Powerlessness Over People Places and Things – 12 Steps/12 Traditions Workshop – Part 2 of 7 – Chris R.

Thank you, Jan. Declaration of Unity. In this, we owe to AA's future to place our common welfare first, to keep our fellowship united, for on AA unity depends our lives and the lives of those to come. Thank you Joy. The speakers will now be addressing the questions you've sent in throughout the weekend. We will not be taking questions from the floor. Please do not raise your digital hand. We will now be acknowledging the use of the raised hand feature. The speakers will only be addressing the questions that were sent in during the workshop. The first question is for Billy. Ready for that first question. Fire away. Okay. My local intergroup office manager said that the pie chart shown in the Seventh Tradition pamphlet is what meetings are supposed to go by. My service sponsor said that The Pie Chart is just a sample to show groups how to create their own pie chart and that groups decide how much money they send and to where. What is correct, please? um so and actually the pamphlet used to show a whole bunch of samples of different types but i'm going to explain what i think is correct your gsr and if you have an intergroup rep or central office rep when you make decisions on where you are contributing money they you should use the same thing for an informed group conscience based on the best information at that time. You might have a time when you're in a group is in a worse financial condition than your district or your area or the general service board. That's a very personal decision for a group, and what I would tell you, it's none of anybody's business except for that group. All right. The next one is for you, Chris. What page did Chris refer to in a member's iView pamphlet? It is on page 14. Page 14 of member's iview. Thank you, Chris? Yeah, second paragraph down. Billy, I'm the GSR at my in-person home group. Would it be okay for me to be GSR at my Zoom home group at the same time? That sounds like a two-part question. So first, you're free to say you're just the GSL of your home group You don't need to define whether it is online or in person because you should only have one and you should not be a gsr at even two in-person groups one group one member serve in one of those places that's it uh i don't know where that's coming from but i actually do there's a bunch of people who are taking advantage of this platform who are out broadcasting their convoluted message not based on the literature and people are just believing them but no you should be one GSR, and you should have one home group. And you should enjoy attending as many meetings as makes you happy. Next, Chris. Did I hear Chris say that he is no longer powerless? I'm interested. Please see if you will be so kind to elaborate for me. This has been a great workshop for me Thank you. I am powerless over alcohol. I will die powerless over alcohol if I put it in my system, that craving can get triggered and I'm off to the stupid races. Where I want to draw the line is because there's folks in AA that have taken it past that. I'm powerless. I'm powerless over people, places, and things. I am so not powerless over people, places and things. I get a chance. I got sober. I was when I was out there drinking. I mean, you could put, you know, whatever. But guys, this is all about power. I Got Sober so that I can actually start doing something with my life. And I think to paint a picture that we're all just a bunch of powerless people struggling to stay sober one day at a time. This just makes me want to hurl. And that's not in the big book. So let's get some power out there, boy. New power flows in, right? Billy, why do groups make bylaws and guidelines when we have the tradition? Because Tradition 4 gives them a lot of autonomy on local issues. And so those guidelines or bylaws should not be countering or changing any of the traditions. instead what they should be doing is getting a bunch of things out of the way so you don't have to argue about them over and over the groups decided what day it weeks meets the groups decided what time it needs the groups decide how much sobriety time the chairperson should have the groups deciding how many trusted servants it should have the groups decided how its business meeting operates the groups decided the format of its group those are all things that are better put together so that especially a new group member can see them so it's not like some hidden secret excellent chris the book living sober harmful or helpful i'm i'm sorry i'm having an internet problem i probably won't be able to answer that question is that a pass there is some no i won't pass there's some uh good things in it uh but again billy's heard me talk about this before i'm trying to be a good boy i just i'm one more time i said it earlier i think that we really need everybody needs to read everything that aa produces you know as it's all there's all those elements of really good stuff and all of that i uh i just it contradicts the big book sometimes it's just they've taken the steps out they don't talk about god it's just the it's not one of my favorites but um but i do like the new cover it looks pretty billy newcomer the most important person in the room is this a myth uh yeah it's so disrespectful to tradition one i mean imagine the person who opened up that room wasn't there that day where would the newcomer go we need everybody we need everybody now that doesn't mean that when someone raises their hand and they're new or someone you haven't seen before, that you as a person should not make it your priority. I'll just use me as an example. If I see a person I've never seen before I don't need to talk about the Yankees or the Jets or where I'm golfing next. I make that person my most important responsibility. But for AA, everybody is equally important. thank you chris what does it mean to restore us to sanity i don't know if i've ever been sane before you can that's the cool thing about it in our lives we can be as goofy as a bed bug but the sanity that the book is talking about is the sanity of understanding what alcohol will do once i put it in my system when that obsession goes away god there's a freedom to that it's like to to be able to walk through life and not have to be thinking about triggers and all the other crazy stuff you know i don't have to think about outpouring where i am in that position neutrality safe and protected and that's sanity is returned it doesn't mean that we're not still going to be goofy because some of us are just very charming in that way billy if someone keeps their camera off during an online meeting is that a violation of any of our 12 traditions so i'm going to go back to that question about groups guidelines a group is free to have its own guideline on this issue and the group says all the cameras are on then that's what they have if a group says it's okay, if the camera is not on, so be it. I mean, I think you have to ask yourself, what would you do with in-person AA? If someone came on basically came in with a baseball hat and a hoodie over their face, would you tell them to take it down? I don't think so. If someone come in on Halloween with a costume on and a mask, would you telling them they have to take off? I'm not sure. I don' t think so, but I do think the group has the right. If they want everyone to be present and on camera, then I don't think there's anything wrong with the group requiring that. Chris, I'm having a new experience this weekend for sure. I got sober in a 12-in-12 study, so I'd always assumed that is where the steps and traditions are. I've been very confused at times when I try to take people through the steps because of the vagueness. I feel silly asking this, but are you saying the directions are in the big book? And if so, then why was the 12 and 12 written? Good question. Yes, the instructions are in The Big Book. It was the original deal, I believe, 11 years later. Bill put together some of the thoughts, some additional information about the steps. And that's why I think it's a wonderful book. When I do the tradition stuff, any questions, I go straight to the 12 and 12. I have both, you know, I study them. But I take the little newcomer, I take them through the big book. It's just so they'll understand the basic where we got, yeah, yeah. Nothing, like no bones to pick with the 12 or 12 whatsoever. I know some people that are sober that way. The big book covers some things that the 12 and 12 doesn't. Billy, did I hear you say that AA has no opinion on drug addiction? Something about we should try not to even hint that AA helps drug addiction. Where did you say dat? Let me just go to the page and let me overreach a little because I think Joe and Charlie had the best answer about the 12 in 12. The big book tells you how to work the steps, and the 12 in 12 tells you why to work the steps. Ever since I've heard that, I've just kind of packed it away. So on page 18 of the AA group pamphlet, it says the primary purpose of any AA group is to carry the AA message to alcoholics. Experience with alcohol is one thing all AA members have in common. It is misleading to hint or give the impression that AA solves other problems or knows what to do about drug addiction. I think what's confusing for people there is that drug addiction is no different than any other problem in terms of the big book. As a result of doing this spiritual exercise, some of our other problems might go away. Some of them might not. But if you're not an alcoholic, we can't hint or suggest how to fix what other problem you have. Thank you, Billy. Chris, my sponsor and his sponsor have always introduced themselves as recovered alcoholics. I have recently been through the work, and I'm now helping others. I believe I found the solution and that the drink problem has been removed. I'm very grateful. However, I called myself a recovered alcoholic last week, and a woman in the meeting told me not to say that and that it is controversial. I asked my sponsor and he just asked me if it's in the book. Rhetorical question, I assume. What do you say? She's got a fine sponsor. Guys, I think Bill Wilson was pretty clear. I think it's 17 pages in the books where it says that you can recover. It's just a way of sharing some hope. I, I, uh, I've talked to so many little newcomers and they come in and say, well, I don't want to be a part of AA because I have to introduce myself as somebody sick for the rest of my life. And it's like, guys, I'll die with alcoholism, but the obsession can go away. You can be as on some rock solid ground as you can be. And so, um, if I get an opportunity to share that, I'm going to do, that doesn't mean I'm better than you. It's like I was joking about the other day. If you want to start a storm in your meeting, just introduce yourself as a real alcoholic and you'll get somebody that'll come up to you and make fun of you oh you think you're special you know yeah in a some yeah i am i just i just think it's a really on the title page it says you know we can recover this it's let's yeah claim it and uh when the obsession goes away you're as recovered as you're going to get it may take years to to get over goofy or you know to i don't know there's lots of other room for spiritual growth but uh now we got to share some hope this is the one answer we know that absolutely works for alcoholism folks and um and i you know i don'T want to dissuade somebody from scare somebody off by making this sound like this is some kind of nebulous it might work it might not work i have never seen it not work if you actually do the work ever thank you chris billy can someone be asked to leave and or be thrown out of an online marathon meeting that has no group conscience due to being an event not a group well there's a lot of ways to look at this number one let's just admit that whoever controls the technology is in control that's just a fact we can't get around so somebody in control of technology is removing people it doesn't matter what the group conscience is or not that's an individual action as far as it doesnít say why theyíre being thrown out but all I can tell you itís a good thing Iím not in charge of throwing people out of online meetings uh because i would be throwing out a ton of people um because i don't believe i don'T BELIEVE bad behavior is justified just because it's on a camera or or you know saying inappropriate things is justified JUST BECAUSE IT'S ON A CAMERA AND NOT IN PERSON i would expect anyone to use the same rules for common decency and decorum online as we use in person and i and i think that's one of the challenges right now is there are some people out there who are i'm just going to tell you a true story i was on the phone or on a conference call with an intergroup board of directors this week one night over a meeting that's listed in their directory and it seems that some people are saying, like online is a greater sense of independence and freedom. And that's just garbage that the minute that we separate a difference between online and in person, we are creating problems for ourselves on all levels, home group, GSRs, how the speaker should speak, topic, double trouble meetings, all these things. We have one set of principles. It doesn't matter where the meeting is located. Thank you, Billy. Chris, do you consider amends one-on-one via Zoom as direct? Yes, yes. If it's, yeah, at times, would I prefer to be in the same room with the person? Absolutely, but sometimes it can't happen, but the end results are going to be the same. There's going to be some healing there. And ultimately, that's what we're after. I would rather see them do that than to wait around for six months. I'm going to see him next summer. Okay, but you're carrying this stuff around for, you know, I'd rather see you make your first approach and then see and then start building a relationship that way. Yeah, I believe so. I believe that it's another use for, I mean, Zoom. You know, FaceTime. Rock on. Thanks, Chris. Billy, how to make amends to the group versus individual group members for behaviors occurring at the home group, i.e., yielding minority opinion onto others and going against group format? Well, first of all, I just want to say that inside AA we're not Congress. We don't yield our time to other people you know oh everybody gets two minutes each to share but five people are going to save it up and give one person 10 minutes that's just a way around spiritual principles but as far as how do you make amends to a group in my experience yeah you show up at the business meeting you tell the chairperson you'd like to be put on the agenda a new business and when new businesses is uh opened up and they call on you you don't look for sympathy you just make a very simple statement i just want to apologize to the group i did this in thinking about it i shouldn't have i'm sorry if i hurt anybody or offended anybody period that's the place to do it it's not by whatsapp group text or email i just want to make that clear thank you billy chris i have a sponsee is very defiant and continually argues with a sponsor sponsor i'm sorry this one is reading weird sponsee is very defiant and continually argues with a sponsor says sponsor is wrong and sponseeing not willing to see their mistakes plays victim and everyone did them wrong as a sponsor how would you handle this situation do you continue the fifth step uh i will continue a fifth step but i'm going to stay there until we can move past it i'm gonna you know as long as this this this takes the whole purpose of a fifth step is to stop being a victim so if they can't see their mistakes in that i'm not saying some people weren't hurt i'm just saying you know we we've got to spread the wealth out here a little bit, and if they won't accept that, then we're going to talk. If it's just somebody out there talking trash, I'm not going to do this. I'm Not Going to Do That. Buddy, I'M NOT GOING TO FIRE SPONSEE BECAUSE THEY'RE BEING DEFIANT, BUT I WILL SUGGEST THAT PERHAPS THERE MIGHT BE SOMEBODY ELSE THAT THEY CAN BENEFIT FROM, BECAUse I'M Not Going To Spend A Bunch Of Time Arguing About Something That We Know Works. This Is Not Personalities. This IS About Let'S Work The Steps, AND I GUARANTEE You can have this spiritual experience. And I mean, we're not there to do the arguing thing. I think. Thank you, Chris. Billy, we've had a similar question as this, but it's a little bit different. So I've heard that turning off the zoom camera is a violation of several traditions because the speaker needs to know who they're speaking to. Which traditions does this violate? um i think this is a thing that we have to talk about about online meetings and so i'll give a couple of examples i think if you're broadcasting the audience you have a duty to let everyone in that hybrid meeting know that there are people on camera they can't see who can see them there So I think it's a better idea not to broadcast the audience when you're doing hybrid meetings. The example I would give is if I'm getting sober and I drive to a meeting at lunchtime and my boss's car is there, I have the choice of not going to that meeting because this is Alcoholics Anonymous. As far as the speaker knowing who is there? I just wonder, does that mean that that speaker, if the wrong person was in that church basement or clubhouse, would leave? I don't think so. Are we are speakers now saying, well, I'll speak unless this person shows up? I think we are creating rules that don't apply to in-person and online. And I think that's going to cause us trouble in the future. thank you billy chris can i come to believe in a power greater than myself can restore me to sanity if i don't have an exact definition of a higher power yes i just in a nutshell yes bill wilson and then we're quite clear what happens is we grow the book doesn't say we got to get it figured out that little line in the second step talks about gaining access to and believes in a power greater than ourselves this is like it's just we don't have to believe in something before we can before we make this happen we just have an open mind that there might be something there are we willing to believe and then we do the work and i've just seen some amazing transformations i've seen some little i mean card carrying. I hate God. I'm never going to do this. Atheists just get absolutely hutched by this process of doing the work, and it's not about getting them to come to church. It's not about getting rid of anything. It'S about all of a sudden they realize that we're all spiritual beings and that there's something out there greater than themselves, and they still can't explain it. God, if I was forced to explain what I believe in God right now, I mean some of you guys would freak out you know i've got some beliefs that i told near and dear their mind and i'm comfortable with that so that's the beauty of this this uh this program um again if you buy alan mcginnis some of the stuff that he wrote about talks specifically about that i know people that have had spiritual experiences without i mean have gotten sober without believing in god i can't say much about you know what the rest of their life looks like but i know people that have. I just know how deeply fulfilling my life was when I opened my mind to the possibility that there was something out there bigger than me. It's a great question. Billy, I heard you mention one member, one group, one vote. My sponsor also has taught me that my home group is where I do service, but I see lots of people doing service at many meetings and events can you explain the difference please sign very confused sure i think we have to understand that if we really believe in home groups then we believe in meetings as well that are not home groups that meet the definition of a meeting in the AA group pamphlet. I'll read it. It's funny. It's hard to find. The section is called, Is There a Difference Between a Meeting and a Group? So here we go. Most AA members meet in groups as defined by the long form of our third tradition. However, some AA members hold AA meetings that differ from common understanding of a group. These members simply gather at a set time and place for a meeting, perhaps for convenience or other special situations. The main difference between meetings and groups is that AA groups generally continue to exist outside the prescribed meeting hours, ready to provide 12-step work help when needed. Let me throw out a great... I have two of my favorite don p quotes uh you know one of them is how do you you know you know the great thing about somebody who's had a spiritual experience is they're so rigid and dogmatic but that leads to another spiritual experience but the other quote that i love is the difference between a meeting in a group and for my example this group starts with the serenity prayer and closes with the Lord's Prayer. You can tell the quality of a meeting between the Serenity Prayer and the Lord'S Prayer, but you judge the quality of the group between the LordS Prayer and the Serentity Prayer. What are they doing in between when the meetings happen? Are they involved in 12-step work? Are they connected to the center of AA? Do they get together and celebrate each other's anniversaries? Now this question about doing service, I think it's an easy rule. Number one, don't do service at another home group. Somebody at that group should be doing the service. Now, the more confusing topic is what about if it's just a meeting? Well, if it'S just a meetIng, then I don't see the problem in doing service there. If it's all people from different home groups who just maybe go to that lunchtime meeting that's not a group, but I will throw this out there. If the group is saying it has, if the meeting is saying, it has a GSR and saying it hasn't in a group rep, it's a group do service at your own home group. That's where we're supposed to do it. By the way, I know I have to caveat everything here. Uh, that applies to online. It is amazing now. It's like I'm tuning my TV set and I change from one channel to another to another and the same people are chairing meetings or doing service or speaker seeking or doing this, like it's the same. Do service at your home group. Thank you. Chris. Chris spoke about newcomers most often dropping out after step three and after another step. Not sure what it was. Would you please repeat it? In sponsorship with the guys I've worked with over the years and seeing it out there in my home group and stuff, there's two places in the steps that we just nine times out of ten lose somebody. Everybody will do the first stuff. You know, they'll do a third step prayer and then they'll crap out. You know I'm not ready to start my fourth step yet. They'll spin their wheels and sink to the bottom. The other place is after the fifth step where we do six and seven an hour later. While they're messing with that, it's supposed to be an hour late or they may take weeks to do it. On the eighth step, we don't go on and finish making the amends. So we end up in trouble around that. That's where we start crapping out. And again, it's the whole deal. There is a sense of urgency to finish this work. Guys, please, anybody read the history, talk to anybody. There was nobody that took longer than a few days to do the work back in the day. Nobody took longer. And I'm not saying that he's got to be big, but I mean, you know what? A week, two weeks, a month. Okay. But gosh, any more than that, guys, you're going to sink to the bottom. You know, I'm looking for the spiritual experience and I can't do that. You know? Working with others is what that's about. So yeah, those are the two places we usually watch them fall through the cracks. Question for Billy. Will you please talk about allowing people to have enough time, more than two minutes, during a group conscience meeting to express concerns or a minority opinion? What is the recommended practice process for this, please? I don't think those who attend our group conscience are permitted to express an idea or position. Well, it's not my job to tell other groups what to do. I could tell you at the general service conference where overall AA policy is decided, each person at the microphone is given two minutes. Unless their first language is not English, they're given three with an interpreter. I think the problem inside groups that I witness the most time is that the chair lets somebody go on and on, then lets somebody goes on and on and then they're tired of people going on and on so then they start enforcing the time limit and then people get pissed off because it looks like you're playing favorites so my advice to everyone is the group should set the limit and the chairperson regardless of sponsees regardless of sponsor regardless of friendships the limit should be for everyone Now, minority opinion should be separate and that should be after a vote takes place. But that's up to your group to decide if they allow minority opinion. Not every group has to operate like the General Service Conference. But two or three minutes? I mean, I've been in a lot of AA discussions at districts and areas at home groups. On these topics, you should be able to get your thoughts across in two minutes. And like I said, everything needs to be said, but not everybody needs to say it. So thanks. Thank you, Billy. After listening to Chris talk about step two, I wonder his thoughts on agnostic AA groups and or AAs who share in meetings that they are atheists. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I just want Chris's take on it. Thank you. I think it's another good question. They are absolutely welcome. I just understood that what we're teaching here, what we'RE talking about out of the big book is everything we'RE doing is trying to push somebody towards a spiritual experience. And so this is why, you know, we'RE not there to argue with anybody. the atheists have their own fellowships. You know, there's I don't know how many fellowships out there for people that don't believe in God. And I hope their meetings are full. I just I don' t want them to get in and confuse a little newcomer sometimes. And I've experienced with that that it's usually not a problem. They can believe whatever they want to believe. I mean, Bill Wilson was crystal clear when he wrote the big book, God as you understand it. And if that's the group, fine. It's just that it worked for me. But I'm not there to say my God's bigger than your God. This is a better way to do it. And I don't want to do that. Everybody gets their own path, but there is a path. And that's the message we're supposed to be carrying. So I want them to be comfortable and I don'T want them to feel like they got to fight every time they come to a meeting. Just my experience is this. Anybody that ends up doing the work, something changes and they begin to believe in something. I've just never seen it fail. And it doesn't mean that they're going to end up in the church. It just means that they start feeling the power. And, God, I've seen it a million times. Just don't give up. Just keep plugging. okay billy using images on group websites and meeting flyers which are circulated in private facebook and chat groups such as the blue people phil w dr bob as aa members groups what may we use and what should we not use well i'm not an authority i'll share some experience And the Blue People, for those that don't know, is on the AA.org website. It's kind of this gathering of people of all shapes and sizes and different types. And the blue people is only allowed to be used by a World Services, a great final general service board. And that's because it's trademarked. And that'S because there's no legal connection between those three corporations and groups and districts and areas. we don't want some lawyer to be able to weave a story that if you use the blue people you're officially part of aa um the pictures of bill and bob i would suggest that you get a um i got a message that i can take as much time as i want that we have plenty of time to answer questions i want to uh i don't Want to talk out of turn so i just want to pull something up quickly if you would just uh bear with me one second there is a document out there called co-founders anonymity um i'm trying to see if i can find it right now because of course I have it filed in a certain particular way and I guess I can't find it quickly I cannot find it. The group conscience on obituaries is the place to start here regarding the co-founders if a family wants to break an aa member's anonymity after they die the aa group conscience is that's none of aa's business i hear people say horrible things like can't believe that's in the obituary can't we listen we don't control the family on posthumous anonymity. If they were proud that their dad or their mom or whoever was sober and AA saved their lives, they can print whatever they want. But we never break somebody's anonymity, including deceased members and now including the co-founders for many decades now. We don't treat the co founders as gods or deities or anything. They're a member just like me, just like you. so we should not be using their pictures on flyers it's a break of their anonymity it's a full face even if it says bill w it's afill face if it says dr bob s it's a full face now this other crazy trend of putting actual people's pictures on flyers i actually have one of mine somebody went to social media grabbed a picture of me on a motorcycle and put it on a flyer and of course i didn't know and of course somebody sent me a message what's wrong with you have you lost your mind and i had to ask why um but we don't put pictures when we're not marquees we're Not it's not the vegas strip we don'T we donT need pictures of speakers on flyers it's just not proper it's definitely not in the line with tradition 12 for sure and as far as tradition 11 how are you going to guarantee that a flyer does not go into the public space is not going to be left in a on a table at a church is not gonna get outside a it's just a bad idea and I will look for that document to pass on to everyone else Chris how do you make amends to someone that has died can you explain living amends and how to do that i think um i mentioned it when i was talking earlier uh for the dead folks i mean i i'm just such a huge because i've experienced it myself writing letters to the dead folks um you know getting in a quiet spot reading that letter to them there's nothing in me that doesn't believe that they heard that that deal i'm able to say some things that i needed to say some people maybe think that's you know hokey therapeutic stuff i just i've seen the the results of that and i can tell you story after story um i just think it's important that we do that if we can't make face-to-face uh write that letter again in that article that don p did about willingness he was writing letters in in in what would i say if i was out of prison and i was able to make a face-To-face what would I say and there was there was some relief just from doing that you know i will make the amend when i can get in front but in the meantime uh you know get in there and uh and try to do at least something i just think that's yeah living amends i think is important to understand after you make a face-to-face in other words a direct amend to someone they need to have the opportunity i think to say what's on their mind too and living a man is showing when i made amends to my mom for my alcoholism i told her that I was going to be there because I would disappear for months because of my drinking. And my deal with her was that I'm going to be as close to you as I can possibly be. And I ended up moving down here to the hill country with us when she got older and I was there, buddy. I'd stop by her house. I mean, we were thick as thieves and sometimes it wasn't convenient. I got to tell you, but it's just, I promised her I would be present in her life the last years of her life. And I did that. That wasn't a living man. I'm gonna prove to you that I want to do what I'm saying. it's just going to somebody and saying i'm sorry is not an amend but sometimes they need to hear that too so that's part of it thank you thank you chris it's really hard for me to stay neutral okay this is inherently a traditions question however the set the local central office in my area creates a lot of disunity and arguments about Seventh Tradition contributions. So, can you explain how local central office came to exist alongside the traditional service structure of districts and areas and offer suggested readings to better understand their intended function? Sure. I can give a quick history lesson, but it takes a lot more time than I have, but it's important to realize that central offices and intergroups existed before general service. The general service structure didn't come into play until 1951 for the first general service conference. In a lot of other countries where intergroupes did not exist before general service, intergroupies are part of the general service infrastructure. The first AA office was technically in Chicago. It was Sylvia, keys to the kingdom. You can read that story in the big book. Central offices and intergroups, it's important to realize that not every geographic area has a central office or an intergroup. But those that do, the dividing line is usually wet versus dry work, to be perfectly honest. The wet work belongs to the boots on the ground, the central office and the intergroup, meeting directories, 12-step hotlines, sending volunteers into prisons and treatment centers. The general service side focuses on maybe the employees of those treatment centers, the employees of the correctional facility from a cooperative and professional community. The general services conference focuses on transmitting the annual agenda of the general services conference and then the background material and electing a delegate for a group conscience. But, you know, one time I was picked up at an airport and an area chairperson said to me, you know, intergroups aren't AA. And it was a long car ride, believe me. Whenever anyone says it's not AA, I would usually say to turn around and walk away. This official AA status thing that we want to hold so dearly. But intergroups and central offices do great work every day. And like I said with the last question, it's your group's determination to decide how much money should be sent to each entity based on how much service they do for the group, including not sending any money if you think that they're not doing the right thing. The power of the person, Concept 7 tells you that. But it is a little confusing for sure. Hopefully, most areas and intergroups elect a liaison to the corresponding. So an area might elect a liason to the intergroup or intergroupes inside an area. And those intergroupies may elect a laison to the area so that there's communication flowing in both ways. Thanks. Thank you, Billy. Chris, did early members do four-week basic study of the big book before attending their first meeting? As I understand from the history stuff, it was basically they were qualified. In other words, they were talked to, identified with a member of Outbox Anonymous where they get a third step prayer. I mean, I've read it in several sources and then they were taken to the meetings. It wasn't like today where we had meetings, so many meetings we've got. I mean, they may have just been one meeting a week. So it wasn't a question like this took weeks for them to get ready and then they would go. It was like, you know, but even still there's stories about people who came into the meetings drunk, you know, and were allowed to stay as long as they didn't disrupt the people. You know, they were just there to see what this was about. So I think there's a little fine line there. But we were a lot more back then, it looked like a lot, a lot more focused on this idea of trying to explain what this was about before we got him in the meetings. It's not a bad idea, I suppose, but I think it went both ways in different parts of the country. Thanks. Thank you, Chris. Billy, if you have time to address the concepts, if traditions protect AA's future and guide unity, what level of AA fellowship do the concepts cover and when do we rely on the concepts to guide well let's uh there's an easy phrase that goes something like this the steps are our message the traditions protect our message and the concepts perpetuate our message in other words keep it going we have a duty to keep this going And not badly. If we were all as good at Bill W. as 12-stepping in the winter of 1934 and 35, none of us would be here, right? So an adequate presentation. will the concepts you know listen i get tagged all the time because of positions i've held and but i don't force people to know the concepts in fact the worst thing is people voting at area assemblies who have no experience with traditions the concepts yes can give you great guidance for certain local problems there's no out about it there's great information historically in there but the concepts were written to cover our world service structure about how those three corporations do business now i know especially with the pandemic everybody has to write their own book and everybody needs their own zoom channel right so we have the traditions and relationships we have have the traditions in the business world we have the concept listen if i was going to write a book it would be the concepts of the business role but i'm not writing a book right but it's there's nothing wrong with applying these principles to other things but don't do it in an aa setting do it private setting one-on-one sponsor to sponsee we have more people that have been the traditions and relationships workshops than have been to workshops on the traditions in AA. But the concepts have some great information in there. Like I read that one in concept nine about sponsorship. There's one about the seventh tradition in concept six. It says we can't reach our spiritual aim unless we're first an effective business operation. In other words, not losing money, treating money responsibly. So the concepts are helpful, but I don't want to say they're mandatory for everybody to be an expert in. Chris, my sponsor has saved my life. However, she's recently told me not all of your sponsees are meant to sponsor, so don't push it on them. What are your thoughts on this? I understand this deal with sponsorship. I believe we don't get let off the hook with service, and the old circle triangle, which I wish we had put back in our book, recovery, 12 steps, unity, our fellowship meetings, and service, the service structure. There's lots of ways that we can contribute. I know some people, but I got to say, even if you've got one little protege, your life will change around that. When you're there to think about, you know, that one little person or just it's just something to see them. It's like some are some of us better than others. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We are. It's just like some folks are better in the service structure. You know, I don't have the patience to do what what Carrie and Billy and some of you guys are doing. I just, I'd have to stab them. I don't know. You know, patience and tolerance sometimes is not in my forte, but I do believe that kind of lets the newcomer off. You know? Well, you're not, regardless of how they're doing it, they've got to get into some form of service, regardless. I don'T think the book lets us off the hook. And sometimes that service can be something relatively simple. You know?, you're the coffee maker on Wednesday night. Okay. But at least I can be of service to the group by doing that. But there's something to be said for the people that I've sponsored over the years and watched them grow. I just, I hate to cut anybody out of that opportunity. It is spectacular to watch God work with these people. And it's just nice to be a part of that. So I would suggest that we give everybody at least a chance. Don't dissuade them, but don't be too worried if they're not sponsoring half the people in the group. Billy, I know each group can operate as they wish, but when it comes down to money, I think people should know what their money is going to because I put my money in expecting to go to the four entities. And that's not really a question. There's more than four entities depending on where you live. you could live in some areas where there's an intergroup or central office. There's a district, there's an area, there is a general service board. You know, if we're talking about those four areas, some areas only have three. They do not have a central officer in a group. But I do wholeheartedly agree. If you're putting money in your basket to make your group self-supporting and you're not attending your business meeting to see how your group is spending its money and then see where is your group sending its money then you're giving up your right by apathy you're given you're advocating your right to say where it goes um but i believe in complete transparency regarding all financial transactions at every level of aa i mean at the general service conference the the complete financial report for the year is printed in that final conference report um i i get a little bothered if if when we when we punish people for asking questions it bothers me like somebody doesn't ever write like if i ask to see the treasurer's report or the bank statement i'm accusing somebody of something why not just look at it we should be glad that somebody cares that much about aa but instead what we do is we label anyone that asks a question a troublemaker and you know in concept nine there's not there's no good if you're looking to recruit people into service into general service don't let them read concept nine hide it from them because i just want to tell you what it says Let me just get to that page. Concept eight, concept nine. Hold on one second. There's some things in here that do not sound good. In Bill's finest, some of his finest writing, the Leadership Essay, he says this. There is two, another qualification. Leadership is often called upon to face heavy and sometimes continued criticism. This is an acid test. There are always the constructive critics. We would never fail to give them a careful hearing. we should be willing to let them modify our opinions or change them completely and then how about this if you were worried about doing a service and you thought it was all nice how this then there are those two we call the destructive critics they power drive they politic they make accusations maybe they are violent malicious they pitch gobs of rumors gossip and general scuttlebutt to gain their ends if that was a checklist i could put a check next to every one of those things i mean why we label people troublemakers is crazy to me if someone wants more transparency we should give it to them thank you billy hey this is to both of you you're gonna have to rock paper scissors or figure out who's going first why do you feel zoom meetings or anyone's recovery is less than that that attend live meetings i'll go first real quick i uh don't some of y'all have heard me talk about before because i i remember when they came out you know in the fourth edition and they talked about modem to modem we were going to go burn new york down you know we were gonna we were all gonna march uh to it you know that's ridiculous you can't do this and then push come to shove guys it was a scary it's funny that there are whole people out there that will never experience what we experienced you know in 2019 towards the end when covid hit and we started closing whole communities down and a day clubs were shutting down the churches were kicking us out my deal and all of a sudden but we didn't have any place to go and it was you know it was it was scary you know all of a sudden these little these little nerds got in there and started talking to us about this thing calls the zoom and uh you know and like oh my god what what is and i would never going to do it until i got asked to speak at one and all of a sudden it was the coolest thing in the world i can get up here and look at all these little squares from people all over the world and i can talk to my my buddies and in different countries and you know on the east coast and west coast and you know it and watching people get sober you know now i i correspond with with hundreds of little zoomies that got sober sitting at a zoom meeting um i think god had his hand all over this folks and uh yes i do love my in-person meetings but sometimes when i can't do that it's nice sitting in an airport to be able to pop on a little zoom and see my friends you know get the wave and some buddies even if you're only just for a second there's a little connection there that makes and uh we've gotten good over it over the years last few years y'all remember the first ones were just so i mean they were technically they were just weird as could be you know nobody knew what they were doing and everybody was all messed up we had the bombers everywhere and it was just it was the wild west now you get on and it's just there's some pretty cool i mean i've been touched by some of the formats that people have come up with uh yeah aaa is going to survive billy would you care to share on that uh yeah first of all i will never say that um zoom meetings are better than in-person meetings or in- person meetings are better than Zoom meetings or Zoom groups are better than in-person groups or in- person groups are better than Zoom. In fact, I have a hard time when people use an AA podium to put down other AA. If you want to talk about the AA you love, that's one thing. Why do we need to be negative? Now, do I have a strong, strong belief that this technology, like, yes, I believe AA is like a sponsee. Sometimes it needs a pat on the back, and sometimes it needs a kick in the ass. And this fellowship needed a big kick in the ass regarding technology, especially for accessibility, people that can't drive at night, people that are shut in, people that are sick, inmates that are in a facility that doesn't have an in-person meeting, all kinds of things I could think of. and yes there's sometimes when i have things going on at work that i go to an eight o'clock meeting in the morning on on zoom there's no doubt about it i just don't think that if you are physically capable there's any reason that you shouldn't be going to some in-person aa i think we have a duty to help our community i think our districts and our intergroups and our areas need people in the local geography um what worries it used to worry me more by the way when some groups stayed hybrid just because they wanted famous so-called speakers to be able to come in but you know i just spoke at a really good big book group that i've been to in another country twice in person and when i asked are they going back in person they said no they like all the other cool big book kids from around the world to be able to come to their meeting and why not have that and an in-person like i think about how what a beacon of light that group was and now a newcomer can't walk into it right off the street so while i love the technology. I just don't think that if a person is capable, they should be depriving their community of their presence at in-person AA. Thank you to both of you. Billy, Tradition 8. How do recovery coaches and step coaches get away with charging for it? oh well listen i don't think they have the market on charging for things i mean you can charge for anything you want if it's legal and you can charge anything you want if that's your choice not mine um their business is not aa and that's fine they should get paid an adequate it whatever they're worth the problem is is when they use aa to brand themselves or advertise their recovery business and if it was a sponsor of mine if what you are listen if you're a recovery coach and you're traveling with somebody and making their arrangements or whatever i i can't it into that. You know, here's one of the things I've learned. I'm sure Chris knows this. When I have someone that I know that's traveling, they think I know a lot of people. So they call me or text me and say, I'm going here. Who do you know there? And that's fine if you have a foundation in recovery. If you're a new person or you're trying to help a newperson, I will not do that for you. I want you to make your own phone call to the local inner group. I want you make your phone call, uh, to the local district. I want you get on the website yourself and find how to be a self-sufficient AA member. Um, if you're charging for the 12th step, if you are charging for sponsorship, it just doesn't to me coincide with what's in the big book or what's in our traditions. I mean, I don't know what else I could say. And by the way, you know what? I'm going to share something else. I'm gonna finish. I'm gonna have another part of that. We all know in the world there are Emmys and Grammys and Oscars and Golden Globes and a whole bunch of those. I have a sibling that has a few of them. i just want to let you know you ever hear that thing all the king's men couldn't put humpty dumpty together again yeah well all the recovery coaches in the world couldn't my brother together you know what put my brother together a good old 12-step fellowship with a sponsor so just sharing that thanks for chris you say that fourth column in the fourth step is a mistake i made how did you get to that i get to look at the whole scenario and i get to see what actually happened and then i get to get honest for a few seconds and look at that and say, this is a mistake I made in that scenario. Where I got so confused sometimes is that people hear that and they see that and they think, oh, well, you want us to take responsibility for what happened. So that is not what I'm saying. That is not What I'm Saying. Guys, I've said it yesterday. I mean, there's a whole bunch of us in this gathering that have been absolutely horribly victimized. and uh yeah and in the long run though we look at the whole scenario and look at what happened before or after there was mistakes i made you know i'm i met a guy that i went into business with because he stole a bunch of money from me chris did you know he was a coping addict when you went into бизнес with him uh-huh there that bam you know I should have known what was going to come down and I just you know okay it didn't mean I caused it doesn't mean i deserved to get stolen from just means there was a mistake I made. So if you can see that, you can get free of the whole resentment. I hope that answered it. That was great. Thank you. Billy, why do we pay for speakers accommodations and flight to come share their experience, strength, and hope at a workshop, convention, etc. We don't for group speakers. I am curious. Thanks. Okay. Well, whenever we say we don't per group speakers, that's an overreach based on your experience. There are plenty of groups that have anniversaries and other events that might fund the speaker's travel expenses. GSO has a guideline on conferences and conventions. The rule is, if you're inviting someone to come to your event that would not normally come, and you're asking them to come, then they are reimbursed. They're not paid to speak. They're Not Paid for the 72 hours they're there all weekend. They are reembursed for their hotel, maybe their meals, and their transportation. And it should be a modest reimbursement. I, you know, we don't fly speakers first class and we don'T listen again, though. I want to hold some of these committees guilty and not the speakers. When you send me a letter and say what kind of half and half do I want in my room? I think I can figure that out when I get there. I don't need you going on a special shopping trip for me. If you ask me what kind of water I prefer to drink, I mean, come on. Is this a list for a celebrity in their green room? I mean what has happened to us? We cause as much of this. It's easy to point the finger at speakers but it's the groups that are inviting them that are creating this kind of atmosphere of it's simple. you get your expenses reimbursed. That's it. Okay, and on that note, I would like to thank Chris and Billy for spending this weekend with us and for all your awesome answers to the Ask a Basket questions. I also want to thank everyone that did service this weekend and the members of District 5 and District 9 for all the work that they have put in to making this weekend happen. To wrap up today, I will now turn the floor over to the Workshop Committee Chair, Carrie Bean. Thank you, Jen. My name is Carrie and I am a recovered alcoholic. I am currently serving as DCM for District 5 and I would like to thank all the members of District 5 and District 9 who worked so hard to put this event together. District 9 Alternate DCM Jen, who was the voice this entire weekend. That's a lot of voicing. I thank you, the hospitality chair, Joel, for taking care of announcements this weekend. Actually, that was Mike. Sorry. The hospitality chair Mike for taking care of us announcements this week and Riley GSR from District nine was our spiritual timekeeper taking care the chats this weekend was District five alternate DCM Jamie and Vicki from District five, Joel and his fantastic security team, the outreach committee, registration chair, Tricia from Steps to Sobriety in district five, Mark, Oregon Area 58 IT, who provided entertainment last night, our fabulous prayer chair, Joy, from the page 21 group in district five, and all the hard work that went on behind the scenes putting this weekend together. And finally, I would like to thank both speakers once again for taking the time out of your lives to spend with us this weekend. Your dedication to serving and to carrying this message is inspiring and I hope that each and every one of us who attended this weekend can take something away from this workshop and have the courage and dedication to pass on to others as it was so freely passed on to us this week. A sincere thank you for the message you both carried to us and to close us out one last time i give you our humble prayer chair joy thank you so much carrie thank you jim thank you everybody that's participated your service um just incredible and thank you to speakers this is the last prayer of our workshop god grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change things I can, and the wisdom to know the good news. All right, we can unmute real quick to thank the speakers all at once. And... Thank you all for your service.