Tradition Three and Unity – Traditions Workshop – Part 3 of 10 – Local AA Speakers

Lack of power is our dilemma. There we go. Good evening, my name is Herb and I already said that. Welcome to our 12-step tradition workshop. Oh, shallow group tonight. Please join me in the prayer for an open mind. God, please set aside everything that I think I know about myself, my brokenness, the 12 traditions in you, for an opened mind and a new experience with myself, my brokenness the twelve traditions and especially you this is the forward to the pamphlet a a tradition how it developed written by Bill Wilson in 1955 how shall we a a's best preserve our unity when an alcoholic applies the 12 steps of our recovery program to his personal life his disintegration stops and his unification begins the power which now holds him together in one piece overcomes those forces which had rent him apart exactly the same principle applies to each a group and to alcoholics anonymous as a whole so long as the ties which bind us together prove far stronger than those forces which would divide us if they could all will be well we shall be secure as a movement. Our essential unity will remain a certainty. May we never forget that without permanent unity, we can offer little lasting relief to those scores of thousands yet to join us in their quest for freedom. It is the purpose of this workshop to review and discuss each of the 12 traditions so we may better understand and apply them to our fellowship and to our personal lives. Please join me in a few minutes of meditation on that purpose. Please join us in the serenity prayer. God, grant me the serENITY to accept the things I cannot change, the COURAGE to change the things that I can't, and the WISDOM to know the difference. We are here to talk about our second legacy, UNITY, and to review the Twelve Traditions. Crosstalk is allowed in a loving and supportive manner to be informed and helpful are our only goals. There were a couple handouts today which we'll talk about later on, and that's it. All right. I like to kind of warm us up with a review of some material from comparing the steps and the traditions to give us some sense of that. And I handed out a couple things which will also give you the sense of principles and some other items for each of the traditions. tonight I handed out although those of you who have been exposed to my work in the past already have it probably a list of the principles that are relevant to each of the steps so that now you I think have a full package of principles for the steps and principles for the traditions each individual is a a spiritual entity with a spiritual malady, a cancer of the soul that leads to disintegration. The steps are a path to God for personal integration. Similarly, each group is a spiritual Entity subject to group spiritual malody, self-will one riot for the group or disunification. The traditions are the groups path to the will of God. In the same way that the steps are the individual's path to the will of God, and a sense of unity and harmony. Unity for the steps within the individual, unity with the traditions within the group and amongst the groups. The steps are acts contrary to the individual self-will, the traditions are acts contrary to group's self- will, especially in the group conscience. Okay. So I'm sort of getting the hang of how to do the workshop on a public, large level. And we'll start with looking at the questions that one page which is a worksheet that shows the short and the long form of the traditions. The short form of Tradition 3 is the only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop. The big book has a line in, I think one of the prefaces, that says the only requirement for AA membership is an honest desire to stop drinking. But when they were formulating the traditions, they dropped the word honest because Bill said no newcomer could be honest about anything. The long form, our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought AA membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an AA group. Provided that as a group they have no other affiliation. See, we don't have any rules in Alcoholics Anonymous. And I don't know about the other fellowships, but I'm assuming if you have traditions that they pretty much follow the same kind of spirit. There are no rules. You don't have to be sanctioned by central office in your area or by general service office in New York. If you gather two or three people together for sobriety, you can call yourself an AA group, provided that you don't have any other affiliation. So that's what we're going to be looking at tonight. And of course, that worksheet has three questions which will keep you engaged with the discussion that we will have and that is what did i hear what does it mean and what are the implications for my life we do have a complete supply now i believe uh plenty for everybody of the language of the heart so after the meeting if you don't have it you're certainly welcome now to get it unless you found a resource to be able to download it and that might be good although it's always quite frankly good to have the source documents from my standpoint you may want to have this anyway and read it uh the balance of it on your own it's um it's wonderful information from bill wilson um segmented in the various periods of the development of AA and we're going to be looking at tradition three page 79 and so I'm assuming that you have it that you've read it that you've highlighted it so we're not going to read it here but we are going to look at the highlights on page 79 we do have a microphone I'm assuming it's on so you're welcome to do that I don't make any requirements we don't have any rules here either but I do suggest that you use the microphone so that everybody can clearly hear whatever your comments are about the highlights on page 79 anybody have highlight on 79 that they would like to talk about please Michael and he's going to model it right out of the chute here there we go in short Alcoholics Anonymous has no membership rule I'm And I'm skipping ahead. We do not wish to erect the slightest barrier between ourselves and the fellow alcoholic who still suffers. Yeah, that's really the point. No barriers at all, no rules, alright? That's the spirit of this tradition here. Anybody else have any highlights on that page, please? You want to announce your name, it's fine, and if you don't, by the way we are recording So if you don't want to be recorded, don't talk. And if you do want to be recorded but you don' t want your name, don' t give your name. It's pretty straightforward. All right? Thank you. My name is Katie. I am an alcoholic. Hi, Katie. Thank you I like the word, if he is anything, a sick alcoholic is a rebellious nonconformist. Yeah. Which reminds me of the rebellion dogs are every step in the big book, which I think is a great name for a rock band, Rebellion Dogs. But it also in the long run made me recognize that if I don't ask and everything is open to receive but it was so hard for me to ask so removing no barriers faced me with the idea that I had to be open to recieve which is wonderful. Thank you. Any other highlights on that page? I love one we must enter the dark cave where the alcoholic is all right not only does it tell us about the condition of the alcoholic in the darkness of the cave and uh but it also indicates the spirit of outreach it literally is we go where they are we enter their dark cave We bring the light of our experience into that darkness. I think it's all there in that poetic piece. Rob? I'm Rob. I'm a compulsive over-eater. Hi. You know, there are some things that came up with these readings that were confusing to me and I'll point out one because I'm not sure of the implication but in the I guess the last long paragraph in the middle of the paragraph, it says one can think of no AA member who would like to see the formation of dry groups or wet groups or communist groups, et cetera. And this leads me to think well how does the current fellowship where there are many, many, many special interest themed groups, how does that balance against the original concept of the traditions? I really wonder what people think about that. Yeah, yeah. It's a real wonderful challenge actually. We have men's groups and women's groups. At the very least we have doctors' groups, we have lawyers' groups. We have pilots' groups . We have gay groups. All right? And that's Rob's point exactly here. All right? Anybody want to address that in terms of their experience with it or any other highlights on that page. Please. I'm still Katie, I'm an alcoholic. Well the only, I think I read this some place but of course I'm making it up. Since if it's a gay group or a doctor's group or any of those things they're not officially affiliated with another organization affiliated with another organization but they invite members I think I remember someplace that it's in a sense of inviting and attraction and openness rather than you can only come if you were gay or you know if your doctor which I don't believe I've ever seen have you ever tried to walk into a men's tag meeting I actually was at the beach once I saw the 12 and 12 and I was desperate for a meeting and I sat next to it and afterwards these guys said well it was a men's meeting but we let you stay and I would see no that's a healthy meeting that's the healthy meeting when the spirit of their traditions was very much embraced there please I'm Richard alcoholic it says in Alcoholics Anonymous there are no musts and then there's like over a hundred in the big book here's a couple I must turn all things to the father who presides over us all yeah yeah let's have this thing there's a ton of them there's over 100 but there are no must in the sense of rules and regulations but there's strong encouragement implied in the context of those musts yes yes it is It's strongly recommended you put your parachute on before jumping, right, please. Less alcoholic. Less? To my experience with the special interest groups or meetings, I think it's addressed at the bottom of the pamphlet that you gave us where they talk about it. My experience was I first went to a 12-step meeting but immediately went to what's known as the other bar, the lawyer's group and at the time, as you say, most alcoholics don't know how to be honest, I didn't know that drugs and alcohol was going to be my only problem. I was really more concerned about trying to get into what would be my chosen profession. And so that was a link where sobriety was the foundation but we had in that particular instance it happened to be people trying to pass the bar, people that were disbarred, people that judges or whatever and doing it. So the purpose was to, it was just a commonality of people trying to follow the 12 steps. And never in that or any, even men's meetings or any other special interest meetings I've gone to have they ever said it was a substitute for general AA meetings. Right. Right. Well, I couldn't relate to just being with a bunch of drunks or a bunch of coke heads only or whatever my issues were which were multitude at the time. I needed, you know, I was looking as a solution hopefully when I stopped doing it to be able to relate to that profession. Yeah. And it was a good stepping stone until I was more willing to, you know, delve into the task steps. Yeah. I think personally my experience is that men are really well served by going to at least one men's STAG meeting a week as part of if they're going to multiple meetings. same with women going to women's stag meetings because there's there's a camaraderie and there's an identification and there is a safety that all of the stuff that just intuitively you know that is the benefit of it but i i don't i recommend that people don't make it an exclusive diet of stagg meetings or for doctors for instance it's incredibly important for them to be in a room where they can really identify at the deepest level and have some confidence about confidentiality just by the nature of their professions but again and i sponsor a couple doctors i suggest that they have a variety of meetings whether they share or not in those other meetings is up to them but that they need to be part of the whole rather than an exclusive group so I think that's kind of the spirit of it my home group had a woman come to it and she walked in like a deer in headlights when she walks in and we didn't know it but she'd never been to a meeting and this is like 15 guys and we just scanned the room and I could just read the group conscience and and I said you're welcome to sit down all right everybody was really very much okay with that and she sat down she didn't say anything and then she left right afterwards but there there was that inclusivity that if you come you're welcome but it's not the sort of the open invitation kind of thing on the other hand another group that I go to a men's tag meeting and they have a committee of three people who are on alert for somebody not necessarily a woman but let's say somebody walks in and they're a drug addict and they refuse to say I'm an alcoholic or I'm having a drinking problem or I have a desire to not drink those are the three formulas right that'll keep you in an AA meeting that's closed and they then would politely get up and escort them out but sit with them in the parking lot until the meeting is over having a meeting outside the meeting you see we're prepared to do that last night we had this discussion and one woman had been in a different area and she got literally shouted out of the room by the men which was obviously not the spirit of AA or the traditions so it came to the our discussion last night that maybe you want to bring to your group conscience well what do we do if there's somebody here that doesn't actually belong here or there's somebody here who is disruptive it's been known that actually a drinking alcoholic may want into an AA meeting and you know shock of all shocks these days and a lot of meetings are really uncomfortable with that and if they become restless and irritable and discontent they're even more uncomfortable with how to deal with it so you it would be behoove us to be prepared to be able to deal that in some way of welcome and hospitality hi my name is Greg and I'm a lot of things one of the instances well in a gay gays in Los Angeles used to have their own completely separate service structure I'm not gay but and they would they were at their meetings would have to identify as my name is such and such i'm a gay alcoholic they had to say gay alcoholic and and it took a lot for them to get incorporated into the service structure i'm thinking speaking specifically to the central office of los angeles of alcoholics anonymous you know they got incorporated into into there and now there's a little g that signifies that it's a gay meeting you know and uh um and there were when i was at central office there was also discussion about the there are these yoga meetings these 12-step yoga meetings and there was a disc there was debate about whether or not they should are they are they aa are they not a is it considered meditation well you know in and and uh i was i was one of the ones for incorporating them into the directory and and i lost i was in the minority but uh um So it's, whatever, it's just... Well, I guess it would depend on, and I don't want to have that debate, but it would depending on their primary purpose, what their intention is and what their affiliation is. If their intention were a meditation group that were alcoholics, that may not be an Alcoholics Anonymous group. That may be a group of meditators who just happen to be alcoholic. Same with like yoga. So, I mean, there would be all kind of variations on the theme here, but you can see this is not an uncomplicated issue, especially in a city like Los Angeles, which is very complicated just an alcoholic hi Justin to get back to the closed meeting yes I've been to meetings before and they ask they go around the room and everybody says their name they say they're an alcoholic yeah and sometimes there's people in the room who don't even know they're alcoholic that is correct and they're visiting or some a friend brings them yes and uh on a few occasions i've seen the people very mean to that person if they don't raise their hand and call themselves an alcoholic yeah and they ask to leave but i've never seen any i've ever seen it done nicely oh well see that's an untrained meeting because if it's a closed meeting people who aren't alcoholic don't belong there and a comment they don't belong there if you're a visitor or a student or a doctor doing your term paper if it's a closed meeting you don't belong there go to an open meeting all right now even in open meetings anybody can come to an Open Meeting but most of the cultures of the Open Meeting are that only alcoholics can share. But I'm aware of several meetings where the meeting culture has said anybody who's there in an open meeting can share, all right? That's the group conscience and I totally respect that. I don't agree with it but I totally respect their group conscience to have it that way. I just, I was the last one to know that I was an alcoholic. Well, likewise. I walked into the meeting saying I'm exploring being an alcoholic. But at least that raises the question. There are people who are there and they don't know the vocabulary and the not so subtleties of it. Or the rules. Well, there's no rules. There's just traditions. Now, the group itself may feel that they have rules, Of course. We're human beings, right? And we'll make a religion out of anything. Nicole Al-Anon. Nicole. My very first AA meeting as an Al-A-Non, nobody raised their hand to share. And so what I've found to be more common in AA from the leader versus Al-Al-Anons is finger pointing and picking people to share Well, I was the first person they pointed to. I didn't know what to do at that point and I shared and I was like, well, I'm Al-Anon and I don't really know what I'm... And they let me do it. And now that was a very warm and kind welcome. And so I don' t know if it was an open meeting or a closed meeting but I feel like there's a lot of room for mistakes and for that kind of thing to happen. I was just lucky but well I think the bottom line of this discussion is be prepared in your meeting to handle these kind of variations with a helpful attitude not a hostile attitude that hostility comes from fear and the frustration and the lack and the embarrassment of not knowing what to do so you may as well be angry and scare them out of them right exactly all right Let's go to page 80. Are there any highlights on page 80 that you would like to talk about? All right, they have no other affiliation all right Meaning that you don't name the group after UX borax company, you know big or you know it'd be silly about that but it's really an important point and it's not a subtle point all right that we are self-enclosed please George George Braille alcoholic there are some groups which for some meetings which are a slash Alan on meetings where they have both and those are not allowed to be called a a meeting so that's because they're not a a meetings yeah but I mean their fellowship meetings. Like this. This is not an AA meeting, and yet you come to my step workshop. It's some of the best AA you'll ever... Well, I'm modest about it. All right. Hopelessly compromised and divided if we have these other affiliations. We need the straight AA activities. We think that AA should offer its experience to the whole world for whatever use can be made but not its name. That's the purpose here, that's the point. We should always be inclusive, never exclusive. Offering all we have to all save our title. You know Bill is very consistent with that when he wrote the big book in 1939. That first paragraph in the first printing of the preface says says our way of living may have its advantages for all he had that wonderful intuition that this was a formula for human nature it wasn't just a remedy for alcoholics that in fact it was a spiritual solution to a spiritual malady which is the human malady selfishness and self-centeredness self will run riot unity thus is preserved keep in mind that that's the the flag under which the traditions are flying and that is unity every tradition is is written what do you got wordsmith to protect the unity of the group and therefore the fellowship so that we have maintained our integrity okay so please cool microphone Nicole Allen on Nicole so is that white bill early on he helped I don't know if He helped, so I don't really have the history down, but I've heard that he went with N.A. and gave them his blessings. N.E.? N.I., yeah. Oh, I don' know. Not that he Went there himself, but he offered his blessings for N.N. to start. When does N.H. start? What year? Anybody know? 49. When? No, not that early. It's relatively recent, and it started here in L.A., so I know it. They wouldn't license them the steps, so they stole them and wrote their own big book. Yeah. After that, AA wised up and licensed the step to anyone who wanted it. Yeah. AA doesn't license anybody, by the way. No. Okay. Yeah, so I really don't know the history of NA. Yeah. I'm sorry. I was actually more asking from the AA perspective. I don't Know the History of NA, and you asked about Bill's involvement with NA. I don' t know. It's in 1953. all right so tradition 3 on the 12 and 12 page 139 do we have any highlights on that on on page 13 9 tradition 3 now I'm assuming you all read these and highlight them and maybe there's nothing of interest on that page for you or maybe you're just shy and that either is just fine but Richards neither of those but he is slow there's George go ahead George I quick when George Bell alcoholic you know it said the second paragraph first line to establish this principle of membership took years of a harrowing experience yeah yeah see these traditions came from the letters that came to the central office that Bill and his crew were answering about the various things one of the things we handed out was a laughable document it was the application to become a member of AA you know it's kind of like 1947 And look at the date, just before the traditions were published. Please, George. Richard. Richard Alkoholic. At the end of the second paragraph. Which of us may be the next? Which of Us May Be the Next. And he's got this wonderful poetic image. We are flickering candles in a windstorm. Listen to the fragility of that. We, in this room, flickering candles in a windstorm. Which of us is next? And it says at the top there, you're a member if you say so. Hello, this is up to the individual. You are a member. If you say, so think about the implications of that concerning your own sobriety date. Your sponsor doesn't tell you what your sobriete date is. You make your own determination. Now, you may want to have a conversation with your sponsor or other people if there's been some kind of an issue that's developed around it. But in the final analysis, it's about you and prayer and God and coming to grips with your own decision about that. Nobody else gets to say that to you. All right, let's flip the page. Oh, please, Sarah. I'm Sarah, food addict. Hi, Sarah? And on the first page there, we just want to be sure that you get the same great chance for sobriety that we've had. That's it. That's all right. That's what I said. See, we want to being helpful, and we want the people who are suffering like we suffered to have this organization available. that's why the traditions are here to protect the group and the organization against the individual egos and the group egos i mean we could for as much as we're bonded here and most of us know each other we've been in meetings before together we've Been in the step meeting before maybe or other and we've certainly been here now this is our third meeting on the traditions if we put ourselves in a circle and throughout a question that we wanted to resolve, can you imagine the chaos that we would have in terms of the various opinions and experiences that we have? I mean, and we like one another and we have spiritual principles. Yeah. What about those less blessed or graced? Sir. Yeah, I was kind of shocked. I hadn't read this in many years, but just the fear that they had, Like, which of us would be next? They're going to be struck drunk. They didn't know how it worked. They really didn't. I had that the first six months. And then from 1981 until now, no. I have not had that thought of, oh my God, it's going to happen. So that was interesting to read. Well, there was a tremendous amount of fear because they really didn'T know how It worked. In fact, that was the chapter that Bill struggled with, trying to figure out how It did work. And in meditation, of course, asking himself that question, he came up with the list of the 12 steps. Hi. Clayton, alcoholic. I just wondered if y'all could give us some examples of how you apply the third tradition to friends and family? Yeah. Because I've been struggling with that a little bit. Could I kind of open that up? And one of the things I think is the richness of the traditions and one of the primary reasons that I'm doing the workshop for on the traditions is to apply the principles of the Traditions to our personal relationships with our significant other, with our family, with our work, with our environment and community. Absolutely. We do have some questions toward the end and I'm going to try to get to those more quickly than we have in the past. But if anybody has anything they want to say in answer to that right now, I'd be happy to hear from you about applying this third tradition directly to your family or significant relationship. He skates up. Jason alcoholic. Jason my family and my most of my friends are pretty religious and so the way I doing this work on tradition three has been very enlightening but it's helped me because like some of them I'm like how do you even say you know God you know or even attempt to they're so arrogant manipulative but I mean aren't all you know and I'm going okay well I guess if it's a grace thing they've got if this is like a real grace thing and this is a real spiritual journey they've got every right and who am i and and then also has helped me with this tradition is um is when he said there the twelve and twelve isn't fear the basis of all our intolerance and I was going oh this is this is where they're getting all their legalism from you know all their little doctrines and rules and to-do list and all this stuff and i'm like it's just fierce seeing that it's helping me have more compassion towards them and just being more tolerant myself of them so anyway yeah love intolerance is our code is the sort of the theme of the 10th step hi kim alanon hi so i'm going to jump ahead but but I had an experience today that I wanted to share, which was the line, who dared to be judged during execution of his own sick brother? So in relationship to my work where my ego comes up a lot, I had a situation today where I looked at step three and, you know, I'm a little more willing to turn things over to God. So that's my part because I know I have choices. So, I went into a meeting today where I had to bring up something that a coworker wasn't executing. And so, I thought about this tradition three because I thought, well, where are we all inclusive? We're all inclusive in the aspect for me that we're trying to get this same job done. My step is this, his step is and whatnot, but there's a bump in the road and his step wasn't getting done. So, you know, trying not to judge my brother and trying to come from the unified inclusive aspect of we are a whole as a part of this department. So that said what I practiced was being patient and tolerant with this person, accepting my powerlessness and knowing that I'm not helpless so I can bring up what my concern is in a kind, patient, tolerant way and also being willing to let go of the results but knowing that if I say what I mean and mean what I say and that if i allow things to unfold for the greater good this is not my ego anymore But if I sit back and don't say anything, I'm going to resent and be bitter. So I have to find a way to keep that balance of I see myself in step three. I see I see my self. I have go to God. In the tradition, I have recognize that I'm a part of this whole, and I have a voice, but I'm still powerless over it. So that's how I worked it today from a work standpoint to keep my life manageable. Yes, and just to clarify something or expand on it actually because you used the word integrity, you see you're a cell in the body that's attempting to be a healthy cell for the benefit of the body. And it might be that you need to confront the other cell and hurt their feelings, and be disliked because it's in the best interest of the entire organ. Integrity then is supporting the unity. Your integrity is a benefit to the integrity of the whole, and by your... You may or may not be correct, and you may make a mistake, but at least your intention and your thought processes were correct. Yeah, I think that was it. I think you just said it. My intention was clearer because my motivation was like, okay, if I sit back, I know I'm going to resent this and be bitter, but if I can speak up and say it in a kind way, yes, and that strength of like, oh God, what are they going to think? But trying to position that. The motivation, I really find that I'm taking the motivations in the traditions, too. Like, what's the motivation on a group level? That's really big for me right now. Yeah, motivation. What moves us? Movere, the Latin, motivation? I'm Rob Codependent, and just very briefly, I just wanted to lift up the third tradition in CODA is the only requirement for membership in COTA is a desire for healthy and loving relationships. And so in CODA, there's not really a split between at least this tradition and trying to live out what we're doing and the life around us as well as in the rooms. So it's a great tradition. It's about unity. It's about the relationship and the health of the person and the help of the whole. Excellent, thank you. Please. Hi, Bonnie, alcoholic. Bonnie? I'm actually glad that we're studying this. I actually learned a little bit about myself when I was reading this on paper. I hope so. I hope you heard that. I'm so renewed by doing this. It's been 15 years since I've done any work in the traditions, and it's really giving me some new fire. Yeah. Well, I'm the one that goes to closed meetings because I'm an alcoholic, but I think it's important for me to be able to connect with people who are going through the same thing as I am, and I think that's a great way Well, I'm the one that goes to closed meetings because I'm an alcoholic. I'm not an alcoholic and anything. So I go to closed readings of Alcoholics Anonymous to relate to other alcoholics. And what I'm finding are there are a lot of those that have an anda attached to it or they don't even identify as an anda. They just say I'm a addict. And I'm The One in the Meeting who says, do you have a desire to not drink? And I have been confronted by others in the meeting that are too dogmatic about the traditions. But they're important to me because I don't relate to somebody that's a cocaine or a meth head. Not that I haven't done those things, but that was not my issue. And what I found in here is that maybe I'm a bit intolerant that I had to revisit and re-look at who I was and how I was approaching them. Was I being aggressive versus loving in my approach? Because I don't want to see a suffering anybody go back out and hurt themselves when I was so busy in fear, protecting what I believe is to be mine. So it was interesting reading this so that I have a different approach or at least a different look at the way I actually try to work with them. Fear will create rigidity, and love will create some fluidity, right? And it's obviously, if we can keep the word from the 12th step, that single code word, how can I help? In mind when in fact we're talking. Is it helpful to be dogmatic and rigid about the enforcement of the spirit of the traditions? Probably not. I'm Rob. Rob. um a few highlights if i may again on page please 140 or actually it's the bottom of 139 the lesson everyone everybody was scared witless at something or somebody would capsize the boat and dump us all absolutely into the drink yeah i love the phrasing first of all who knew the original phrase was scared wit-less yeah yeah but i like the way he says into the drink both figurative and yeah yeah right right right um on the other hand i i again i was i guess it was hard for me to put myself back into the context of you know being an alcoholic in the late 1930s and a brand new member of aa and i wasn't i couldn't really get in touch with with the fear what what did they really mean how would it happen how would the wrong person capsize the boat and he goes on in 140 there's similar phrases we were resolved to admit nobody but that class of people we termed pure alcoholics and i think they mean only alcoholic not not with other problems although certainly not it's come up in more recent years i know there are people who are very concerned about pure alcoholics coming meaning people who are truly powerless who have you know the allergy and the obsession not quote unquote hard drinkers i would say real alcoholics versus problem drinkers right that's what the big book uses right that is not what bill is talking no i don't think so he is talking about people who are beggars and tramps and asylum inmates and prisoners and queers and playing crackpots and fallen women okay yeah well that's right i'm reading from the book or i didn't just make that up so when they say you know any others would surely destroy us besides if we took in those odd ones what would decent people say about us i mean the real the real thing what i got from that which they do which he does say a couple of pages later it really was about reputation it was absolutely about looking bad yeah because they were trying to get this thing going they knew it had some traction and they didn't want anything to ruin it george yeah i like that phrase about the beggars tramps crackpots fallen women that's the marina center that's my favorite that's my favorite meeting place and actually that is that is actually this tradition in action because we have our share of schizophrenics that come in regularly yeah we've had to get restraining orders against people who were too aggressive sure there's one guy who is a regular member of the noon meeting and he's off his meds shall we say and regularly he creates some kind of disruption he gets irate and you know stalks out of the meeting at one point somebody almost came to blows with him of course over something another spiritual giant and then he comes back and apologizes and you know sits down and takes his place yeah um we have to be a very tolerant group there we have practice at it that's right that's you know yeah please i'm dan over-eater, debtor, et cetera. For me, I'm really helped by this with my biological family because I sort of don't choose them. But everything that exists in the group that when they talk about outside the program like those misfits or schizophrenics, They all exist in my biological family and my work family and all the way out. And so it really helps me because then I'm more open about my own family, because I may have worried about friends, people marrying in and out, all kinds of things. But when I include them all, my life works a whole lot better. yeah yeah exactly good thank you please oh we're going to pass the basket you know the drill we're a little light in attendance and we we made rent last time but don't relax five dollars a person if you can afford it and if not what you can't afford or and don't worry about it if you cant thank you uh tom tom alcoholic hey tom it's uh my impression also although he uses uh what we kind of snicker at in the language that he used in the 12 and 12 when he published it but i think also uh and i'm always curious how we get so wrapped up in the attic versus alcoholic you that's typically hear that in meetings but i think he was also talking about transvestites gays blacks chinese mexicans people oh my god Oh, my God. I really believe that that's what Bill was talking about. Well, actually he was, yeah. That's right. Well, he was talking alcoholics and see, he says even Dr. Now this isn't part of the assignment but there's a lot of rich material in some of the other source documents and Dr. Bob Bob had expressed uneasiness about admitting women AA membership when they first appeared. Because the men were uncomfortable with it. But not only were the men uncomfortable, the wives of the men were uncomfortable because these were alcoholic women and you know what kind of people they are, fallen women. And so the wives were very, very seriously concerned to the point that at first they didn't allow women to come to the AA meetings. They gave them to the wives to deal with. Oh yeah, it was only, see and the big book was published in April of 1939. The title page says the story of 100 men who have recovered from alcoholism. There were no women in 1939 April, Four and a half years the program had been around, there were no women. The first woman came in in 1940-41 I believe and that was Marty Mann, M-A-N-N and she happened to be a patient of Dr. Thiebaud, the psychiatrist that was helping Bill, a really bright lady and quite capable. In fact, she started the National Council of Alcoholism which is a thriving organization today nationally. Please Alex. So, I'm in CODA as well and the one of the things that I was hearing here is like with physicians groups and how important it is to maintain a connection with a greater groups and one of things that learned is part of my issue is the compare and contrast. And I'm always trying to be better than and compare and what I found in my recovery is to see everybody as equal is very hard for me because I was raised in a competitive way. And so what I am, that tradition is so lovely to me because when I'm in a meeting and somebody is behaving inappropriately or I always wanted to get very judgmental and what I've done instead is to see everybody in the room as a little part of me so that person that's behaving in a way that I find intolerant and I think how am i how do I relate to them and I well I wouldn't do that and then I realized oh a little bit part of really does want to be slouchy there and checking my phone and that's the part of me that I don't allow in myself because I was raised to be better than that you And to just acknowledge that this person, I'm that person too, helps me connect with the whole group and it helps me get out of that judgment and helps my recovery. Yeah. And thank you very much, Alex. And even in the step work when we were looking at step four and coming to grips with column four of the resentment inventory where we're taking our own inventory finally and seeing that we are 100% responsible for our perceptions and our attitudes and our feelings and especially our behavior. And we've made the comment that there is an ego defense mechanism called projection. If we have something inside of ourselves that we don't like, we place it on outside of us. We place it in our heart. We place this on other people. And so the simple approach to that, I think I heard Clancy say, you spot it, you got it. Right? That's projection. All right? and that's what you're talking about. So when you see something in somebody else and you're judging it, take a look as you did, Alex, very healthily. So how do I do that? Where is that coming from? How is that defending my ego? Because it's really just none of my business. Unless it's disruptive, and then as we had the discussion concerning personal integrity with Kim, then you have to risk being disliked for the benefit of the whole by bringing it to group conscience or perhaps first having a quiet conversation with the person saying, doing texting in the meeting may not be in your best interest. All right. But also then from here, the prejudice is so great that 50 white men may stay away from AA and order that we save one colored. All right? Now they're saying here that there was a lot of prejudice, of course, when the book was written in 1939-1940. they didn't allow blacks in the meetings eventually the group conscience said well you could allow one or two in as observers so that they can go and start their own meeting in there with their own kind yeah seriously right well we know that but then eventually of course and what um george was talking about the first challenge to this which actually developed the tradition was in Akron a african-american individual showed up with bleached blonde hair and earring obviously one or two other issues a drug addict at the very best and they were not going to have anything to do with it and you read it someplace in one of the literature pieces dr. Bob was the one that intervened that that's disclosed in one of these and and after a lot of heated discussion about not letting the person in dr bob said you know he's just this authentically oxford group christian he said what would the master do well i mean that that answered the entire question for everybody and they said okay let's let's go and so then it began to democratize if you will All right, anything else on page, let's go over to 141. Anything on that page anybody would like to comment on? We would neither punish nor deprive any AA of membership that we must never compel anyone to pay anything, believe anything or conform to anything including the steps all right including going to meetings because he says if we do this we're pronouncing their death sentence please oh i was i wanted to go back to page 140 and the second paragraph halfway down it says uh yes sir we cater only to pure and respectable alcoholics yeah i always thought that was an oxymoron respectable that's right i'm linda coda and alan on and on page 141 that first paragraph could we then foresee that troublesome people were to become our principal teachers of patience and tolerance well thereby hangs many a tale i mean not wanting to accept the people that push my buttons and not wanting to accept it if you push my buttons. It's because I haven't worked on those buttons. Yeah, how come you have buttons? They can be pushed, right? Alright. Okay, so then how about 142? I've got one more for 141. At last our experience taught us to take away any alcoholic's full chance was sometimes to pronounce a death sentence and often to condemn him to an endless misery. Who dared to be judge, jury in execution of our own sick brother? Page 1. Thank you, Justin. Page 142. What we are really afraid of is our reputation what would the master do we've we've looked at that how about page 143 oh this is the guy with the double stigma that i just talked about from akron they never really disclose what it is but it's somewhere in the words that we've all used but then they have this wonderful description of ed the atheist right who was just a thorn in their side and he kept staying sober now eventually they were vindicated because he did get drunk and then he did convert and go hey let's let's have our meditation so that's quite a wonderful story also all right so then let's go to the illustrated pamphlet all right now we're on the third tradition so it's two pages let's look at that first page first are there any highlights on that that anybody would like to talk about all right it talks about inclusive never exclusive who determines whether or not not newcomers qualify the newcomers themselves it says see exactly there are no authorities no rules no regulations we keep saying it because it's human condition the difference between religion and spirituality one of the differences is that religion has a lot of rules about exclusivity and membership and theology and liturgy and protocol and spirituality really is merely the description of finding our relationship with the mystery finding a relationship with a higher power or with God alright the purpose of organized religion is to do that but because it's filled with human beings they create lots of things that people quote need to follow over time and the same thing happens to aa you all know of meetings that have some rules about what you wear and how you look and etc etc or at least strong guidelines really okay That sentence that you highlighted, who determines whether or not newcomers qualify, what it raises for me is the number of times that people have come and sat down next to me. So what meetings do you go to? I haven't seen you lately. So how long have you been in the program? And it's hard for me to stand here and talk calmly because really what I want to do is start screaming and shouting. i mean where what gave them how did they give themselves that authority to be my judge right our traditions it says on this second page our traditions allow unparalleled freedom not only to every aa member but to every aaa group it's an amazing approach to organizing human beings All right. Please. This is where I read about the special interest groups. Yeah. So this is where they say that we do have special interests like young people's meeting, physician meeting, but they consider themselves AA members first. So that's a nice criteria. Right. Yep. Tom? Tom. Tom Alholick. Now, I hope I'm not a little bit out of sync on this, but I was always under the impression that I think it was Jim Burwell was credited with this notion of God as we understand God. Yeah. But that's not entirely accurate, that actually his being a thorn in the side of the fellowship in the beginning was part of this whole notion of only requiring for membership is a desire to stop drinking. okay Jim you don't even have to believe in God that's right yeah yeah do you have a comment on no no I don't actually know but there's so much wonderful stuff in the AA history it's a wonder we did survive it and it was Bill's genius and brilliance and the guidance of I believe a higher power that we got the steps and And we got it codified in the big book so that it didn't get distorted over years Then we got their traditions so that the meetings didn't Distorted over years and then we got the concepts so that Organizational structure and the functioning from a business standpoint didn't Get distorted over yours. I mean, it's an amazing accumulation of just wonderful Guidance and brilliance please hi herb. I'm Duncan. I have an alcoholic on good I'm really happy that the brochure includes the cartoon at the top right of the second page, The Tiger by the Tail. We are a bit afraid you'll harm us, never mind how twisted or violent you may be. Yeah. It's the wisdom of my experience that AA can never be hurt by those they let in. Yeah, yeah. Well, with an informed group conscience and people who have the courage of integrity also, please, Rob. Yeah, Rob, compulsive eater. So yes, there's one more comment on the special interest groups because I did note the contrast in this pamphlet versus the original essay from Grapevine says these special interest groups offer only one instance of the diverse and inclusive membership which made me wonder how does a special interest group demonstrate inclusive membership but mostly what I attributed this too, is that Bill's original essay was written in 1948 and this was written in 1971. Sure. And things have changed since then so you know the approach is a little bit different. Yeah, yeah. And Bill had the insight we know only a little more will be revealed. A good friend of mine says yes more will be revealed and it's rarely good news but anyway all right so now let's step into the questions that were prompted that would really address the question that was asked a lot earlier and about the application at work and in family with special significant relationships and friends because four through eight or yeah probably are all addressing our own personal application of these principles in our personal lives and so what I'd like to do is take each question globally and have anybody who wants to share pick out a laser focused comment reflection or experience about that and then we'll go on to the next question because I'd to try to actually taste a little bit of each of the questions rather than having to stop halfway through as we have the the last couple times because we were engaged and you were with this process and we have lots of experience and ideas about it so question number four what is acceptance am i accepting of others and their experiences or lack of experiences in my life etc in a at work in my personal relationships with family and friends anybody have a written thing that they'd like to read if it's short or just a synopsis of it? Nicole Allenon. Hi, Nicole. I was really grateful for this one because the acceptance for me, it's easy for me to accept on a group level because that's where I learned about acceptance. And it gets harder as it comes down. So the work thing, I'm getting better at that. But my family, I find it to be the hardest place for me to go into acceptance around anything. And I can still spin out on that a lot. So that's where I struggle with this. The group is easy. Loving them is easy, everything else not so much. Sure, yeah. Keep coming back, Nicole. Anybody else? Yeah, please. You don't have to wait for permission to get up. You can queue up so we don't waste any time in between. Katie Alcohock, the only thing I wanted to say is, you know, I looked up acceptance in the dictionary. Yes. Turns out it means to receive a gift. Yes. And so when I am faced with that clenching tolerance, oh, God, I have to accept this, sometimes now I have the ability to go, okay, where's the gift here? Yeah. Okay, God. What you got going here? Nice. And that changes my attitude completely. I love that. But she looked it up and she really translated into a personal application in terms of acceptance, meaning having a gift connotation. I love the word invitation. Where's the invitation? I'm disturbed. Where's The Invitation? I'm surprised. Where's THE Invitation, all right? I find resistance. Where'sThe Invitation. George. Hi, George Barrell, alcoholic again. In my work, I get a lot of phone calls from people who want all kinds of things that may or may not be related to what I do, well, that are not related. And I've come to accept that my job is to be of service to the community and if people are calling with something about which I have tangential knowledge but can't actually help them, I give them the benefit of that instead of just saying I can't help you, goodbye. And so I've become very accepting of my role as just a source of help. Well, see, that's humility is to know what you know and to know what you don't know. And don't be upset with the fact that you're human and you don�t know everything. We don't have to defend that. And so be looking at number five now, and I'll be commenting in just a minute. Sarah food addict Sarah I'm very grateful that in my 12-step program I'm taught about acceptance because what I wrote was by accepting others who have the same spiritual need that I do but come from different backgrounds have different ideas, different history. By accepting all of that I become more whole myself and it's kind of like, I just thought about this sitting here, that as an organism I become more inclusive so I become like the whole world and in my work and personal relationships I get to practice what I learn in my program and I'm getting better at it and have recently let go of trying to control my brother who I see addictive behaviors in but he's not interested in what I do or your control And I've been or exactly. And so I recently hit a bottom about that and realized I'm not being a very good sister, a very loving sister, and that he's a grown man and, you know, let him live his own life. And maybe I can be a better demonstration of what I would like him to know about yeah that thank you Sarah that poetic image of going into the dark cave where the alcoholic is also reminded me of a phrase from psychology that helps me with sponsorship and that is meet them where they are not where they should be not where They want to be not where they think they ought to be not where I think they are to be not where i want them to be meet them where they are that's about acceptance isn't it so how about am I inclusive with others am I truly open-minded etcetera in my uh... fellowship at work and in my personal relationship but think about uh... When you're sponsoring, I know in the AA pamphlet on sponsorship, it talks about being circumspect about how you manage sponsees because, and it makes this analogy, the sponsor relationship to the sponsee is much like a family relationship, parent-child. And with sponsees, then, the possibilities are for sibling rivalry. It's just they're raising the issue, all right? Be conscious of that. Do you have a gathering of sponsee? I can see the real benefit of that where there's a band of brothers or sisters that has some common ground and they have a support for one another. I could very easily see the difficulty with it. So you just have to think those things through in terms of the implications of it. It sounds like a really good idea, but what are the implications of it? All right. Write a response to these reflections. Consider if I set others on a pedestal, etc. What is the primary principle under this tradition? Write a reflection. Life and behavior. One of the reasons that I took the time to get copies of the principles was that particular piece of the assignment. I thought, well, some people may not have seen or may not have handy the spiritual principles outlined in the steps that I pass out during the step workshop. So I thought I'd make that available because there's two other handouts. One shows the traditions, the individual weakness and the group weakness. For instance, for tradition three is exclusivity, whereas the principle of that tradition is inclusivity. The spiritual principle of the steps is trust, as I have determined it. and the individual or group action is welcome or acceptance or tolerance this is what we've been talking about the entire workshop acceptance and tolerance or a spirit of what there's a group of Catholic nuns in our area that runs a retreat center Mary Joseph Retreat Center and their charism they call that that's their gift their special ministry is hospitality so they're there although they're a group of catholic irish nuns they run a retreat center that's open to everybody buddhists and hindus and atheists and whoever they can come there all right if you need the space for spiritual reasons i mean you pay a fee and all but there it's open to you because they have this wonderful attitude of welcome how about we have that when we walk into our meeting having a hospitality ministry and an attitude of well come that might change something and then the other one is the spiritual substance of anonymity is sacrifice and we'll see that more in depth as we go further on with some of the other traditions but the comment was made at the in our orientation that we have to give up something personal because we're now part of a group in 1980 I'll make it quite personal in 1980 I had cancer up here on my leg and the doctor said I have scheduled you to remove your leg tomorrow I said let's get a second opinion apparently the second opinion was contrary to that because I'm still walking on two but I would have been willing to give up my leg to save my life and that's the point of the sacrifice of the individual in favor of the group the sacrifice of The Cell in favor Of the body so for the third uh for the Third Tradition it still is we give up this need for exclusivity specialness uniqueness for a open attitude of inclusiveness and of course the big book suggests that very strongly inclusive never exclusive the book was written by victor frankel man's search for meaning man's search for a meaning in the late 40s early 50s he was released from auschwitz he was a psychiatrist in the late 40s 40s 45 was captured by the ss and brought to auschwitz and because of he was the psychiatrist md he was put in charge of processing the inmates and he became very clear over time watching who survived and who didn't survive who was healthy and who was not healthy he says i have no con he wrote a book on it man search for meaning If you haven't read it, please do. It's so simple. It's a little tiny book, 100 pages. He says, I have no control over being in Auschwitz. I have not control over the guards. I have control over my friends. I have know control over food, the weather, my bunkmates, nothing. I have known control over anything. The one thing that I have controlled over and I've watched the people survive because they have understood this intuitively. The one things that I can manage is my attitude about it i think that's related to that acceptance versus approval i accept my conditions this is the reality and i'm going to live to be the best human being i can be given the circumstances i don't have to like it i certainly don't know how to do it i don' t have to condone it all right our respective 12-step fellowships help their members maintain their personal recovery and encourage them to offer to share their recovery experience freely with others who may have a similar problem. This we owe to our fellowship's future, to place our common welfare first, to keep our fellowship united for on unity depends our lives and the lives of those to come. When anyone anywhere reaches out for help we want the hand of our fellowship always to be there and for that we are responsible after a moment of silence please join me in the prayer of st. Francis Lord make me a channel of thy peace that where there is hatred I may bring love that where there is wrong I may the spirit of forgiveness that where there is discord i may bring harmony that where there is error i may bring truth that where there is doubt i may bring faith that where there is despair i may bring hope that where there are shadows i may bring light that where there is sadness i may bring joy lord grant that i may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted to understand and to be understood to love than to be loved for it is by self-forgetting that one finds it is by forgiving that one is forgiven it is by dying that one awakens to eternal life amen thank you guys see you next