know boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever it is you know. It doesn't matter who you're talking to but you need to get some information about these people. Get an idea of his behavior, his problems, his background, the seriousness of his condition and his religious leanings. You know it's helpful to know. I gotta tell you I've worked with i had a newcomer a couple years ago and she was a um she was born again christian and i have no i've no religious affiliation that's just my thing i work on a spiritual basis and that's it i don't associate myself with the church and she had a real serious problem with the fact that i didn't have the same belief that she had and it was like okay you know there came a certain point where it kind of went like this and you know what she'd be much better off with somebody who does have a similar belief it's i just couldn't be helpful to her in that manner and she had a hard time trusting me because of it so you know you got to find these things out you know it's um it's important you know its really important um i've had sponsees who have asked me to work with them that have you know been sober six seven eight years and they've been through the book and they know it all of course their you know their lives are shattered and they can't figure out why. And so I start calling around, and I find out information about them. I'm not doing it to be gossipy, but I'll call and say, Hi, I know that you are good friends with this person. Could you please tell me a little bit about them? Like what they're like so that I can have a clue as to what I'm dealing with. I also, when I meet somebody, I need to find out if they're on medications, if they'RE on antidepressants. Because I am not a doctor, and I don't know what's best for you in that regard. But if you are on medications, you need to be accountable to a psychiatrist or a doctor or whoever is taking care of you. That's got to be taken care of because it's a separate issue. I've got to learn it works much better if I know a little bit about their background, where they come from, where they live, what their situation is in order to be more effective. and i love it because they talk about this in here a lot about um sometimes it is wise to wait until he goes on a binge so many times we you know in aa as sober people like somebody comes in and they're like you know so-and-so's drinking yeah we're alcoholics i got news for you we drink that's what we do you know i mean it's like we really can't be shocked when somebody drinks, you know. It's like, and it's sad because I've actually seen a lot of the girls that I work with are chronic relapsers and I've watched them, I've known that they have been asked to leave meetings and they've been shunned in meetings because they relapsed. And, you Know, a relapse is not, you Now, it's not a bad thing necessarily. You Know, here it says, You Know if somebody, if I got a sponsee who's like you know i know they're on their way out what am i going to do what well i'm going to go and take their mouth or like what prevent them from drinking no i have to let them do it because when they come back if they make it back they're usually a little bit more willing to follow the directions because they are real they're coming to that idea of powerlessness i had one that i've been working with since january and you know she has 50 days you know and i have another one who has three and a half years. I mean, this woman, I didn't even want to sponsor her because she was the most heartbreaking woman I had ever met. And my sponsor told me to change my attitude. But I had watched this woman literally walk back from death more than once. It was really scary. She'd been in a coma. She had relapsed three or four times in the time I had known her. And, you know, this time she was done. She was done and she was broken and what was i going to do say no i'm not going to help you well because you're you know of course at first i didn't want to but you know i was pushed and i i'm very compliant when it comes to sponsorship so i started working with her and um today she's one of my my closest friends you know she's like a sister she's a family member it's kind of amazing um you know it's sometimes it's okay when they drink you know i've had sponsees where not even sponsee's i've worked with women where you know they started drinking and then they've called for help and you know have gone over and they're they're in it you can't talk recovery when they're drunk you got to wait until they come out of it a little bit um but you know Sometimes you have to go and get a bottle and make sure that they have enough. I mean, that's another question that I always ask new people that are brand new is this, do you have a history of seizures? Because I am not prepared to handle a grand mal seizure. I'm just not. And if this one woman that I was in contact with, she had a history of seizures and I knew it. So we made sure that she was stocked for when she woke up and started detoxing, you know, and going into the DTs. You know, just she needed to have enough alcohol with her so she didn't seize, okay? Detoxing from alcohol is serious business. This is not a game. It's a life or death situation. And if somebody has a history of seizures, I always take them to the hospital. You know? I suggest we need to go to the hospital because, you know, if you seize, I can't help you, you know. People die from detoxing from alcohol, you know. It talks about it throughout the book. You know, what is it? Esophageal hemorrhages, heart attacks, strokes, you know, all kinds of crazy stuff happens when you detox from alcohol and sometimes the doctor needs to be there and they have to be watched. I won't play around with that. I just won't play around with that, um, when I'm going to see a wet drunk, you know, like I always bring a, what is it, a plastic bag, a towel and a bottle of booze, you know, because they're messy, they have a tendency to puke, you know, I mean, they just do, I mean, I know I was a puker, you know. Um, it's, you know don't, might want to cover your seats in your car, you know? It could be a good idea. But anyway, I digress. It says in here, you know, if he does not want to see you, never force yourself upon him. Okay? We're not here to force feed anybody anything. You know, that's not what we do. We don't chase people who don't want to get sober. um you know neither should the family hysterically plead with him to do anything you know nor should they tell you much about tell him much about you you know i mean a non-alcoholic doesn't understand me i mean they just don't you know it is what it is i need to be able to identify with a new person you know um you Know it's funny in here it talks about you know when possible avoid meeting a man through his family approach through a doctor and institution is a better bet you know with all the rehabs and treatment facilities we have these days that makes it's like such a piece of cake it's so easy to do that you know um and if he needs hospitalization you should have it but not forcibly unless he's violent you know i'm not above calling the cops if somebody gets violent with me i'm just not putting up with that you know i can't um it's um but it also says in here you know it's call on him when he is still jittery they're best and like super receptive when they're really depressed and they're sick you know like that's the best time to talk to a newcomer you know it's we're awfully receptive when we're down on the ground we really are um and then basically what i do when i meet somebody is i'll explain to them what it was like for me and if this is like the war story you know it's time to tell your war story because when somebody sees me you know and they find out that i've been sober for 12 years or whatever and you know blah blah blah and you now i work for a large corporation and i have a nice place and you know i drive a decent car and all that stuff they're looking at me like yeah i don't you're good like you know they don't understand what i was so they have to understand what i was and you know what iwas was a blithering drunk that puked on the ground and passed out anywhere roofs front lawns you know in the car it didn't really matter where i used to drive in a blackout 99% of the time i drove drunk every day i used to do the daily check to see if my car was there because I didn't know. Then I would check if I hit anything. I used to take out the gate all the time. I also was slinging beers in a go-go bar. I was not working in a corporation. I was slanging beers in a doggone bar and that's where I was when, you know, I was so lovingly carried out by a bouncer and delivered to my father's front porch. You know, half naked. Don't ask. It was a mess, you know. I was a Mess. I mean, when women talk to me, you know, like they, a couple of the ladies were saying that I make them feel so safe. Now, 12, okay, 13 years ago, women did not feel safe around me because they knew that I was going to try to steal their boyfriend, you now. Like, that's the kind of girl I was. I was an nasty, nasty woman. I was just, I was mean. I was spiteful. I was sarcastic. I was so nasty and so negative and just like the hunter it was so sick, I was very aggressive I talked like a truck driver but not quite as much I was incredibly rude unbelievably inconsiderate my family didn't even want me in their house they changed the locks and didn't give me the key I mean that's just what it was and I was a totally unfit mother you know I was not a good mother at all. So when I meet somebody who's lost custody of her kids, I have to let her know that I understand where she's at. She has to be able to identify with that and know that I'm not judging her. I don't look at anybody who's an alcoholic who's lost everything as something lower than me because that is me. That's me. Every single woman I work with today is me in some form. When somebody is in an abusive relationship, I have experience with that too. So yeah, okay, you know, I will relate my experience with that. If somebody has experience with being arrested, I have no experience with that. I don't. I know lots of people who do. So I will refer them to them. You know, I don t dispense any, I don give advice on anything that I don't have personal experience with. You know, it's for years I'm in a healthy relationship now and it's a very, very good relationship and a healthy relationship. Prior to this I was not. Okay? When people would come to me with marriage issues I'm like, yeah, I'm not married. Why would you come to be with me for advice? I divorced my ex-husband and kicked him out of the house with a restraining order. Why would you want to come to me for marriage advice? That makes no sense. You know what I mean? It's, you know, and all right, so basically what I'm saying is I need to share my experience and then I needと let them know how I got sober and how I recovered, okay? It says in here, you knоw, be careful not to moralize or lecture. If his mood is light, tell him humorous stories of your escapades. get him to tell you some of his. This is the identification process, and it's so important. It's so importante that you identify with people that you're working with. And if they don't understand the language you're speaking, they may not be an alcoholic. You know, that's the bottom line. Like when I say to somebody that when I picked up one drink, when I said after a shift at the bar that I was going to stay for one drink I meant I was gonna stay for 1 drink. And when I sat down and I had that drink in my hand and I took a sip of it, all of a sudden I got really thirsty. And then at 4 o'clock in the morning, I'd go home after 16 drinks or whatever it was. I don't even know. I was in a blackout. I didn't count them. But if they don't understand that, if they Don't experience that and they don' t identify with that, I can't help them. I know people who are binge drinkers, and I know who to refer them to. You know, it's like I was a massive blackout drinker. You know? That's just what I did. So, um... It says in here on page 92, and I... Just because somebody walks in the rooms of AA does not make them an alcoholic. I've met lots of hard drinkers. I've let... I've meant lots of people who just got caught once. They got a DWI. They got caught one. If it was a mistake, they never do it again. That is not necessarily an alcoholic, you know. The one who walks in who's on their 10th DWI, maybe. I personally never got a DWI. Does that make me a non-alcoholic? I promise you it doesn't. But it says on here on page 92, if you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic, begin to dwell on the hopelessness feature of the malady. Okay. So here it is. You've basically identified with them and they're like identifying with you and they are starting to feel a little comfortable with you. And if I have actually determined, you know, I really believe that this is a real alcoholic, then I am going to tell you how horrible, horribly doomed they are if they continue drinking because the bottom line is they have to get to a point where they are willing to admit that they are powerless over alcohol and that's all i'm working on you know we need to be convinced i had to be convinced that i was a real alcoholic i didn't really know that i wasn't until i was brought through this identification process and it was explained to me how hopeless my condition was i really had to understand that and identify it and really see the elements of it in order to say yes i am a real alcoholic you know just because i landed in a rehab on a nice sunday morning in march does not make me an alcoholic that's what i thought identified me as an alcoholic for i thought that for a long time and it's inaccurate you know i mean just because i end up in treatment just because I end up getting pulled over and getting a ticket for DWI does not necessarily make me alcoholic it's not those things it's the other stuff that they've talked about in previous chapters you know about that that hopelessness that hole in our soul that we have that that spiritual malady you know that nothing solves nothing you know everything is temporary it's a temporary fix and it always gets worse and they you know i remember what that was like i remember that feeling you know and so i can grab on to that feeling and explain it and verbalize it to somebody and identify with them. And when they see that, and I say, you know, and then the sad thing is, is that I'm doomed to pick up another drink again no matter what I do. No matter what I try, unless I actually work the 12 steps and find a God of my understanding that will solve all my problems, I am doomed. And When They Start Going, Wow, I'm Doomed Too. I'm like, Yeah, right you want to go and find the solution with me because i know what it is and they're like yeah you know you have to have that kind of like push the one girl that i've been working with that has like 50 days she's awesome i just love her and you know she she wasn't sure she just wasn't true she's young and she's like you know i have all these other issues You know, maybe it's this. Maybe it's that. I'm like, maybe it is. I don't know. You know? And she would, she'd go out and she'd drink and she would do all the other stuff that went along with that, which is, it's hairy and it's scary. I mean, it's terrifying to get these phone calls when, you know, somebody that you started working with that, I mean I see the light in this girl. I just see it there and it is right under the surface. She is just not there yet. And the last time she came back we sat down and we were going through in the book you know the description of the alcoholic and she was like you know what this is really unfair and i was like what she goes i'm screwed i go yeah you are and she's like oh my god i said but i have a solution she goes I know she knows I have a resolution and I'm like you want to find it and she said yeah I do she's got 50 days maybe this is it for her I don't know you know we'll see We'll see what happens. You know, it's – but there's got to be that kind of excitement there. You know? I've got news for you. When I was brand new, I did not want to walk into somebody saying, okay, you have to do X, Y, and Z. I was like, see ya. Right? I mean, alcoholics are defiant. That's a defining characteristic of us. Tell me what to do, and I'm going to do the opposite. Thank you very much. Am I wrong? I mean anybody identify with that? You know, so, and I, when people call me and say things like, well, I can't drink. I'm like, of course you can. It's not, you know, look, watch. It's Not Hard. We can pick up a drink anytime we want. You know. I am not going to stand in the way of somebody and their drink that is going to convince them that they are an alcoholic. I'm not going stand in because. Bless you. continue to speak of alcoholism as an illness a fatal malady when i found out that i was ill that this was this this thing that what made me so messed up and you know made my family hate me and made my friends desert me and made me lose jobs all the time and treat my daughter horribly and you do not be present when i find out that that was because i was sick it was like a relief I was like, oh my God it's just an illness you know, like diabetes is an illness it can be controlled you know just because I stop drinking doesn't mean that my illness doesn't keep progressing you know and that's something that I've noticed in my life that my my alcoholism continues to go along even though I'm not feeding it alcohol you know it has to be continually treated explain that many are doomed who never realize their predicament. Alcoholics are infamous for having no clue how much trouble we're in. We have no clue how much struggle we're In. You know, we're like, ah, it's not that bad. I minimize everything. You know? I mean, the first time that I blacked out, fell down, got the crap beaten out of me, woke up with a concussion with a big thing on the side of my head because my best friend had straddled me in the snow and pushed snow in my face to try to wake me up and, like, punched me. What do you think I did the next weekend? I went to the same house and I drank the same thing with the same girl. I mean, hello? You know, I mean it's unbelievable how oblivious we are to how much trouble we're really in. You know that was when I was 16 years old. I got sober when I Was 25. So, you know, I mean, it's kind of shocking. So once you've got them totally and completely convinced that they are suffering from a hopeless state of mind and body, that they're totally and complete doomed to die an alcoholic death if they keep drinking, then you just take them right here. And it says on 93, it says tell them exactly what happened to you. Express the spiritual feature freely. You don't bring the spiritual part of the program into it until here, until they're totally convinced. If the man be agnostic or atheist, make it emphatic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God. It's in italics. It's important. He can choose any conception he likes provided it makes sense to him. The main thing is that he'd be willing to believe in a power greater than himself and that he lived by spiritual principles. I had one sponsee who couldn't say father. She said mother. You know, it was the goddess. i have another sponsor who said goes with uh god of my understanding um gomu i like it you know it's gomau i'm like so ask gomou to help you out you know and she's okay with that you know that works for her um you can it can be whatever it is that you need it to be and um i lost my clock there it is um you know use everyday language to describe spiritual principles you know i i don't shove any kind of religious anything down anybody's throat i just can't i found that very distasteful i still do sometimes you know I don't really like it when people sit there and you know say things that are all religious and stuff I'm just you know it's just not my deal the biggest thing when you've got somebody who belongs to a religious denomination I actually worked with a woman who was a practicing Catholic and I remember taking her through the book and we got to the chapter and she said it doesn't apply to me and I said well why not and she goes well because I'm a practicing catholic and I thought well let's just read it just for fun so we read it and we got to the end of it and she came to the realization that she was a full-blown agnostic you know you can't skip over these things they're important you know it just because you have you know a religious belief doesn't mean that that translates into spiritual action in the beginning when somebody said like i had a real problem with the whole turkey god thing And, you know, I just had a problem with that. It kind of made me uncomfortable and I didn't really want to stick around. And when somebody said to me that religion was for people who didn't want to go to hell and spirituality was for People Who Didn't Want To Go Back, that stuck. And I was like, I can get with that, I could totally get withthat because I've already been to hell several times. I don't wantto go back. And Iwaslike, okay, Ican do that, Icandothat, youknow. You know, it says here, let him see that you are not there to instruct him in religion. I am not here to change your mind. I am NOT here to get you to go to church. I had somebody say to me early in sobriety, what you need to do is find a really nice church where you can find fellowship and then you'll be okay. I did not talk to her again. She had over 20 years of sobriete. I have no idea what she could have taught me. But I cut her right out. Done. so if we want to be helpful we need to be open minded and we have to remember that we are dealing with sick people and just because somebody hasn't had a drink in a long time doesn't mean they're well I promise I was not well at five years of sobriety I was contemplating suicide on a daily basis I wasnotwell I promise so just because somebody has been coming to meetings for a long time does not mean that they have an actual program of action that's working in their lives. It does not mean that they're recovered. Don't blow them off. It's huge. We have to be of service. We have to. I love this part. On page 94, it says, outline the program of action explaining how you made a self-appraisal, how you straightened out your past, and why you are now endeavoring to be helpful to this person. It is important for him to realize that your attempt to pass this on to him plays a vital part in your own recovery sponsees and people that i work with keep me alive i'm not kidding they really keep me live um service work keeps me alive it's it's incredible um make it plain he is under no obligation to you i will never ever like let somebody somebody somebody wanted to pay me they wanted to pay me for helping their wife and i was like i can't take your money are you kidding you know it was like no you know i can't do that oh my god you know it's you know I could have used the money at the time but i couldn't take it that's not what this is about sponsees and people that we work with are not meant to clean our houses that's not what they're here for they're not here to fix our cars they're no here to do our personal errands they're non here to be our babysitters and I'm not here to be their babysitter or their child care provider or their taxi cab that's just not what we do you know when we talk it says in here again it says make it clear that he is not under pressure that he needn't see you again if he doesn't want to you should not be offended if he wants to call it off for he has helped you more than you have helped him it doesn't matter how many you know you've heard people say you know i had a sponsee and he drank on me you know people drink you know but the thing is is when i'm working with somebody it doesn'T matter if they go out and drink i've stayed sober that day because i'm reaching out it doesn'NT matter what the result is the real result is not in my hands the result is in god's hands you know um you know it says maybe you have disturbed him about the question of alcoholism this is all to the good i actually had one come back and say i've got a belly full of booze and a head full of aa and it sucks i was like yeah you know its okay welcome back the more hopeless he feels the better you know when people get newly sober and they say but i feel like crap guess what you're supposed to you're exposed to feel horrible when you get sober it is not fun to get sober and it's okay you're not going to burst into flames doing a fourth step you know i did know one girl who almost burst into flame she got a really bad sunburn and i started laughing i was like oh my god you're like the first person who almost burst into flames doing a fourth step she didn't though it was just really badly burned in blistery your candidate may give reasons why he need not fall follow all of the program he may rebel at the thought of a drastic housecleaning which requires discussion with other people. Do not contradict such views. Tell him you once felt as he did, but doubt whether you would have made such progress if you had not taken action. If somebody is in the middle of step work and they refuse to do an inventory, I would let them go. I let them know. I let go. Mike, when you're ready, call me. I'm here. You know, I never close the door. but I'm not going to waste my time on it because there's nine of them like you know it says in here you know it says it a couple of times that if they're not willing you need to let them go here it is on page 96 to spend too much time on any one situation is to deny some other alcoholic an opportunity to live and be happy I can't chase a drunk who doesn't want to get sober And I can't chase a drunk who is not willing to do the work. All I know is what I did, and if you're not willing to do what I didn't, I can help you. You know, I had one who wanted to go to the church and get spiritual guidance, and I was like, go for it. You know? And she didn't want to go AA. And I'm like, I don't really know why you'd want an AA sponsor then. It doesn't make any sense. We don't go. You know. You know, and I can't do that because I need to be of service in AA. When it comes to, you know, I mean a lot of us when we get into sobriety, you know, it's, we're a mess. We have nothing, right? You know? And when it comes To Helping Other Alcoholics, yes, I help other alcoholics. I have purchased a plane ticket for an alcoholic. I have paid for retreats for alcoholics. I've done that. People also did that for me, which is why I did it for the other people. I don't want them to pay me back. What I want them zu do is when they sponsor somebody else, they pay it forward. Okay, I bought the one a slice of pizza. She thinks she owes me $2.20. She does not owe me $1.20 after I asked her to buy a slice de pizza for the girl that she works with, right? I don' t give it if I don''t have it. I don't, you know, max out my credit card to help an alcoholic. I can't do that because I can not take out of the mouth of my child to give it to an alcoholic, okay? And I can' t like skimp on my bills and, you know, I can only file bankruptcy once. So, you know, I can t do that again and I can t be irresponsible when it comes to helping people. If you need to stay on my couch, I will let you stay on my couch. It's a couch with a lot of cat hair on it. I'm sorry you know it is what it is but i'm not going to have you move in with me and you know displace my daughter it's not happening if i don't feel that i'm safe with you i'm gonna hide my money i got news for you and my jewelry it's just gonna get hidden because you know alcoholics when they're new are a mess you know i've seen people who um i had a sponsee who gave a cell phone to somebody um you know to temporarily use for a month she racked up 180 in internet charges she's not going to meetings so it's you know sometimes this happens and that's okay but it's you know there's ways to help people we can't enable anybody you know i can't provide for somebody because i mean one of the one of those traditions is we're self-supporting through our own contribution that applies to me on a personal level too and every woman i work with has to become self-supporting through her own contributions okay um it's you know i've seen people who have helped people get jobs i've also seen people get burned by alcoholics and that's okay you know it is what it is it's up to you if you want to give them a job you know but remember you're hiring an alcoholic who may or may not be recovered so you know I mean stuff happens um in my home my daughter is used to coming home to strange people sitting on our couch and she's very comfortable with it. If she was uncomfortable with it, I wouldn't have it. I'd meet somebody somewhere else. That's just what it is. It's, you know, if my daughter's going through something and I have a sponsee scheduled to come over, I'll cancel because my daughter is going through something and she needs me. I'm not going to put a sponcee before my kid. I can't do that. Um, you know, it says on here, you know, be certain that he would be, he will be welcomed by your family and that he is not trying to impose upon you from money connections or shelter. Permit that and you only harm him. It's called enabling. Enabling is doing something for somebody that they are perfectly capable of doing for themselves and in the process cutting their legs off. It's handicapping another human being. We don't have the right to do that. page 97 i love this paragraph it says never avoid these responsibilities but be sure you are doing the right thing if you assume them helping others is the foundation stone of your recovery a kindly act once in a while isn't enough you have to act a good samaritan every day if need be it may mean the loss of many nights sleep greater interference with your pleasures interruptions to your business it may means sharing your money in your home counseling frantic wives and relatives innumerable trips police courts sanitariums hospitals jails and asylums your telephone telephone may jangle at any time of day or night your wife may say she is neglected a drunk may smash the furniture in your house or burn a mattress i've never had that happen i have to admit um somebody did break a vase but who cares you know um you may have to fight with him if he is violent i've absolutely never had that happen i almost did have to fighting with somebody who was stalking one of them though that was interesting the guy was like he was messed up and he was pounding on her door and i asked him to leave politely and he didn't so i you know picked up the phone and i started calling the cops and he came over and he started yelling at me so i politely asked him to be quiet because i was on the phone and i called the police and i asked him to come and he was screaming at me and i said sir please just give me a minute i'm on the phone so i was talking to the policeand then they came and he left he was busted two days later because he was there again you know you can ask cops to come and watch people you know do drive-bys um you know i had a drunk who was living in a house by herself and she had this guy stalking her So the cops would do drive-bys. They'll do that. They're very, very nice and helpful. You know, if you explain the situation, they can be very, very helpful. He got busted because when he talked to the cop and went to smoke a cigarette, a bag of cocaine fell out of it. So I was like, yeah. You know? I don't have to take care of these people. They take care themselves. Sometimes you will have to call a doctor and administer or sedatives under his direction. Another time you may have to send for a police or an ambulance. Occasionally, you will have to meet such conditions. These are things that we have to do. I have to tell you, when somebody asks me to go to court with them, I let them know that I'm going to tell the truth. Okay? I'm gonna be honest. So if you've asked me to be your sponsor and then you've canceled three appointments and you're not showing up and you'RE NOT doing your assignments and youRE NOT doing YOUR reading and you'RE NOT DOING YOUR inventory, THAT'S what the police court is gonna HEAR. Okay? So if you want to give my number to a parole officer or a probation officer or anybody like that, go ahead. I'm totally cool with that. But I will tell the truth. I don't lie to the law enforcement people. I don'T lie to treatment facilities. If I know somebody's been using, I will call them they've been using. Period. End of story. I'd much rather you hate me sober than love me drunk. Much rather. you know um it is a program of rigorous honesty i can't be dishonest in that regard if somebody is doing everything he can absolutely do you know and they're doing their inventory they're going to meetings they'redoing as much as they can possibly do i'm going to tell them that you know um i've written recommendation letters for a couple of people and um you know both times i i felt really good about writing a recommendation letter to the court i had no issue with doing that you know um I work in the law field you know not directly with the courts anymore but you know I don't have an issue with going and talking to a judge I don'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THAT IT'S TOTALLY COOL AND I'LL DO IT ANY TIME YOU KNOW I WILL GO TO COURT WITH YOU IF YOU HAVE ISSUes YOU KNOW WITH WHATEVER YOU KNOW DONE THAT TOO UM I'VE GONE TO UM SPEAK WITH DOCTORS OF SPONSIES WHO ARE BEING TREATED FOR SOMETHING SERIOUS YOU KNOW LIKE ABOUT THEIR THE FACT that they're in recovery and they can't have certain painkillers. You know, I sat down with one of my sponsees and discussed pain management before she had heart surgery. You know it's they thought I was her sister It's okay They found out eventually and I said no I'm not her sister I never said I'm her sister They just thought I wasn't You know That's what we do That's how we do for people You know, I will go to the ends of the earth for my sponsees. I know that if I pick up the phone and I call my sponsor and I need something, she's going to be there for me. And it's, you know, one of the things that is so important when it comes to working with others is following through and doing what you say you're going to do, you Know, because we lead by example, you Now. Here's the part that I love. it's um what time are we doing till you get about five more minutes okay on page 98 i love it when i get women who are like i have to get sober so i can get my kids back like yeah obviously your kids are not with you for a reason okay all right it's i was not a good mother if my kid had been taken away from me it would have been for good cause okay sometimes not having your kids with you or not having your husband with you or being kicked out of the house is a good thing because then you can actually focus on getting recovered instead of trying to get everything back I have to make tons of money you know my job isn't enough it says right here on page 98 in the middle of the first full paragraph it says he clamors for this or that claiming he cannot master alcohol until his material needs are cared for nonsense some of us have taken very hard knocks to learn this truth job or no job wife or no wife we simply do not stop drinking so long as we place dependence upon other people ahead of dependence upon god that includes dependence on money okay when i got here i didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of i was on the welfare system and getting a food stamp check you know the food stamp things you know they didn't have the cute little card back then it was like the things that you tore out of the book it was really it was you know and yes I went and I bought the cookies for my group because they would give and they I explained to them I don't have any money and they would Give me the money ahead of time. And then I would bring back the receipts, you know, because I didn't Have the money. I bought the coffee about the cookies, I set up the chairs, I cleaned up the chairs i wiped the coffee pots down i did the service you know announcements i did the mailings i did all that stuff you know like i had to throw myself into being of service and it doesn't matter it doesn'T MATTER if you don't have a job if you DON'T HAVE A JOB THAT'S AWESOME BECAUSE NOW YOU HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO DO YOUR STEP WORK YOU KNOW AND TO BE OF SERVICE IF YOU HAVE TEN DAYS AND SOMEBODY COMES IN AND THEY'VE GOT ONE DAY you've got something that you can give them you know i mean it's just it is what it is um burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone my mother yelled at me so i drank yeah okay you know I mean my boyfriend dumped me so I got drunk right it's all his fault okay right it has nothing to do with it okay not once did somebody strap me down and pour alcohol down my throat every time i picked it up with my own two hands every time you know i was living in the basement of my parents house i was like the girl under the stairs with my my daughter in sharing a room in a basement and it's like yeah i was in mendham but But I was driving the car with the white door and the red body and the duct tape. And I got pulled over on a regular basis. And it was just because I had an ugly car. And I was on welfare for a year when I got sober. You know, I didn't have a job. You know? When I did get a job, it was like under the poverty line. But it was a job you know? I also happen to have a lot of experience with the social services department. You know, those services are there for a reason. And they actually really like it when people come and they use their services and then they get off the services. They love that. It's a success story as far as they're concerned. I am more than happy to help people find services and find assistance. I got training through the state of New Jersey, which was an amazing thing. Most people don't know about that. My education was free. I was a bartender. I was an alcoholic bartender, I needed training, you know? I was like, look, you mean I can't bartend? And they're like, yeah, probably not. Here it is again on page 99, let no alcoholic say he can't recover unless he gets his family back. This just isn't so. You know, we need to, if we expect to have anything, we need To Recover first. We don't, you now, that's putting the cart before the horse. We need to recover first before we can have our family back, before we become employable, before any of these things happen. That was my experience. And when people are saying, well, I have to pay off all the credit card debt, well, stop using the credit cards and try to recover fast. Then we'll work on the debt. It's okay. Okay. the last thing that I want to leave you with is actually in the back here oh no, never mind it says working with others this kind of sums it up your job is now to be at the place on page 102 where you may be of maximum healthiness to others so never hesitate to go anywhere if you can be helpful you should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such an errand keep on the firing line of life and these motives and God will keep you unharmed I'm totally safe to walk into a bar I don't have a problem with it I'm totally safe, I know that if I have to go down to Newark and pull somebody out of a crack house I don'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT that's ok, I'M TAKING SOMEBODY WITH ME AND THEY'RE GONNA BE A BIG DUDE and maybe a weapon but no totally kidding on the weapon thing Pepper spray, yes, but not a weapon. But, you know, I mean, we can go anywhere. We can go everywhere. You know, working with other alcoholics sometimes takes us into, you know, the bellies of hell. I mean that's where alcoholics live. We live in the belllies of hell so we sometimes we need to go there and pull them out. You know if they call and they want help I'm pulling them out, you know, it's I'm not going to do it by myself but it's, you know, if somebody calls and asks for help and I don't actually reach out and help them and they die i've got that on my conscience don't i you know sometimes i'm the one that's supposed to help them sometimes it's not me sometimes it'S somebody else you know it'S totally you know i mean we did what night watch over the weekend and you know a couple of girls were sharing about how they had called night watch at like two o'clock in a saturday afternoon and they were dying because they thought they were going to drink and somebody said um you You know, I have to cook dinner. I can't help you. That's messed up. I'm sorry. You know? When somebody calls and, you know, last night we had somebody call at like 2 o'clock in the morning. No, it was 1130 at night. I'm Sorry. And we were able to find somebody on the night watch list who was absolutely willing to talk to that person at that moment. That was awesome. You know. That's awesome. you know we need to be of service and when an alcoholic is reaching out it's rare that they do that you know they don't do it all the time i know i didn't i did it once and when they do that we got to grab them because it might be their only chance might be Their Only Chance so um i hope i brought you a decent meeting i'm sorry chat chat chatty and um just open it up or close Thank you, Rose. We have about five minutes for questions, queries, comments, critiques. Concerns. Concerned. Here's a concern. Hi, I'm a colleague. No, it's not a concern, it's just something that really strikes home with me right now at this particular point in time. It says, I started actually depending on my sponsor to the point where, you know, like a little baby bird didn't want to leave the nest. And I've been actually really, really preying on this for quite some time. And I realized it is time for me to make a move forward. And I actually have a, last weekend I was actually able to get a new sponsor and start working the steps of new sponsor. It is a wonderful and great experience. And like I said, you know, it's, you know I stopped calling people in the network and I stopped, you know certain things that I stopped doing because I was relying and being dependent on someone else. And so that's really strong for me tonight. And I just want to thank you for sharing. Thanks a lot. Thanks, Laura. Thanks, Peter. Hi, Kathleen. Just briefly, thank you so much for your qualifications and your sharing. I just got so much out of it and I too am a single mother with two teenage children and, you know, I just remember someone had said early on but I couldn't say it you know we've been in hell and we don't want to go back there you can go to church but I've seen it at least it was my personal health and I don't ever want to see it again and God willing next month I'll have three years I hope and it has not it has been the most amazing journey for me and it grows every single day I mean I actually stopped to meet her and I ran into someone who I was in high focus with and she's checking DUI you know down to Florida and I just walked away I gave her my number I said please call me but I said thank God I'm not in that chaos anymore thank God I'm just able to come here and be able to hear me talk and qualify so thank you so very much peace thanks Bethany my name is Frances and I'm not the holiday and I just want to say thank you also I got a lot from your participation you know I identify a lot with your story with your background and I was thinking while you were sharing how no one who knows you today would think that you were this I have people who tell me, oh, you probably didn't really have a bad bottom. And I say, excuse me? You didn't know me. I was a drunk. I was the falling down, blackout, nasty, didn't give a shit about anybody personally. All I cared about was my drink. That's it. And I did whatever I had to do, you know, shit on whoever I needed to, to get what I wanted. And that was it. That's about it, you don't know. And, you now, thank God I don't look like that anymore. Thank God I can look at people in the face today and I know that I'm only trying to do the next right thing, you know, every single day. And I, you known, I'm working with a few women also, and I have to tell you, they are saving my life every day. Just like you said. if I didn't have them I would be going nuts because no matter what it helps me get out of here but when I stay in here I am crazy and I have a couple of my horse too but I am still left to my own devices and I'll make myself sick, crazy so I really enjoyed listening to you I really liked this meeting here This is my second week here. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for having me. David Pond, Grateful Recovered Alcoholic. You know, I think back when Bill wrote this, it was the first time in probably six or seven or eight years that he had felt useful in life. He'd been a fairly successful stockbroker and then the market crashed in 29 and he'd never gotten back on his feet. And it wasn't until he started helping other alcoholics and stopped preaching to them that things started to change for him, you know? And he gets to write this book, you know, working with others and he's talking about his life blossoming and changing around him and this is just amazing, you now? And then I hear someone like Rose present and I go, yeah, this is how it works, you kno? And it never ceases to amaze me that we can come from where we come from and through a little humility and a lot of faith that what's come before us is going to be good going down the road and trying just to carry that message that we get to experience the exact same kind of blossoming and joy that Bill experienced you know the first time so it was great hearing you tonight Rose and thank you for coming and I'm looking forward to seeing you next week and with that we have a nice way to close it