The Fifth Step and the Stage Character – Sponsorship Workshop – 2024 – Part 3 of 16 – Ali H.

Okay, so into action. Into action. Okay. Having made our personal inventory. Oh, Kuna, I wish we would have recorded the Q&A. Okay, that's okay. Having made your inventory, what shall we do about it? In yellow, please. We have been trying to get a new attitude, a new relationship with our creator and to discover the obstacles in our path. that's in yellow so in the attachment that kuna has put in the chat for the directions of the what we've been doing from the beginning there's a little bit more detail it'll give you exactly when to do what even more detail right because maybe not enough room to put in back of the big book so what i usually do when the person is we've gone through the the inventory, they go stuff and they finish their inventory. What I usually do is either right before doing a fifth step or I set up a session and just do the fifth step pages and then I set a time to do the sixth step later. It's important for the person to be present to these fifth step stages while we're doing this okay and then i set up but all these details are those on those directions that we're going to email as well okay so in yellow we have been trying to get a new attitude a new relationship with our creator and discover the obstacles in our path from the yellow put a line to the left we're gonna move a little bit more quickly line tothe left please write long ways on the left margin please write this is why i write inventory this is why i write inventory that's all the writing is i want to get a new attitude a new relationship with my creator and discover the obstacles in my path this is what i write an inventory my main focus of an inventory is not to learn more about myself if that was the case i would only write one inventory and inventory will sustain me for decades later. Some people do that and that's okay to each their own. This is why I write inventory. If all I wanted to find out was more about myself, remember self-knowledge is enough it says right? I would have a nice, a good psychologist, psychiatrist and a therapist and motivational speakers and a few books I could learn about my human nature. That's how I write inventory although as a byproduct i learned about myself i write inventory this is very clear to get a new attitude in your relationship with god and to discover the obstacles in my path at any time when i write the inventory that's that's present for me i get to do that okay no more yellow we have admitted certain defects we have ascertained in a rough way what the trouble is we have put our finger on the weak items in our personal inventory now these are about to be cast out this requires action on our part which when completed will mean that we have admitted to god to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our defects if you grab the yellow please from have admitted to god we just read it in yellow have admitted it to god, to ourselves, and to other human beings the exact nature of their defects have admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature. That's in yellow. Okay? No more yellow. This brings us to the fifth step in the program of recovery mentioned in the preceding chapters. Please circle the fifth stop. Please highlight in yellow that circle, the fifth start. From this circle to the left margin, please bring a line to the right margin and curve it, put an arrow to the highlight above the fifth step. What is the fifth step? It's that we have admitted to ourselves to God, to ourselves, to another human being the exact nature of our defects. That's the fifth step. So highlight the first step, circle it, put a line and arrow to the highlight above, which is the definition of what the fifth step is. This is perhaps difficult, especially discussing our defects with another person. We think we have done well enough in admitting these things to ourselves. There is doubt about that. Highlight in yellow, please. In actual practice we usually find the solitary self-appraisal insufficient. That's in yellow very important. if i could see myself 360 i wouldn't need a sponsor i wouldnít need brothers sisters in the path i wouldníd need the fellowship i would need the program of alcoholic synonyms i would come into this program get a spiritual awakening as well to 12 steps say thank you very much on a little good life now because now solitary self of me appraising myself is sufficient but the big book says it's insufficient okay insufficient many of us thought it necessary to go much further we will be reconciled to discussing ourselves with another person when we see good reason why we should do so in yellow now important for the new person the best reason first if we skip this vital step we may not over overcome drinking. If we skip this final step, we may not overcome drinking. time after time newcomers have tried to keep to themselves certain facts about their lives trying to avoid this humbling experience they have turned to easier methods almost invariably they got drunk having persevered with the rest of the program they wondered why they fell we think the reason is that they never completed their house cleaning they took inventory all right but hung on to some of the worst items in stock they only thought they had lost their egoism and fear they only thought they have humbled themselves but they had not learned enough of humility fearlessness and honesty in the sense we find it necessary until they told someone someone all their life story okay i don't know if you guys sensed it but i went somewhere else i was just reading i wasn't even here all right it's okay no highlights there okay it's all good okay so that's all very self-explanatory one thing until they told someone all their life story by the way so um every you know context is important it's truly important right at times things are taken out of context in this in this big book and presented it certainly which is not the truth of this people i don't believe so right for example that line something until they took someone told someone all their life story right i've heard of people coming to me and saying the sponsor they had they said you write your life story write story as much as you can on this stuff that no that's not what in the context of the columns and the inventories our life story is flushed out in fact we're supposed to stay very succinct very to the point not a big story in that sense okay so life's there okay in yellow that's neither here or there i wouldn't tell the newcomer that i don't know why it came up in yellow the next paragraph who i love this paragraph who i can relate to this no matter where i am in recovery more than most people the alcoholic leads a double life he's very much the actor to the outer world, he presents his stage character. This is the one he likes his fellows to see. He wants to enjoy a certain reputation, but knows in his heart he doesn't deserve. That's all in yellow that's important. If you grab the pen face, this second last sentence, this is the One he likes as fellows to see put a question mark. Do you relate to that? Currently, let's guys ourselves currently sometimes different areas of life do i try to present as someone else another spiritual teacher talked about stage character that i want people to see that you know but why he wants it to enjoy a certain reputation but knows in his heart he doesn't deserve it put a question mark do i still have that sometimes these days the last six months different areas of life okay and i would obviously i would ask a new person on taking through right i would relate to them okay we'll move forward the Again, this paragraph could be unpacked and talked about for hours, but that's not what we're doing here. The inconsistency is made by the things he does on his sprees? All the whys close to the question mark or to the right margin. I want a certain reputation. I say a certain thing, but I go through a spree. I drink, and then I'm just a totally different person. They're so inconsistent. Isn't that evident? Coming to his senses, he's revolted at certain episodes he vaguely remembers. These memories are a nightmare. he trembles to think someone might have observed him as far as he can he pushes these memories far inside himself he hopes they will never see the light of day in yellow the last sentence important in yellow he's under constant fear of tension that makes for more drinking in yellow put a question mark after drinking do you remember being that way when you were drinking and these days don't put this down here but these days how this big book could meet me is he's under constant pre-intention that makes for more thinking but don't put it down with new colors question one psychologists are inclined to agree with us we have spent thousands of dollars for examinations we know but a few instances where we have given these doctors a fair break we have seldom told them the whole truth nor we have followed nor have we followed their advice unwilling to be honest with these sympathetic men we were honest with no one else small wonder many of the medical profession have a low opinion of alcoholics and their chance of recovery transfer recovery in yellow please we must be entirely honest with somebody if we expect to live long or happily in this world okay we must be entirely honest with somebody if we expect to live longer happily in this world that's in yellow okay what do they say i don't have to dance with everybody but i gotta dance want somebody i gotta be honest with nobody man somebody's gonna see me that's why i give spiritual consent to my sponsor and to a few other people around me spiritual permission that at any time you can come to me and ask questions about areas of my life and give me considerations because I don't want to die and I know that you care about me and you see me 360 the way I don' t see myself, right? I got to be honest with somebody. That's why we're doing the fifth step, right ? So no more yellow. Rightly and naturally, we think well before we choose the person or persons with whom to take this intimate and confidential step. Those of us belonging to a religious denomination which requires confession must, and of course, will want to go to the properly appointed authorities whose duty it is to receive it. Though we have no religious connection, we may still do well to talk with someone ordained in established religion. We often find such a person quick to see and understand our problem. Of course, we sometimes encounter people who do not understand our problems. So again, I explained to the new person, this book was written at a time where were very few meetings they were very private and exclusive right um and there weren't many people to sponsor so at that time the suggestion was he ordained priest all that kind of stuff no problem yeah you certainly don't have to these days if you choose to that's not a problem you don't need to right but but these days we have so many people in alcoholics anonymous and so many are able to sponsor that there's no one else other than a real alcoholic who's had this experience who's read a fifth step who's listened to fifth steps can see what we're doing here can help us okay so that's what that's why i usually give the explanation um if we cannot oh by the way so i never so if i'm with somebody i don't know it is coming to me so in a fifth step if i am with somebody and and i have been and this person reads their fifth step to me and then there's parts of the fifth step that is so embarrassing or in or they may think it's incriminating that i want to share it with a priest because they they're christian maybe right they don't have whatever they're ordained whatever someone else um okay god bless you do what you gotta do maybe one day if we continue to stay in this relationship you feel okay to share with me too no problem i don't let that be an impediment to them having a spiritual experience you know i don' t want to play god with their lives okay so if we cannot or would rather not do this we search our acquaintance for a closed mouth understanding friend perhaps our doctor or psychologist would be the person it may be one of our own family but we cannot disclose anything to our wives or our parents which will hurt them and make them unhappy we have no right to save our own our own skin at another person's expense such parts of our story we talk to someone who will understand yet be unaffected there's been examples of people reading their fifth steps about their wives to their wives they show them what we do here or look where i was wrong right no we don't we don t do that okay uh so if if the situation arises there's no member of aaa that i can read a mini fifth step with i just have a co-worker right that i just need to no problem no problem if they're willing to listen to it but i don't read it if they are in my fifth step because they're going to be affected in terms of sponsorship men that i've sponsored they have asked me and i have said okay they've written they've read resentments they have towards me okay so one time one time no problem especially if they're really new one time if their first time no trouble i have to do a lot of prayer right one time after that i may not be affected my ego will get in the way if you have a resentment against me find something no problem some find someone else to read it too because this is about effectiveness and freedom i don't want to get into my ego i don' t want my ego to get in the way okay we're almost there where are we we're most there last okay last line last line today we're going to do in yellow the rule is that we must be hard on ourselves on ourself but always concerned of others always concerned about us that's in yellow sorry i like we have time for another The rule is that we must be hard on ourselves, but always consider others in yellow. That's the rule in life, especially reading inventory. No more yellows, notwithstanding the great necessity for discussing ourselves with someone. It may be one is so situated there is no suitable person available if that is. So we take this. We this step may be postponed only, however, However, if we hold ourselves in complete readiness to go through it at the first opportunity. We say this because we are very anxious that we talk to the right person, it is important that we are able to keep a confidence that we that he fully or he or she fully understand and prove that we are driving that we're almost done that he will not try to change our plan, but we must not use this as a mere excuse to postpone in yellow. we decide who's to hear our story we waste no time that's in yellow important when we decide who's here a story we raise no time. That's in Yellow, no more yellow. We have written an inventory and we are prepared for a long talk. We explain to our partner what we are about to do and we have to do it if there's a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and sponsor no need to explain they know exactly what we're doing. In yellow we're almost done this last paragraph in yellow he should realize that we are engaged upon a life and death error in yellow only another member of alcoholics anonymous would truly realize from experience that this is a life and death there that's in yellow okay no more yellow most people approaching this way will be glad to help they will be honored by our confidence thank you guys i appreciate you guys before we end before we close please just if you just um just please stay for just a couple of seconds so next week for our uk friends we go back to the old times that you had apparently right from next week um we'll see you next week next week we'll try our best to get we'll definitely get through six and seven and dive into eight and nine um so next week will be session 10 session 11 and 12. as it stands it looks like we're on pace that perhaps finish the 10th step maybe the 11th step okay so i think there's more than enough um if you only if you really end that workshop here there's more than not to do exactly what you need to do and start 10 11 you know you guys for the people that are going to stay that they would like to stay then continue to stop 11 stop 12 and then maybe when we go back to the beginning cover everything that we missed which is not really necessary for you to stay you know but if you wanted to stay uh i'm willing to stay for a few more weeks as well um so i just wanted to let you guys know um and god bless you thank you for staying here mickey would you close us in prayer and if you're gonna stay for questions and answers i wanna stay for about an hour hour and a half thank you guys thank you wally and i'm gonna do the saint francis prayer lord make me a channel of thy peace and where there is hatred i may bring love that whether is wrong i may bring the spirit of forgiveness that where there is discord i may bring harmony that where there is error i may bring truth that where there is doubt i may bring faith that where there is despair i may bring hope and where there are shadows i may bring light and where there is sadness i may bring joy lord grant that i may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted to understand and to be understood to love then to be loved where it is by self-forgetting that one finds it is but forgiving that one is forgiven it is like dying that one awakens to eternal life oh man beautiful fantastic frank can we just unmute everybody so we can say goodbye to the friends that are leaving and the friends i want to stay with your hands up thank you everybody Thank you, Diana dear. Thank you everyone. Happy Easter to those who celebrate. Happy Easter. Thanks everybody. Thank you everybody. Thank you. Beautiful. Is Frank still on? I think he may not be on. Okay. No, sorry we're logging off because we have to go. oh yeah yeah no no problem thank you kristen for staying thank you frank thank you everybody team members if you need to go you need all good thank you very much appreciate you guys all right so okay sounds good um so anyone has any questions and or brief comments joanna come on up please hi joanna i'm an alcoholic um okay i i i didn't miss it but my trees are being taken down so the fourth step i just have a couple questions um i have a new person this is the first time i'm doing this so um and i believe she is ready for the fourth step um again is it wise to say you know start out with step with column one two and three and then and then we get into color four like i'm not really sure how to do this the right way i'm sorry so no that's okay john please please forgive me can you repeat that can you read that one more time that question just more succinctly i'm sorry sure all right um i have a new person i'm this is my first time sponsoring so of course um so uh we're just about to start the fourth step um and what i'm wondering is should can i have her do just like the first two columns because that's easy peasy for like all of us and then i have a we go through and talk about and do a second like no yeah so you go through the third we go to fourth like am i supposed to go through the fourth column with her and that's the other question okay so did i so i want to be clear enough so you have a new person have you been taking this new person through the big book as we were doing all along beautiful so they've gone to the first and second and third step right beautiful okay fantastic so as you give columns the columns are for them to do as a silence along the way if they have any questions you can make yourself available make some things clear right no problem and then the fourth column no it's for them to do right okay fifth step joanne when you're listening to a fifth step that's where you get involved in anything in the fourth column that they have missed or they haven't quite gotten through prayer and spirit were real to you and to your own experience does that make sense yes yeah that absolutely does i just wanted to be sure i don't know if it was me if you know i just whatever because i know i know myself had to be pulled through basically i mean she didn't help me with it but um yeah it took me so listen no one no wonderful that's not a bad thing to do either so you're correct in saying this so sometimes i've had sponsors that i've given them that one or two or three days to do a fourth column four days whatever it is right and then they're just drawing blank so i gotta meet them where they are i've sat with them in coffee shops let's do an example together justice to get him started one or three together oh do you see it these oh that's what nice did you see that and then again yeah for sure there's no rigidness in this but i don't want to be doing their work in the fourth column either you know what i mean right so so i do the resentments one separate time and then we go on to the next or do we do this all at once i mean i know what was done with me exactly exactly check this out okay so exactly how we do it in the video how we're doing it exactly like that okay just for and then and then the email we're going to send uh did you were you able to download save into your desktop the link that kuna put okay the directions are it's so clear there you won't miss it it'll say after this session one to two days give give them time to do master list and whatever right and then do this it's really clear okay so we don't do the best step until they're 100 done this stuff like i don't go through the resentments okay all right because thank you no no problem right in the big book we just follow the big book big book does fourth step resentment four-step fear first step sex and then talks about the fifth step exactly like that okay yeah yeah that's that's all good and i just need to get into sex relations i know it's not my business it's like no please don't start looking for sex already it's not my business like you said right beautiful your praise stick to the book pray we share experience too right it's okay okay thank you joanne absolutely thank you so much thank you so much joanne god bless you thank you linda come on up please Hi, my name is Linda and I'm a grateful recovered alcoholic. And my question is, is in the sex inventory what I one time I was told is that not only you know sex sex but how i may use my like flirting or stuff like that uh to get my way and that um is that part of it or is it just you know you talked about relationships in that is there a you know part of the sex inventory that might have the flirting or using the um the male or female way of getting what they want i guess is my question if you understand i understand thank you that's a great point i understand for sure so so remember as we talked about earlier this is not a pornographic inventory this is really how i show up in a relationship inventory and this is the answer it may come to me to the question as i do my sex inventory the first question is where have i been selfish dishonest and inconsiderate it may come to that the spirit revealed to me well i use flirting because i know the person is into me to manipulate them that definitely can mean that so it may become absolutely these are my conducts how i show up in the arena of romantic relationships how do i show up that absolutely you're 100 right yes okay thank you oh you're welcome linda thank you zoe from boston come on up please okay thank so much ellie yeah there's a lot that we covered today and i appreciate that uh thoroughness um they were you know there's a couple of things like i felt like you know working with one sponsee um i think she just stumbled on that whole you know sex inventory um i mean i think that she was able to see some of her parts but then it was like all of a sudden she did not want to face um another part of it and and what she said was what she said was like oh no I was traumatized I don't have to do that so I don' t mean to laugh we all traumatized here but yeah she walked away but one of the things was as a sponsor what I realized was that you know I felt that like that because she like it says in the book like she cannot be honest enough to say you know and because she's not being completely honest um and she's she's like trying to avoid making the amends right so she's like i've been traumatized i don't have to do this um so my only suggestion was um yeah you know it's like we've we've all been traumatized and um but if you feel this way then you know um then i see i suggest that you continue to do the steps with the um with the therapist because she wasn't clearly gonna get um to the honesty piece about you know her i want to say her i think she did really good with the resentments i think your question please oh the question so it's like well what do you do when um you know somebody just says they don't want to do this um and i think the other question was there was a lot in here so like what is it what is meant by when it says he wants to enjoy a certain reputation that knows he his heart does not deserve it and what does that mean okay perfect thank you zoe thank you for sharing your experience i got i got exactly what you were saying um so um so first of all god doesn't make too hard terms for us we're all broken uh i believe let me speak for myself i don't have to be perfect especially in this area of sponsorship and passing this message on i learn and grow as i keep going i learn to see what's effective and what's not effective and i believe is that what you did exactly what you're supposed to do with her and there's a lesson in that for her there's growth in that für you just like it is for me Sponsees are on my path, not for me to keep sober. For me to stay sober and for me to grow in God consciousness to be better. That's what Sponsee is on my path for. That is what I believe. So in terms of that sex inventory and someone being very traumatized so I wasn't there. I can't judge that. What should have been said? What shouldn't have been said? What should we do? But I tell you in a general way, in prayer the spirit will guide me to do whatever the spirit wants me to do right so sometimes some when somebody's sometimes i'm not saying that's what you did okay so please forgive me i'm just saying that what's coming to me right now because i've had that experience sometimes i've an idea that um things should be done a certain way and this person is not going to get the program unless they're absolutely done this way and i realized later on that perhaps not perhaps i got to meet someone exactly where they're at okay so each situation is different maybe in a situation that somebody just doesn't want to touch on anything or maybe in the resentment inventory they were just they were they have a resentment against somebody that had raped them as a kid or whatever it was right i'm not going to be pressing that issue if they tell me i was traumatized that's not what i want to do all right let's move forward because god will reveal to them down the road it's not the first last inventory they're they're going to be right i'll just move forward and i just do what we do and god awakens them and they're gonna keep getting awakened so um but it may be in a situation that the person is so defiant throughout the whole thing and then they're defying through this and i guess i step back and i shake hands and i step back i don't have much of a role here anymore right so that's that's basically my my thoughts on that um and i know that you did the right thing for that person for you because that's what you did. That's what you did and that's perfect, right? So in general today those subjects are kid gloves a little bit if someone is telling me about their wounds I don't push it too much if they've been willing and doing the rest of the work I don'T get hung up on one item on a sex inventory and one or two items on a resentment inventory God doesn't make too hard terms that i've been spoon-fed myself exactly the amount of spiritual awakening and realization that i can handle at a certain time you know so so just that's my thoughts on that and then uh enjoy reputation doesn't deserve it which is just i don't think i think um just in general so i always wanted everyone to believe that um That I'm worthy of respect, that I'm somebody, that I am smart. You know what I mean? That I don't know, that am a hard worker at work, that I loveable, that are funny, right? That I always wanted people to see that, that I'll be a good boyfriend, that I have a good worker, that I've a good martial artist, whatever it is, right. And then because my entire existence and peace, and serenity was based and deeply rooted on what you thought about me. So my reputation, what other people's thought about Zoe in different areas of life was very important to me. When I was drinking, but deep down Zoe, deep down, I just had a feeling that I'm just not quite enough. You know, different areas of life, I'm not quiet enough. I was aggressive in certain situations because I was afraid. I felt like I'm hot stuff when I felt like I was, when I deep down, I pretended like I wasn't confident with the opposite sex. Deep down, I felt ugly and afraid that I'm not really that kind of thing. I hope that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Beautiful. And we could use that. We could today, these days in my life, if I want to be really honest with myself, i could see it coming up sometimes much smaller degrees though right it doesn't last as long a special program but especially when i was drinking and especially when i'm in the program and i have my foot off the gas pedal for a while and the isms come for a visit i'm not drinking but i'm not doing all right then i'm really worried about my reputation what you think about me deep down i think i don't deserve it that was a long answer yeah well so that still may come up based on like that you know like the fears uh that that we have so it's like that uh that good enough thing um where we feel like we're phony but but you know i really like where on the paragraph right above that you know it says only thought only thought and then it's like um you know it's it's this thinking that can that throws me into the fear right so it's coming from that ego uh self-centered fear that that but it's but now today we could say i mean you could say make it personal make it powerful okay okay so powerful so can i say um once i turn my life over to the care of god and i do this daily i can say i deserve a good life or i deserve uh this this yeah can i take you out of there can i take you outta that conversation i would like you to consider to come out of that conversation okay because that