The Ninth Tradition and Unity – Traditions Workshop – Part 6 of 10 – Local AA Speakers

Good evening, my name is Herb and I'm an alcoholic. Hi, welcome to our Twelve Traditions Workshop. Please join me in the prayer for an open mind. God, please set aside everything that I think I know about myself, my brokenness, the twelve traditions, and you for an opened mind and a new experience with myself, my brokeness, the 12 traditions, and especially you this is the forward to the pamphlet a a tradition how it developed by bill wilson published in 1955 how shall we aas best preserve our unity when an alcoholic applies the 12 steps of our recovery program to his personal life his disintegration stops and his unification begins the power which now holds him together in one piece overcomes those forces which had rent him apart. Exactly the same principle applies to each AA group and to Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole. So long as the ties which bind us together prove far stronger than those forces which would divide us if they could, all will be well. We shall be secure as a movement. Our essential unity will remain a certainty. May we never forget that without permanent unity we can offer little lasting relief to those scores of thousands yet to join us in their quest for freedom. It is the purpose of this workshop to review and discuss each of the Twelve Traditions so we may better understand and apply them to our fellowship and to our personal lives. Please join me in a few minutes of meditation on that purpose, that is why we are here. Please join with me in the serenity prayer. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change The courage to change the things that I can And the wisdom to know the difference We're here to talk about our second legacy, unity And to review the twelve traditions Crosstalk is allowed in a loving and supportive manner To be informed and helpful are our only goals A reminder that the new flyers for the step workshop beginning in January are on the table. There's plenty, so take them if you're so inclined. Many of you know that I lead and facilitate meditation groups on contemplative practice called Centering Prayer. It was originated by a Trappist monk, Thomas Keating, and a documentary film on Thomas is being shown on Saturday the 15th at 7.30 here in Santa Monica. And I don't have all the details, but there's a one-page flyer that has the website if you're interested. in seeing that documentary I think there are like only 50 seats available so they're expecting a small gathering and I have no idea whether they're actually sold out at this point I will be going it's the only one showing I believe at least at this time Saturday the 15th then there's a flyer on the table if you're interested there's also a fly that was distributed by a group in Sherman Oaks they've brought in a speaker from Nashville who I've heard his CDs I like his information and his pitch Scott L and that's on November 15th also that's from 11 to 5 so you could have a full day of it but anyway those flyers are on the table all so I'm just supporting things that support us as I at least see it this is the first announcement I'll be making it periodically and it's a it sounds like it's the long ways away but it's not it's accrues that will take place next October October 18th to the 25th and it's to the Mexican Riviera seven-day cruise I'll be the featured whatever attraction and there'll be other people there and lots of it's a 12-step gathering the whole cruise isn't dedicated to 12 step but there will be a pocket of us probably anywhere from 50 to 100 people if you're interested the flyers are on the table for the first time I'll announce it periodically October 18th and 22 the 25th next year speaking of the contemplative practice of centering prayer Thomas Keating there's a two sided handout that was handed out before you may not have paid attention to it and then again you may there are a supply of them on the table if you're interested. It's a summary of his book, Open Mind, Open Heart, which is the seminal work that launched this about 40 years ago. And it's not that it's a new practice because it's an ancient practice, probably at least 2,000 years old. And he's just put it into a current vocabulary and a current process that, for instance, the English-speaking countries can understand. all right so much for that I like to give a context and an orientation tonight we're going to be talking about the ninth tradition the short form of the ninth tradition is AAA as such ought never be organized but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they served then the long form it's a little long but it has lots of meat in it each aa group needs the least possible organization rotating leadership is the best the small group may elect its secretary the large group its rotating committee and the groups of a large metropolitan area their central or intergroup committee which often employs a full-time secretary the trustees of the general Service Board are, in effect, our AA General Service Committee. They are the custodians of our AA tradition and the receivers of voluntary AA contributions by which we maintain our AA General Service Office in New York. They're authorized by the groups to handle our overall public relations, and they guarantee the integrity of our principal newspaper, the AA Grapevine. All such representatives are to be guided in the spirit of service. For true leaders in aaa are but trusted and experienced servants of the whole totally counter-cultural they derive no real authority from their titles they do not govern and then a wonderful phrase here that goes throughout the literature on step nine uh tradition nine universal respect is the key to their usefulness universal respect and so once again we see the traditions theme right from the beginning the purpose of the traditions themselves and clearly the purpose the single purpose of The First Tradition was unity and each then tradition is to support one facet of that survival through unity the steps are like working out the body to get in shape for the sport or the game the traditions are the guidelines of the game how to play the game the steps squeeze self out of the individual the traditions squeeze individual individuality out of the groups if I don't apply the steps I'll get drunk if we don't applied that traditions will all get drunk the steps integrate us as individuals on the basis of the dependence on God the traditions integrate us with each other in the group with the dependence on our fellowship and our community underneath each step is powerlessness God reliance underneath each tradition is humility group reliance through group conscience the whole total service structure of a a general service and all of the other service structures as you see the organizational structure I'll try to get a outline of that from the central office for the next time we get together is to support carrying the message that's the whole purpose of the structure so is it carrying the message or is it doing the work that supports carrying the message see that goes right back to what we looked at in terms of self-supporting also and some other concepts that we had distinguishing what is service and what is a career it's clearly not to the the structure is not a control structure or an authority structure it's a service structure totally countercultural meaning that business both profit and nonprofit businesses do not run that way they have control they have organization they have authority they have hierarchy Alcoholics Anonymous does not have control authority or hierarchy Alcoholics anonymous is run by the inmates yeah all the members right rather than the primary principles of wealth and authority it's really about love and service those were the two key words that Bob Smith used in his final talk to a conference in 1950 the two simple principles love and service I have more on that later on I really like the term that came out in the readings divine order and when we think about the original analogy that was proposed to kind of understand the traditions to as a principle of unity we talked about the individual connected to all the other individuals in the group the groups connected to the other groups the regions connected to al the other regions that countries connected to all the others and it's like one body with different functions and yet there's a life force underneath that that anime anima the soul the life force animation that gives it a sense of direction and that's the higher power the God concept the spirit concept that organizing principle for divine order so one of the questions that came to me as I was doing the preparation and reviewing and reflecting on this work and commentaries on it it says do I control or do I make suggestions do I attempt to manipulate or am i trying to be helpful it's a rhetorical question but it's a question that confronts me and my style and my personality and you can tell whether you're actually one or the other by the looks on other people's faces right yeah exactly and the reactions that you get it's not because they're jerks it's highly likely it's because I was a jerk right the first nine steps give us peace with our past a sense of wholeness oneness the first nine traditions deliver us to a sense unity from the bondage of our poor relationships with others to a sense of divine order with and about all i came across a commentary which i have been tracking all along with each of the steps it was produced some time ago there's no date on it by a person named dennis f the comments the commentaries are quite good i've not taken time to quote from them because i've just felt they've supported most of what we've been talking about but this time i'm going to read a couple paragraphs because i think it's worthy of reading let us recap because it recaps these first nine traditions now let us our growth in carrying out the first nine traditions in all our relationships tradition one taught me not to be a loner i couldn't survive sober if i did tradition 2 taught me that sanity is seeing god as a loving god sanity is seen you as trustworthy and sanity is see myself as a trusted servant a new relationship with god a new relation ship with myself a new relationship with other people that's the model that we've used for the steps that's the model that we use in all spirituality i gave up my uh i gave up being hostile to groups i had to trust the group conscience to survive tradition three taught me that to get along in my life the only requirement i had to meet was a desire to stay sober i had to surrender all other demands on god and others to be happy Tradition four taught me to seek God's approval and to consult others about decisions affecting them. I gave up people-pleasing. Well, at least I have the intention of giving up people pleasing, huh? I mean, underneath everything is powerlessness. Can we really do these things? No, but we can in prayer and with some information and with Some Accountability. Tradition 5 introduced me to my primary purpose in life. Service to the sick and suffering alcoholic is my bond of love with humanity. The 6th tradition taught me to avoid detours from my primary purpose brought about by my pursuit of money, property, prestige. The 7th tradition talked me to be spiritually self-supporting instead with God and my financial needs would be taken care of the eighth tradition taught me that centered in god i could have the zeal of a dedicated amateur in carrying the message we talked about zeal the last time that fire that burns deep a passion that comes organically to us because of the transformation that's wrought, not by us, but to us also. And the ninth tradition assures me that once my ninth step amends have been made, I will be led to that profound place of peace I have always sought in my life, divine order. The ninth tradition not only contains the secret of divine order, but also contains the personal principle that will keep an alcoholic like me in divine order It is so simple. I give up control. Actually, I put a note in here. I give Up the Delusion of Control because we never have control. Never over ourselves or anybody else. I've quit using the word control mostly. I like the word manage. I attempt to manage my emotions. I attemptto manage my behavior, not control it. I stopped trying to organize God into my limited ideas of order. I hope you're finding this good summary and helpful. I'll talk about it again. I don't know where I found it. Things come to me, right? Suffering led me to make a decision to work a discipline program so my life would improve. and I looked up the word discipline it means to be a disciple to find a value and to follow it it doesn't mean getting whipped right I mean that's an image that you have with the discipline think of the this the sea ships of the 18th century they used a cat of nine tails to discipline the sailors all right that's not what we're talking about here there's one other comment here that I want to read well maybe not okay so this comes from and you could google it I haven't yet a Dennis F that's all I know mm-hmm yep It's about the preparing for the traditions. All right, so I may have some additional comments here. To live guided by intuition rather than fear-based rigidity and control. We find the flow and we go with the flow. See, that's that whole step concept also. But under the traditions, if we're looking at the body that's all connected and we're all diverse and all different, but we're also all connected underneath with this animating principle. That's the flow. That's life force. And it allows me then to be spontaneous, to accept my mistakes and live undefended and flexible. Suffering is a stimulus to find alternative behavior that reduces or avoids suffering. I looked up the word, I did a lot of dictionary work this weekend. I looked at the word discipline and it talks about an ordered way of life. It comes from the inside, not from the outside. I was a monk for seven years. I had the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. And I left after seven years because I was breaking those vows. That was supposed to get a laugh. it's yes we we anyway so it was only after i found the way of life that is revealed through doing the steps that there was an internal reorganization and that then the principles grew organically in me and then through me to my behavior they were no longer the traditional church that imposed its regulations or society that imposed his rules or people that exposed their expectations all of which I had dealt with defiantly there's one or two of you in this room just like that And yet, when I did the steps, there was a transformation inside way beyond my ability to manage and produce it that created this organic change where I had identified values and principles inside of me which then progressively over time I have been able to live by in the flow of the universe. Okay. So, please, what's your hand name? Katie. Hi, Katie. I heard it doesn't have a definition of discipline. I had a lot of trouble with that word. It's remembering what you love. Oh, you know, I love that. She said discipline is remembering what you love because it completely correlates with that sense of value. And I use that primarily in my discussions around meditation. Everybody thinks meditation is important. Everybody knows it's step 11. Everybody knows that all spiritual people meditate, and everybody wants to be spiritual, and very few people meditate. Well, they don't have time, don't you know? Well, yeah, because it's not a value. So I try to help people sort out from the internal parts what's the value of meditation. It might be biological, lack of stress. It might Be emotional, harmony and peace. Or it might be theological, a relationship with the spirit. And they're all valid reasons to meditate. And they all do work, absolutely. Just read the literature, research on meditation and mindfulness in any variety of practices. Biology improves, psychology improves, and your spiritual life improves. A sense of value, context, and meaning. Absolutely. But why don't people do it? Because they haven't internalized that as a value and believe it. And because they don't do that, they don' t experience it. Because once you see and learn and then think it might be applicable. It won't become a value until, in fact, you try it and then experience it and see it as a value. I can show you a picture of ice cream. I can describe ice cream I can eat it in front of you and demonstrate how delicious it is but you still won't know what ice cream tastes like until you taste it. then buy shares in Haagen-Dazs all right so let's take a look then at tradition 9 in language of the heart the comments commentary that bill made from the grapevine in August of 1948 on page 88 and by the way we have more of the supply of the language of the heart if you don't have one and you want one and even beyond this workshop I think it would be a value to you anybody have any highlights on page 88 please Michael and Michael setting the model here we will try to use the microphone that's It's not a requirement, it's a strong suggestion. Michael Alcoholic? Greenlights? Check. Yep. For one, I'm glad we have both conservatives and enthusiasts. They teach us much. The conservative will surely see to it that the AA movement never gets overly organized, but the promoter will continue to remind us of our terrific obligation to the newcomer and to those hundreds of thousands of alcoholics still waiting all over the world to hear of AA. I mean, he's talking about Bill and Bob there, isn't he? The conservative Bob, all right? The ultimate Midwestern, fundamental Christian white professional. That was Bob. Very conservative. And it's often said that if Bob was the only leader of AA, AA would never have come out of Akron. It would stay there. On the other hand, the other co-founder, Bill Wilson, who we hear was a stockbroker, it's really not true. He was a flim-flam salesman is what he was. He was an entrepreneur. He was as a stock manipulator is what he was and he was really good at this entrepreneurial stuff and if he had been the Lone Ranger guiding AA he would have franchised it. That's right. So it's the conservative versus the balancing. Go ahead, George. Hi, George Barrell, Alcoholic. And then it says we shall naturally take the firm and safe middle course. Yes. AA has always violently resisted the idea of any general organization. And also change. Change comes very slowly in AA, possibly as a result of this. In fact, it said that a knee-jerk reaction in AA takes three years. Yeah, it's a very slow, thoughtful, organic process because it's run by group conscience. And the true group conscience listens to even the single resistant vote and they will just listen and listen and until your eyes roll back and you agree to vote right. that's a joke come on yeah really so absolutely necessary for effective and plentiful 12-step work this taking the middle course and the operating principle any oh I like that the top it called the universal ideal the least possible organization once again that's like a principle and it came to me a reinforcement of some things that had come to me previously as i'm reflecting on my own personal life guiding principles is it the simplest solution and is it necessary is it The Simplest Solution and Is It Necessary all right so let's go over to page 89 are there highlights on that page anybody would like to comment on or question hey i'm john i'm an alcoholic hi john uh it's the last paragraph um so this is to improve and extend our vital lifelines of special service to better carry our aaa message to others to make ourselves a finer greater society and then he says and god willing so not god willing on the other stuff but god willing on this last one to assure alcoholics anonymous along life and perfect unity and i my reflection on that was that it acknowledges that that something better may come along but relief from alcoholism and living a sober life is what is the aim not necessarily the longevity of AA. Well, I mean, that was certainly Bill's attitude. I mean he loved AA and he thought it was wonderful, a method, but he knew it wasn't a panacea, all right? He was very clear that there will be other ways for people to get sober and to have a spiritual experience, all Right? But for right now, allright, this is the best we got. but as John pointed out, something may come along. It's not been my experience. Come up to the mic. Hi, Jennifer. Hi, Jenifer. The first full paragraph on 89, the first sentence, but by none of these special services has our spiritual or social activity, the great current of AA ever been really organized or professionalized? Yeah, the great current of AA. It goes back to that idea of the flow. Exactly. And as John pointed out, all with the purpose of carrying the message, is it actually carrying the massage or is it preparing some structure or person to carry the message? Ultimately it's directly carrying the message or indirectly supporting that work okay how about the twelve and twelve tradition nine is on page 172 there's about four pages any highlights on page 170 to Richard hi I'm Nicole Alan on today we are able to say with assurance that Alcoholics Anonymous a as a whole should never be organized at all yeah should never be organized it all in and listen to this no membership rules no discipline no authority, no regulations. How could you ever deal with people with those kind of operating principles? Carefully, right? Very carefully. Power to direct or govern is the essence of an organization everywhere but not AA. And if you've ever get some time to take a serious look at the 12 Concepts, you will absolutely see the brilliance of Bill Wilson. Genius, absolutely at work, where he lays out organizational structure of a non-profit spiritual organization. He gives job descriptions, methods of communication. It's way ahead of its time and absolutely brilliant. Not that the traditions and the steps aren't brilliant, but I see that there is a real practical brilliance in the 12 concepts. All right. Page 173. Anybody have any highlights or comments on that page? Nicole Allen on. We've got a trend we're building here. She hates the attention. yeah at the bottom of the page um you know the general service office uh when asked for advice had to coin a couple sentences which still go into half the letters they write of course you were at perfect liberty to handle this matter any way you please but the majority experience in a seems to does seem to suggest dot dot dot notice no direction no control, no mandate, no regulation. They say you're quite entitled to do anything you want. There will be consequences. And this is what the majority of our experience shows. But they don't tell you what to do because they know that there will be consequences. The Buddhists call that karma. Meaning over a long period of time your life will manifest the chain of your actions and the consequences from those actions it's not anything outside of you it's you and the decisions in the actions that you take that's why your life is what it is I mean that's the toughest part of doing the four-step isn't it taking a hundred percent responsibility for the mess me the mess Rob well now you gave it away why didn't just call me Nicole what I found kind of powerful on 173 groups have tried to expel members but the banished have come back to sit in the meeting place saying this is life for us you can't keep us out yeah so just stressing the importance it's life and death yeah just like you can't uh you know you can keep sick people out of your emergency room no matter how disruptive they are if they need emergency services i'm a member if i say i'm a member i mean that's huge that's right all right so let's go to page 174. george oh All right. Anybody 174? Unless each AA member follows to the best of his ability our suggested 12 steps to recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant. I mean, that's the motivation for spirituality. It's not virtue. At the beginning, it's not virtu. It's suffering. And then he goes on. his drunkenness and disillusion are not penalties inflicted by people in authority they result from his personal disobedience to spiritual principles just what i was saying about the karma stuff mr john hi i'm john i'm an alcoholic hey john turn the mic herb you have mentioned several times uh in this uh meeting and i think others um workshop uh that the two disciplines are alcohol or it could be food sex whatever yeah yeah whatever the addiction is yeah and then god yeah and so here in the uh second to the last paragraph it says great suffering alcohol sex food whatever uh and great love our aas disciplinarians we need no others yeah well While I've oft quoted Bill saying, in the context of his attempting to explain the reason for the traditions when people were accusing him of trying to create rules, regulations and too much bureaucracy, he said they're not rules and regulations. They're principles that are guiding our behavior based on our experience. He said there are only two disciplines in Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm not sure where that is, but I will find it. And he says one is God and the other is alcohol. You're either going for the one or you're going for the other. And this is basically a variation on that. I mean Bill wrote this. So that kind of contrast is deep embedded in him. And there's kind of like a poetic manifestation here where he says after the material that I read earlier, the same stern threat applies to the group itself. Unless there is approximate conformity to AA's twelve traditions, the group too can deteriorate and die. So we of AAs do obey spiritual principles. First, because we must. And ultimately, because мы love the kind of life that such obedience brings. That was the comment I made about establishing a value. And then the comment, great suffering and great love are a age disciplinarians we need no other great suffering addiction great love relationship with the spirit please i am not nicole i'm katie uh alcoholic hi um well the great suffering great love i definitely underlined but down below it says it's a difference between the spirit of vested authority and the spirit of service yeah terrific two concepts which are sometimes pulls apart and it's been interesting because i started working what seems to be an unorganized startup and i kept saying well well how they could do this and there's the idea of a life or death and the idea of spirit yes you know coming from the spirit of service is truly so different than even a non-profit trying in having a mission yeah because you still have people who want it their way well and they're earning their living that way right it's it's fascinating to see how a bunch of drunks did this all over the world it's impossible it will never work it is the difference between the spirit of vested authority and the spirit of service two concepts which are sometimes pulls apart it is in the spirit of service that we elect the aa's group informal rotating committee the inner group association for the area and the general service conferences of Alcoholics Anonymous for AA as a whole. Just as the aim of each AA member is personal sobriety, the aim of our services is to bring sobriete within the reach of all who want it. I hope you... I'm going to read that again, but go ahead. No, go ahead and read it. No, no, please. I was listening to people this weekend who kept saying, but they call the police on us when we go to the meeting. They're taking us to court. They're swearing out injunctions against us. And it was all about this kind of thing. And it's frustrating. I said you have the traditions that are being violated and so on and so forth. Speak a little louder, please. I would say things to them like X and Y and Z traditions are being violated here you need to have a group conscience. It's kind of difficult to have group conscience when, I mean I've seen videos of the police being called not to let somebody into the meeting. So it's kind frustrating for people to say what do you do when they keep being oppositional. You see both camps trying to come to some real rapprochement. But you know, after I said there's this tradition and that tradition, somebody else said, let's remember that the opinions expressed here were only those of the speaker. And I'm thinking how do you help these people who are being taken to court and having the police call on them if you don't say this far and no further? Sometimes you have to say to people. So you really do want to control and manage an AA meeting or whatever the kind of meeting it 12 step meeting. I don't go to those meetings. simply uh speaking to people who have a bunch of questions yeah oh yeah i see i see okay yeah but but when they have the same question over and over again i'm being i'm being expelled we're not being allowed to go we're being denied voice and vote you want to give them some kind of um why don't they find someplace else to go exactly okay for me looking at all this no matter how many traditions i say there's no unity here there's no rotation of service what it comes down to each time are you looking at your part here yeah are you willing to let go of the obsession to correct these people yeah and that's a hard thing to say to people who are angry that somebody well it's a hard to say who are right exactly well you've heard it i mean you've hurt it prosaically right around the rooms would you be rather be right or happy and and I think I may have mentioned it I heard a variation on that which I just love would you rather be write or helpful so much more takes the juice out of any type of argument right do you want to be helpful please yeah Dave sex-loving fantasy addict hey And in our fellowship, we've had some people that we've had to ban from meetings because they've been stalking other members. They're predators. Yes. Well, I think they're sick rather than predators. They just can't get beyond what's fantasy and what's real. I was thinking more of the behavior than, in fact, the motivation, but go ahead. Okay, yeah. That they had gotten totally obsessed over certain other members at the meeting and we're to the point where that member was getting ready to get a restraining order against that person, not only in the room. So you had to set some type of boundaries as a group? Yes. Yeah. Yep. And that's what you have to do with mental illness. That's right. Yeah. But in the same sense, people were bringing up the ninth tradition and saying, we can't do that. i heard that there was something i don't think that's the tradition the tradition is the best interest of the whole group and it's not in the best interests of the whole group if you allow a mentally ill person to be disruptive in the meeting or a drunk drunks are welcome to come to meetings you can drink in the meeting just don't disrupt the meeting it's okay if you throw up on your neighbor Just don't drink, I mean just don't disrupt the meeting. And in that discussion this letter to Irma came up and I guess that she was an AA, an early AA and had been what probably was 13th stepping people within those meetings and she was supposed to be banned and a letter was sent but never received or something like that? Don't know anything about it. Never heard the story. It's a great story. Okay, I'll see if I can find more information. Yeah, no, it's a good story. It's not a great history. I'm sure it's true, actually. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, yeah, please. Hi, Mitch. My concern is that you start with the assumption that those who are destructive or mentally ill or affluent on Trump sometimes they're just argumentative I can argue with you all night long, and you won't be able to conduct a meeting. And I'm either drunk or sick. By your standards. I don't want to speak academically. I'm 30 years sober I've never seen a problem in this area get involved with the meeting and become part of the group conscience or find another meeting those are this those are the opposites you don't suffer you become part of the solution or you walk away from the problem yeah hi my name is gene and i am an alcoholic i'm one of those people they tried to throw out of alcoholics anonymous yeah i know you It took me getting an attorney. Because the stuff that was coming around was not good, and I was standing up for other people. I was also standing up from myself. And I'm a little bit insane and I carry guns and I carried knives and I scared a lot of friggin' people. Fact! But when it came right down to it, when we got the board meeting and the steering committee meeting together and i had my attorney in there um first thing i was told to get into the damn traditions just to know your traditions because they can't expel you if there's too many meetings i can get they can get a personal restraining order against me and whoever shows at first gets to stay at them but it came right down to the brass tacks is that people actually allowed me to be me for the next few years and i got to start growing i got to start learning i became a little more less tolerant a little less violent a little more conformant to alcoholics anonymous but when people backed off and quit pushing buttons for me only then did things start to change and that change wasn't had nothing to do with them it had to do with me you want to stay here for just a minute because i have a couple questions then because i mean it's a that's a great example but i'm real curious as to what your perception is of what how did they handle it so that you could and could and wanted to come back and how did you begin to in fact crack open and change because it has to be both they were willing to set up a board meeting with all parties involved what basically what came down brass tacks what came down is i drug a man out of a meeting knocked the out of him and hospitalized him why uh but that's not really answering my question that's just given us drama so what what happened was is the board got together with the steering committee meeting they threw a private meeting they invited me along they invited his attorney and my attorney we sat down we had a powwow i made my amends to him because partially i was wrong i will admit that keep coming back partially i was wrong you know um and what happened was is at that time after the amends were made and he took his side of the room i took my side of the room we really didn't communicate a whole lot but i started going i started getting into workshops i started Going into book studies i started working with a sponsor at that time and this is after 19 years of in and out in these rooms so they showed some reasonable response to you correct that demonstrated some sincerity and then you were able to just relax just enough enough to begin to connect to some of the principles i actually quit carrying guns and that was a miracle in itself because i mean i was confronted by the same person i mean and this whole thing came down about around a rape that's what it was about yeah and so i was confronted by him without the gun one day and i just looked and i said god this has got to be god because i don't do this you know and from that moment on things started changing and that was in 1995. but but you hear the middle road there all right it wasn't a obstinate aa committee or group it was a group that really wanted to help and was willing to go out of their way and spend their time in a very unusual situation they've seen both sides of the road but you were able then to sort of have some yeah connection so that's that's a wonderful story and it just talks about this it's got to begin someplace yeah all right and one of the reasons i stick with that group and i'm still in that group today is i actually love this group it i mean if you could survive that group you can survive anywhere well and if they can survive you they can survive anybody all right that's great no wonderful any other comments on the 12 and 12 please justin just an alcoholic you know i go to a sunday meeting and um i love it because in the beginning of the meeting it's always chaotic you know and it never seems to be going right and i notice that when people start doing their commitments and they start going over the format and then people start using their you know their their passion in their heart instead of their their heads it calms down and and by the end of the meeting everything's okay you know and it's all what you put into it it's not what you know the craziness you bring to it thanks Justin it's in going I'm John I'm an alcoholic I just had to share the story there's a 12 and 12 study at the Marina Center 530 on Tuesdays I don't go there a lot but I just happen to go there today and the chapter that we were reading from the twelve and twelve was the ninth tradition and I just wanted to share that it seemed interesting to me that there I was in in an age disorganized about as much as it can be disorganised. It was the Marina Center, after all. And then knowing that I was going to be coming here for a very organized discussion about the night tradition. So because it was actually the 12 and 12, I thought I'd share it right now. But it was an insight, a layer of this study that there is no possible way I could get it any other way than to have the juxtaposition of the two events yeah yeah nice that's right that's great wonderful um hi richard hi anyway hi i'm nicole i am an alan on um so one of the coolest things i've ever seen is how alan on scurry like ants when a drunk is in the room and um and especially in an aca meeting an adult child of alcoholic meeting we had a guy who consistently showed up to that meeting drunk and for a while he was just fidgety in his chair then he started having outbursts and then he became confrontational and you could see the decline in his drinking well Well, we had to confront him. We had two things working against us. We have rules that we have to adhere to based on the place where our meeting is being held. And so we actually did have to tell him he wasn't allowed to come back. And you know, the one thing at an Al-Anon meeting, especially an adult child of meeting is, we're open but not if you're drunk. Well, or disruptive anyway. It's disruptive, but especially if there's drinking. You can't openly drink in an Al-Anon meeting from what I've learned so far in my program. Unless it's in your Coke can. So there are ways around that. But yeah, you're right. Right, right, right. I was going to say, Al-Anon is the perfect program. You can work the steps and drink. Yeah, that's right. That's right, that' s right, yeah. All right, so it talks throughout the material in Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age. It talks about obedience to necessary rules and regulations and it says we must obey certain principles or we die. It's interesting to note that the Latin word from which obey comes from is obidere, which means to listen. So we listen for guidance and respond. And that's called obedience. Because obedience has such a negative sort of implication that probably most of, at least the alcoholics in the room, would just shiver at the whole thought of obedience and conformity. But it really is about listening, obidere, to listen to the spirit that guides us and then to go along with what we hear. Then I've got some other material here Because there was a wonderful, you hear Dr. Bob quoted at his final talk. And you hear it quoted in meetings completely out of context. And it says, let's keep it simple. You've all heard that, I'm sure. All right? And that's the end of the phrase, right? Well, here's it in context. There are two or three things that flashed into my mind. This is Bob at his last talk at a convention. It might have been the 1950 conference. There are 2 or 3 things that flashed in to my mind on which it would be fitting to lay a little emphasis. One is the simplicity of our program. Let's not louse it up with Freudian complexes and things that are interesting to the scientific mind hear the context he's not saying keep it simple because it is complex he's saying don't louse it up with psychology or freudian concepts here or those that are interesting through the scientific mine perhaps some type of technology this was written in 1984 well before real technology developed but have very little to do with our actual AA work. Our 12 steps, when simmered down to the left, resolve themselves into the words love and service. That's where it comes from. Love and service, think step 11 and step 12. Love, a relationship with the mystery. Twelve, that compassion and altruistic helping. Love in service. We understand what love is and we understand what service is so let's bear these two things in mind well that's a big assumption do we really understand what love is and do we understand what service is probably takes us a lifetime to really understand that but i thought that was uh worth bringing to get the context of it he was talking about technology on the one hand and freudian psychology on the other hand oh yeah page 339 in pass it on yeah yeah the the literature is so rich with that kind of history and reminders that quite frankly I'm going to read at all before we start the new workshop in January so that I'm back up to speed on it so let's take a look at the Oh Illustrated the pamphlet illustrated and see what's on both of those pages anybody have highlights on either of the pages won't restrict you to one or the other on either the pages in the ninth tradition in the pamplet illustrated yes sir George Bell again alcoholic the first paragraph we need to distinguish sharply between spiritual simplicity and functional simplicity and if you actually look at the chart of the general service organization it's not simple it's kind of complicated where would i get that where would I get that that would be in the service manual the aa service oh i have the concepts of service i have that okay yeah um you know there are a lot of different committees and trustees and and board of directors and you You look at it and it appears to be quite complex, but that's the functional means by which AA enables the hand of AA to be there when anyone anywhere reaches out for help to make AA available or information about AA available widely. And that complexity as it says here is to organize ourselves to be able to carry the message how else do you do what how many tons was that right eight tons a year of literature they put out and that was in 1960 or something yeah and and spiritually it remains very simple yes we know the same spiritual principles well and bill said it about the step process he says it in his own story on page 14. simple but not easy a price has to be paid it meant the destruction of self-centeredness i must turn in all things to the father of light who presides over us all once again that underlying anima that underlying soul that underlying spirit of the body that unifies us nicole alanon hi nico i like this whole third paragraph it kind of made me laugh the a non-member familiar with modern business procedures might examine the aa practice of sponsorship and see it has a haphazard operation how about computerizing it then an aa behind an inner group desk might say so you want help first you need the right sponsor we have personality profiles of all our sponsors fed into our computer we'll match you up to the best one for you if you'll just fill out this question match.com i was just gonna say It's like being harmony, but for sponsorship. Where are you going? Come back. That would be an attempt to organize AA as such. Please, nobody get any ideas. I just, yeah, hilarious. We assume responsibility. We don't take authority. Huge difference. Spiritual simplicity it talks about. Katie, alcoholic, Al-Anon, everything. What I really like about this and I don't know if the words, they are suggestions, it's on the other page in the middle paragraph, they're offering suggestions based on experiences reported to groups, which is really nice and actually seeing it a lot in this tradition is that when I speak to a sponsee or group all I really am giving you is experience, worked or what didn't. It's up to you guys to make it hope or strength, in my opinion, because somebody's mistake is hope and maybe not strength. But all the way through our study, we've seen the disasters that came out of their experiences with organization or non-organization and everything. So it's fascinating to see that same principle. And there's still that's why we have the annual meeting. They're still talking about experience and refining and refinding and refigning the pamphlet a a tradition how it developed has material this may not be the most current uh edition this is from yesteryear page 32 to 34 has a section on will aa ever have a personal government and of course the answer is no sure let's see if it had shall we not do well if instead we can cling in some part to the brotherly ideas of the early Franciscans this was written oh my I don't know when 1947 so he was under the spiritual guidance of a Jesuit priest so he'd probably been exposed now to the whole Franciscan spirituality which he got in terms of the prayer of Saint Francis as an example of a meditation practice in step 11 and the 12 and 12 which he wrote in the late 40s and published in 1952 let all of us AAS whether we be trustees editors secretaries janitors or cooks or just members ever recall the unimportance of wealth and authority as compared with the vast importance of our brotherhood love and service I just wanted to note the map, the illustration on the pamphlet here there's a world map there and AA is worldwide and you certainly need organization for that to support all of the offices trying to set up in other countries a big book translated into 68 languages officially um you know you do need organization yeah yeah all right please oh stan wants us to he wants to dump his money in the basket all right is this it we got distracted from money because it's not about money but it is about to pay the rent so we're going to pass the basket you know the drill thank you george all right so now let's go to the assignments and i'll read a little bit write a paragraph about am i too organized define organize how is how organized in my life in aa at work personal relationships family and friends so we apply it to our personal lives did anybody does anybody want to either read what they wrote or summarize what they as a reflection on that answer to the fourth uh suggestion for reflection nicole allen on hi nico i'm so i had so much gratitude around this because it was a huge smack in the face about organization around self um man i my home is total chaos right now which is very unlike me but i'm trying to find acceptance and that's just the way it is right now so i thought that's easy no and then when i really started praying and looking at my life Yeah, my work is fine. I can take interruptions. That's not a problem. In group, I can let it go. That's pretty easy. But in my own life, I am so rigid and I realize it's based out of fear. I have this utter fear of gaining the 160 pounds that I've lost back, that I have created an entire system so rigid that it affects making friends, it affects dating, it affects every area of my life. That if they don't conform to my schedule, it doesn't happen. And I thought I was much more flexible. So, as long as you're in the ring, you get to dance. do you have a consistent meditation practice i yes i'm still new in the practice but i do consistently pray and meditate each day that will change that over time my sense of the rigidity has to come about in some sense to sort of help manage our behavior that was out of control i'm sure that's true but my experience with it is personal experience as i got connected to a consistent practice of meditation my image is the wind of the spirit comes in and rounds off the edges makes it softer makes it more spontaneous brings a sense of humor to it well great i'm getting the sense of humour back so come back in 20 years and show us well no seriously it doesn't happen over the weekend right right but it does happen sooner than later all right both Ken Wilber Dan Siegel and Jack Kornfeld from all three different traditions Jack Kornfield a Buddhist Dan Siegel is psychiatrist at UCLA Ken Wilbur a philosopher probably the philosopher of today in Colorado three different experiences have said that over a two-year period consistent meditation will elevate your consciousness about 20 to 40 percent yeah and they have measurements to show that in their respective fields since it's become more consistent and I mean like daily um that's what I mean by consistent right I'm at two minutes a day which I think is great don't judge it embrace it and I totally I totally do I went up to three minutes it was too much for me right now so I took it back I you know but it's like I had to let go of trying to be this Al-Anon superstar I don't even have two years of program yet you know and so it's it was really humbling to to take that step backwards good um and you know i appreciate hearing what you say about just wait for it because that's another thing is it's like i create this rigidity and this this i clamp down on myself so much that that it's like it makes it really difficult to accept god's will in any of that well you can't accept God's will when you're clamped down on your own. Right. Please. Mark. You can, up to the mic if you'd like. Nice and loud then. Yes? So it is tough, you know, once this happened now, today or yesterday, right? And I don't think that's going to happen overnight. There is definitely a need for that help. Yeah. You're talking to a room that is an expert in immediate gratification. Yeah, yes. Anathema is delayed gratification, anathema. Exactly. So to organize, look it up in the dictionary, it means to put into order. And when you think of the word organ, go back to what we talked about in the opening comments about the body. My body is fully organized. All the organs are in their right place doing their right functionality. That's what organize means. My motto, of course it drives people around me a little nuts sometimes, is everything has its place and everything in its place. And I'm meticulous about that, all right? Not so much the other people in my life, but love and tolerance is our code, right? How do you what? How do I do pretty well most of the time? When in doubt, meditate. All right, question number five. how does my approach to organizing affect my intuition and open-mindedness well we were kind of talking about that a little bit but does anybody have any additional reflections on that um something that came up for me when i was thinking about this is uh it's changed over the years, that I'm both more flexible and creative. When my needs are fulfilled pretty well, I recognize that I can now be creative. I can give back by doing something more with what I'm doing. But if things are... If I don't take things too seriously and don't worry about things, that's one thing. If you pray, don't you worry, don'y pray, it frees me up for new thinking. And so having some things taken care of easily in practice leaves that open. It's been fun to see that, oh, well, I have time. This is, you know, now I'm not sure, but it came to mind as you were talking the model that Maslow, the psychologist used in terms of the triangle and he talks about the hierarchy of needs. And you can't meditate if you're hungry, or you need water, or you need to urinate, all right? I mean, so he starts with the biology, then he goes to the psychology, then he goes to the sociology, then he goes to the emotions, then he goes to something else, and finally, at the very top, he talks about self-actualization, which is the spiritual development of the human being. But after everything else is taken care of. That's why those steps are in such wonderful order, and I believe it's why we study the steps and experience the steps first for transformation, then we study the traditions for manifestation of the transformation, and then we study the concepts for further development. And it's all about coming up to that top level of self-actualization so thank you for that so in terms of the how does my approach to organizing affect my intuition and open-mindedness I put I probably come a lot from my head much more than I do from my heart although I'm much better than I used to be I need to listen to and evaluate and respond to my intuition more readily that is to release managing and to release the control or any type of rigidity that would come around and I know that it's part of that what I described in a very positive statement everything has this place everything in his place that can be somewhat outright neurotic all right I'll walk by a book that I play someplace and somebody has just moved it like that and sometimes I'll put it back in place other times I'll just go yes is real strain not to do but I know that I'm dealing with my own compulsions in that area yeah consider whether I am a trusted and experienced servant of the whole do I endeavor to inculcate universal respect There's the word again for all members within all our groups What's your consideration on that anybody have a consideration reflection on that question about universal respect? Sit again Talks about human race Universal respect. Yep one of my current projects is to try to develop some language that is more universal than the language that you hear that comes sometimes from organized religion or certainly even from traditional AA or 12-step I was at a meeting this last weekend it was a conference but can you imagine now this is the first international AA conference of atheists agnostics and freethinkers I had to go I had to go how do these people do it what's their language what's the methodology what how you know how do they you know and I went for about five hours on Thursday I went four about three hours on Friday and I went on Saturday and I stayed 15 minutes and I went home now I don't know whether you just got the progression but I've never seen so many angry people in all my life there were 200 people there and whoo you could just feel it it was palpable I don t remember whether it was Alan on for no there's a a no no it was strictly a a and and there were some people that really had the love and tolerance you could hear it when they spoke you could hear their body language you could watch but the majority of them were just so filled with anger about the big book and the steps and spirituality and God and I go like why are you so upset I mean you know but where I started with is see these These are people that have a prejudice or a resistance to some vocabulary because of some experience in their life. How do you reach them? My goal is to be more effective in the outreach. How do we reach them using the word universal rather than spiritual principles use the word universal principles Tom could you hear that better than spiritual principles I don't know yeah see but we'll tell what everything with love is good but it takes too long much better a bullwhip I'm joking our respective 12 step fellowships help their members maintain their personal recovery and encourage them to offer to share their recovery experience freely with others who may have a similar problem this we owe to our fellowships future to place our common welfare first to keep our fellowship United for on unity depends our lives and the lives of those to come when anyone anywhere reaches out for help we want the hand of our fellowship always to be there and for that we are responsible please join me in a prayer of st. Francis Lord make me a channel of thy peace that where there is hatred I may bring love that where there is wrong I may the spirit of forgiveness that where there is discord I may bringing harmony that where there is error I may being truth that where Where there is doubt, I may bring faith. That where there is despair, I may bring hope. That where there are shadows, I may bring light. That where there is sadness, I may bring joy. Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted, to understand than to be understood, to love than to be loved. For it is by self-forgetting that one finds. It is by forgiving that one is forgiven. It It is by dying that one awakens to eternal life. Amen. See you here next week. Thank you.