The Sponsorship Contract – Came to Believe – Part 4 of 4 – Sandy B.

Thank you very much. So what we're going to do next is I'm just going to talk you through what happens from the point where somebody asks me to be their sponsor to finish in the book work really. So quite often the way it works, I'm going to use Alphabook as well because my one, I got it out this morning and all the pages were falling out I didn't have time to stick them back in because it's a well used book. So the pages in my book are well used and they're kind of stuck in the tape and stuff like that. Maybe that's about my attachment to that particular book, I guess. So I've got Al's book. Thanks, Al. Not that you've... I thought you'd let go of that resentment about the old book. Yeah. So you might be at a meeting or, you know, maybe after the meeting or standing outside the meeting, or you know in the detox unit, or you know, you just answer the phone call from somebody and quite often they might dither around the question. So you know you find blokes that ask how you are you know did you go to the football how was that, how's the wife and like you know when you've been around a while you know what it is they really want to ask you when they start doing some little spiel about how they're stuck in their recovery and things like that and again you know if you've been around a while you know what the question is he really wants to ask it you see I'll never make it easy never I can't enjoy it watch him squirm a little bit because I know he's got to ask you see, I know that's an act of humility to say will you? So then eventually he'd ask the question. I know you're busy Dave but all that and everything and I was wondering if you did have a time and maybe it's possible if we could in the style of Hugh Grant would you be my sponsor? Quite often you find that new people don't have that kind of anxiety actually. So if they're at their second or third meeting and they just come up and ask. They're just new, aren't they? Some of the people that have been around a little bit longer have that kind of anxiety. And I won't say yes straight away. Never. Because when he's asked me... See, sponsorship is like a contract really. And what you need to be clear about in embarking upon a sponsorship relationship is what are the terms of the contract. So when he has asked me will you be my sponsor he's asking either out of desperation or based on his idea of what he thinks the contract is so he'll have an idea about what he think the sponsor is and what he wants from that sponsorship relationship and that could be very different to what I'm actually offering he might be somebody who actually does want somebody who's going to sit and listen to him for an hour a week in an informal counselling session and the people who do, do that I mean as I said earlier on everybody can do whatever they want I really don't mind I don't want to do that so I never say yes what I say is we need to talk about that because we need to be clear about what it is you're expecting from me and what it isthat I offer and usually I find that people are fine with that because actually it helps them They want it actually themselves, they want the terms and conditions of the contract clarified anyway. So I normally arrange to meet them in a couple of days time or whatever on neutral grounds often. I find that first meeting is beneficial. It can be quite intimidating to come to somebody's house and things like that, sort of cold calling. So to meet on neutral ground I find is quite useful for that first meeting. So I meet at the McDonald's or the coffee shop or whatever it is, and we have an initial chat about what it is that's on offer. I usually start that conversation with thanking him for asking me, first of all, because I understand that to ask anybody to be your sponsor is quite a big risk, actually. Especially if you've been around a while and you know what's involved in working the steps and that you're going to be telling people things about yourself and inviting that person into your life on a very kind of intimate kind of basis. So I always thank him for asking me. And then I proceed to tell him what it is I don't offer because I think that's most important, personally. and I start with well I don't offer counselling that's not what I offer in this relationship and if you ask for clarification around that I say well a person centred counselling is really useful in some situations in life I've accessed it in recovery various things and can be really helpful I found it helpful but as a sponsor in AA isn't what I offer. That's not what I offer. So, you know, if you think that's going to be helpful for you, then please go and find somebody who can do that and you can do it as well as. It's not about saying that I want to do the AA steps and that means I can't do anything else. You know, you can deal with the AA steps and you can do personal centre counselling, you can do CBT, you can do psychoanalytic therapy, you can do whatever you want. Actually, that's up to you, isn't it? I mean there's many ways to heal a human being and so I make it clear that I don't offer that. I make It clear that I won't offer him any financial advice I'll explain to him that being as I've been bankrupt in my life I figure that's lost me the right to advise anybody about managing their finances but if he's got problems with his finances then maybe you should go and speak to there's various agencies around that can offer that service for you Citizens Advice Consumer Credit Counseling Service could help you with that kind of stuff I don't offer relationship advice I don' t do that if he's got problems with his relationships usually they have usually the problem is the relationship that they've got or the problem isn't that they haven't got a relationship. Does anybody relate to that? They're both relationship problems, aren't they? I don't offer any advice about that. There are organisations in society that can do that, relate as well. I don' t offer marriage guidance and things like that. I don''t offer marriage guidelines. I'm happily married now but to get to the point where I've been happily married I've had some disastrous relationships So I won't export relationships because I've had loads of them it doesn't mean I can give advice about so I don't offer that kind of advice and then I'll say to them I don' t actually offer any advice at all they'll say what? I don''t do financial advice I don'T do relationship marriage guidance advice and actually I DON'T do any advice outside of that arrangement either I don't do anything they say what do you mean and I say well see my my position with this is that your life's your life decisions you make are your decisions you own them not me I'm not making your decisions for you because then you can come blame me later when they go wrong why would I do that I said also I understand because at the time I've been sober and things I've seen. In some situations you might be the best person to make your decisions rather than somebody else. Some people in AA talk about the sponsor always knowing better and I dispute that. Does he always know better? I've got two psychology degrees and a master's degree in social work and my first sponsor was a gangster who'd read one book. Does he know more about behavioural psychology than me? Probably not. So I allow people to understand that I'm not there to control their life, alright? Now it goes one of two ways. Some people are delighted about that because what they've been worried about is that they're going to lose some kind of autonomy from having a sponsor. And some people are concerned about it because what they want is somebody to take responsibility for them. And there are some people, young men, it's particularly apparent in young men that actually want somebody to tell them what to do. They're seeking that. And then people don't do well under my sponsorship. They tend to end up going somewhere else where they do better. I don't change what I offer based on the person sat across. I offer what I offered because of the reasons I spoke about earlier on today. So I explain to them that their decisions are their own. I won't interfere in that. I then asked them for a couple of things, so you know, the first thing that I ask for is that you will be prepared to go to any lengths in your recovery. And usually they say yes, they don't really know what that means, you know. Anybody know what any lengths means? I didn't know. And then I thought maybe it meant you had to travel a long way, right to the end of the central line or something. I don't know. And I asked him, like my sponsor first asked me, he said, you know, I'm quite happy to do this work with you Dave, if you promise me that when we're finished you'll carry it to another boat. Carry this message. And I ask him that, I say, you Know, I've got prepared to do we just work with you. As long as you say it to me, that when we're finished you'll be prepared to carry this to another bloke. Usually they say yes meaning no for hoping that you can't see the fact that they're lying. It's my experience. Body language is a giveaway. Yes. And you know when I shared the story earlier on about the first bloke that asked me. See, my sponsor said to me, you know, why don't you do it? It might make you learn this program you've been talking about, Dave. But then he also said, do you remember that promise you made me? See? He said, you made a promise, didn't you? Do you remember, son? He said when we finish with this work you'll carry it somewhere else. Now here's your chance. And it was that promise that I made him that enabled me to become a sponsor. I don't think I would have done it otherwise. You know? It was to pay my debt to him. Through doing that, that first time, I was able to then do it some more and experience the joys that come from inviting them other people into my life. I'll get him to say that. I ask him if he's prepared to do that. I ask him for anonymity in sponsorship. There are two reasons why I do that The first one is kind of redundant now really, but years ago in AA I got quite unpopular. Lots of people didn't really like me very much and to the point that I used to get death threats from other sober members of the fellowship. So I wouldn't want the people that I work with to have to experience that. I say, look, to protect yourself if someone asks you who your sponsor is, just tell them it's none of their business. And then the second reason is about my ego. So, you know, I don't want to be in a position where I'm the big I am with all these sponsees thinking that I know everything. See, nobody knows who our sponsor is. It's very difficult perhaps to occur. So I ask for that anonymity. But the bottom line is, you know, people who are asking you who your sponsor is, well it's none of their business really, is it? There are some people who like to use the sponsor like a top trump card. Do you know what I mean? You talk in your meetings in AA and so-and-so says and so-and-so says, well my sponsor's this person, oh yeah, but I've got this person. He goes 270 miles an hour whereas your one only goes Do you know what I mean? It kind of helps prevent that as well. So then he's sitting there and he even wants to do it or he doesn't. That's the reality, isn't it? I explain what I offer. I say what I offer, so this is what I don't offer these are the things I require from you and this is What I Offer that's a journey through the book Alcoholics Anonymous I would expect you to come to me once a week and we will read through this book and as we go through the books we will take the actions that the book suggests sounds quite simple and then we might have some general conversation and he's quick keen often to proceed straight away or to give me an answer that you know it's quite difficult to say no when somebody's sitting across from you alright so I'm aware of that so I say to him look don't give me your answer now alright go home sit on it for two days couple of days 48 hours my mate Dan always used to say think on something for 48 hours before you make your decision but a lot of things change in 48 hours and then give me a call we'll see where we go a lot of time you know they ring up and they say I wanted to ring you yesterday and I really want to do it but I have had a few people that after thinking about it for 48 hours have realised that isn't really what they want from that relationship with a sponsor they want something different and they continue to seek that they'll find someone else to facilitate that. So if everybody did exactly the same thing I think in some way, shape or form AA would be diminished by that. So if anybody did it exactly the way that I did it there'd probably be a whole load of people that that really wouldn't be effective for actually. So it's about for me it's abut remembering that and encouraging that man then to find where he needs to go. you know and if he asks me I might offer him some suggestions you know and say that's not really what I'm looking for what I am interested in is this so maybe you should go to this meeting or I've got this bloke here this number maybe you should bring him you know that kind of stuff and then we'll arrange to meet the following week I usually only meet with people for no longer than about an hour and a half and my experience the reason why that is is that my experience working with people is that's pretty much the limit of anybody's concentration span especially when they're new you're lucky to get an hour a half hour I used to and I've done a few times when the situation has warranted it taking through taking people through the program in a day done that a couple of times one of those friends of mine in other fellowships who do that. It can be a valid way of doing stuff. I think often what goes wrong down the line is that that person doesn't have a structure that they can pass on and often they don't make very good sponsors themselves. So I think that meeting with people in a structured way over a course of weeks, I've found, then gives them some kind of framework which they can rely on when they're frightened to do it as a sponsor. You're not having to rely on their memory of one day's events. So we meet the first time and the first sit-downs, often he's a bit nervous, you know, he'll come round, we'll have a cup of tea, make a cup of tea and have some general conversation. He's got his big book. I used to make a point, I think I heard Cliff Bishop, he was saying that if people don't turn up with a big book, he'd send them home. And then, so I did that once. Some bloke turned up once. He didn't have his big book with him and I sent him home. And I'm sitting there thinking, stupid, I've got four big books on the shelf. So, you know, I don't do that. But, you know, I understand the principle of that. Are you coming prepared to do what we're supposed to be doing? You know, carrying a big book in your hand is an indication that you are coming with that intention. But my wife's in the fellowship, we've got loads of big books. Haven't we? So anyway, we sit down and we start reading The Doctor's Opinion. And a lot of big book sponsors start with a preface and the four words. In fact, I think most big book sponsors do that. That I know. The reason The reason I don't, is that my experience has shown me that quite often I'll only see somebody once, for whatever reason. So I think that if I'm only, I always go with never knowing whether this person's going to make it. If I don' t, you know, I've got no idea what the outcome's going to be for anybody. So I always think of how, what's the thing that I can give him that's going going to be most helpful if I only see him once. It's probably the information in the doctor's opinion. It's probably the most useful beyond me. So we read through the doctor'S opinion and I think one of the arts of being a sponsor in recovery who's been around a while is to try and always remember where the new man is. I can't actually put myself in his place because it's physically impossible to do that. But I can remember what it was like not to understand what the book was talking about. And I couldn't, and I'm well educated. I couldn' really grasp the concepts that the book is all about. So when you've been around a while and you've kind of maybe read the book hundreds of times there's lots of meetings and you got elaborate ideas around some of the things in the book lots of things highlighted in your book and underlined things that are important it can be difficult to keep it simple for the new man. So, the way that I do that, the way I endeavour to do that is I just read the words on the page. No more, no less. I don't have elaborate discussions about certain sentences and what they may or may not mean. I don' t talk about the history of certain lines or things like that. Or that may have changed from the first edition to the second edition. What that may or may not have meant to Clarence Schneider in 1939. I'll just read the words on the page. And then what I've realised is that people's understanding even comes from being able to read that or not. You get an opportunity all the time to reinforce learning. So, I read through it once with them. And I do the reading, you know. And the reason I do that is that what I've found... I know some sponsors they share the reading so they do a page each and stuff like that. You know, that's perfectly valid. But what I have realised over the years is that quite often some people are anxious about reading. Some blokes I've worked with over the year haven't been able to read at all when they come the way home. Things like that. I take pressure off of them when I do the reading. Also they need to be able to listen and try and absorb some of that information. Not be concentrating on being able to pronounce a word properly. Worrying about what I might think of them if they stumble over a word, things like that I try and be considerate of that and I just do the readings. So then the challenge as a sponsor is how many times have I read the doctor's opinion? Hundreds. You see, I can read the doctor's opinion and if I'm not practising presence I can be doing my shopping list having an argument with Leanna and read at the same time. It's great. But what it gives me is an opportunity always just to practise presence. Because I'm doing this out of service. So I'll just do it and I'll read it and it's about me being present with that with that new person. I'll then elaborate on a couple of sections, after we've read through it once, to talk about the phenomenon of craving. So it says on XXVIII, we believe and so suggested a few years ago that the action of alcohol in chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy, that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker. These allergic types can never safely use alcohol in any form at all. Once having formed the habit, the family cannot break it. Once having lost their self-confidence, their reliance upon human beings, their problems pile up and they become astonishingly difficult to solve. And it says on the following page, All these and many others have one symptom in common. They cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving. This phenomenon, as we have suggested, may be the manifestation of an allergy which differentiates these people and sets them apart as a distinct entity. It has never been, by any treatment with which we are familiar, permanently eradicated. The only relief we have to suggest is entire abstinence. And I will then just tell him a couple of stories. Most of you will have heard my stories if you've been in meetings with me. I use very simple stories. I'll talk about my train station experiences. My inability to get home at night. who once having started to drink had a craving for becoming parallel in my life to other concerns meaning that I was unable to do what I probably intended to do before I started to think and the reason why I picked the simple stories is to avoid the kind of war story top trump thing that we do because everybody will identify if you're an alcoholic everybody will identity with lack of control when you start to drink having a lack of controlling over the amount that you drink Not everybody will identify with going to prison, beating your wife, crashing the car, losing the job. That stuff happens as a consequence of being unable to control you now. It's about the key things about control. I never talk about the quantity that I drink because I understand that for people they're hooked up on that when they first come in. The definition that most mainstream sources use of an alcoholic would be in some way, shape or form based on quantity. So there'd be like safe limits of alcohol that you can drink, and unsafe limits that you can't have. Unit things that the government likes to promote and stuff like that. And so I never talk about quantity. I never say that I drank two bottles of this or whatever. I just talk about not being able to control it. And what you'll find is that if you can use the simple language, they'll identify if they are and if they won't, they won' t. Of all the people I've worked with, I've only ever had two people that I've got to this point with that haven't been able to identify the phenomenon of craving. So that suggests to me that, and one of them came back later, so probably one, or no one. I think the cases of mistaken identity in our fellowship are quite low. Quite low. I think in our society in England we have a very socially acceptable tolerance of alcoholic drinking. So if you've got a problem with alcohol and you've ended up in AA, you're probably quite bad. Very few cases of mistaken identity in my experience. So that would be the first meeting, and then I'll send him away with an exercise, which is not in the book but I think it's helpful, is that I will ask him to write down a couple of experiences in his life when the phenomenon of craving become paramount in his So that's a couple of times when he's gone out to drink, expecting to come home at a certain time or do something different. Just two experiences. I'll get him to write down the five most insane things he's done whilst drunk. You know, crashed a car, got arrested, Broke into a kebab van. That's me. Stole a camel. That's not me. And then the last part is to consider. I ask him to consider the possibility that he might be the average temperate drinker. You notice in one of the little paragraphs I just read from the big book Dr Silkworth's Opinion it talks about this allergy, this phenomenon of craving differentiating us from the average temperature drinker it never occurs in them so the average tempere drinker never not once in his life experiences that phenomenon of craving ever So I'll get the new man to consider that, and I'll say don't just give yourself a straight answer straight away. You know, sit with it. Ask yourself the question over and over. And what that's designed to do is to... because you're either one or the other. You've either had an abnormal craving in your life which means you're the alcoholic of the type described in this book or you haven't. So is it possible that you could be the average temperate drinker? And by thinking about that, he may be able to surrender to the idea that he's an alcoholic. Helps with that. I'll get him to come back the following week and then the following week we do chapters 2 and 3 together. The reason why we missed Bill's story is because again, like I spoke about before I might only see him twice. If you come back the second time there's no guarantee he's going to come back the third time. So what's the next most important information I can give him? Chapters 2 and 3. So I've given him the first part in the first week the physical. Second part, second week is the mental. See, Chapter 2 introduces us to this concept that if the problem was just physical, all you'd have to do is choose not to drink and it would be alright, mate. That's it, isn't it? If you've just got physical, you've got the allergy going on, choose not to do it. Don't come to AA, Bob's your uncle. Before we do the reading I'll get him to tell me his two things that he's written down about his phenomenon of craving. Just to get him thinking about his drinking story. See and the reason I do that early on is partly so that he can start to create a narrative around that. Because what makes you most effective later on as a sponsor if you've got a clear understanding of your own drinking story. If you haven't, you'll never be able to help people in here. That's my experience. So lots of really spiritual people who don't understand their drinking story can't really help people in here Now read through chapter 2 and on page 24 we sort of spend a little bit of time thinking about the fact is that most alcoholics for reasons yet obscure have lost the power of choice in drink. The so-called willpower becomes practically non-existent. We are unable at certain times most important to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago we are without defence against the first drink. I'll tell you about my experiences at the train station. There were times I walked across the concourse at London Bridge and I think to myself, I'm going to the Oast House on the corner there have a pint, worked hard today but I wouldn't. I'll say no. I know what happens when I go in there I drink until I can't control it and I end up with the last train home falling asleep, waking up in Ramsgate I don't want to do that but I won't go in that. Maybe a few days will go past and I'll be walking across the concourse at London Bridge and the thought will pop in my mind you've got five minutes till your train comes though you could have a quick pint It'll be like a little seesaw moment. Maybe that's not such a good idea, you know, but one won't hurt. At that moment, I was unable to bring into my mind the sufficient force in memory of the suffering of even a week or a month ago. Simple stories. Keep it simple for people. We get through that chapter so I've introduced him to the idea of the insane twist in the mind that precedes the first drink in chapter two, which is the intention of chapter two. And it outlines in chapter two that there is a solution to that. It outlines that the solution to this is spiritual nature. At the end, when we finish chapter two we normally make a cup of tea and I'll get him to tell me his five most insane things that he's written down from the week before. And he said something like, well I was in Ibiza and I had a few drinks and I beat my mate up. I was really ashamed of myself. We just had a row about nothing, can't even remember what it was about and we had a fight And in the falling dark I remember thinking to myself, I ain't going to drink again. It was awful. I said alright okay, sounds bad. So did you drink again after that? He said yeah I did, I did have a drink again So the next time you picked up a drink what were you thinking? He said, what do you mean? What was I thinking? I don't know. He said I don' t really know. I said, think about it. The moment before you picked up that first drink, what was going through your mind? I don´t know. I just thought I was going to have a drink. Enjoy myself and have a night out. So what were you thinking about beating your mate up? Were you thinking that you were going to go out tonight and kick the shit out of your mate again? No. No, it wasn't. It wasn't in my mind. Okay. I'll get them to tell me another one. Got arrested for drink driving. Lost my licence, which meant I lost my job. That's serious, isn't it? Did you drink again after that? Oh yeah, I had a drink. I had to drink the next day. So what were you thinking when you had a drink the last night? What was going on? Well, before I had a drink, I said, yeah. He said, I just wanted to get rid of the hangover. I said... What are you thinking about what the consequences might be if you're having another drink? He said... No. No, not really. No, no, not at all. Then he says... I said.... What's the next one? Oh, that's a bad one. He says... I got drunk in blackout and beat my wife up. Shamed myself on that. He said.... I told her I wasn't going to drink again after that. I said, did you drink again? Oh yeah, he said, I did drink again. I didn't drink for a couple of weeks. I said what was going through your mind when you picked up a drink the next time? He said, well I just ended up in the pub with my mate and he offered me a drink and I took one. I said well what were you thinking? He said I just thought I'd have a drink. I said was you thinking about your wife or what might happen after you drank? He said no. I'm starting to introduce him to start to think about the mindset of a chronic alcoholic. I'll suggest to him that the most insane thing he's done in his life isn't them things at all that he's written down. He's going back and having another drink after doing them things. the most insane thing for the alcoholic is that he will drink again thinking this time it will be different or not really remembering what happened last time in its full clarity and as the ledge starts to shake now fucking hell he's going what, what, What? If you know this stuff You learn it And you get good Fluent with your own stories You can make You can enable A surrender moment In people With these chapters They're most important Don't skip them See Sponsorship for me Really took off When I started doing All of this stuff at that I used to think The important stuff Came in steps 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 it isn't. Most important stuff in this book is step one. Which is why most of it's about step one I never think it's a waste of time So anyway we then move on to chapter three and isn't it spinning a bit now and chapter three piles it on piles it on fantastic chapter you know we go through that chapter it defines alcoholism you know so the first step is to concede that you're an alcoholic which is what we're doing with him now we're teaching him what alcoholism is yeah gives two relapse examples in that chapter a guy called Fred a guy called Jim one of the big myths in the fellowships is that you're going to get a warning. And often some of the language that we've used in the fellowships has enabled people to think that that's the case. We talk about the condition being a physical allergy and a mental obsession. The problem with using that language is, first of all, it's not in the book. In one of the four words it's used is praise mental obsession But in the main text, it's not used as that. The mental part of our condition isn't called a mental obsession. It's called no effective mental defence. And the reason why it can be misleading is that people relate that language to the idea of other types of obsession that they have. Obsession with a girl, a football club, the preoccupation with it. I think about it a lot. It's on my mind a lot, I'm obsessed with it, It's all I think about. So often they say, you in the rooms, your obsession has been removed. Actually feels safe doesn't it? Obsession's been removed, don't go on it no more, don' t think about it anymore, it's gone. Which is nice, but it isn't that that makes you pass. The danger with thinking that it was that kind of thinking that makes you powerless is going to lead you into a false sense of security and make you think that you'll get a warning before you drink, that I wake up one day, it will be all over me like a rash. I'll be obsessing about it and I'll have to open my meetings and ring my sponsor. Wilson smashes that in chapter 3. Smashes it to bits. There's two examples. A guy called Jim. He got up in the morning, no intention of drinking. Wasn't all over him like a rash, just went into a roadside place that sold liquor. I think we called them pubs, didn't we? And he had a sandwich looking for a customer. I don't know, do you sell cars in pubs? I don' t know. And the thought popped in his mind that as long as he mixed it with milk he could have a whisky. Just a momentary thing at that moment. See at that moment Jim was unable to bring into his mind with sufficient force the memory of the suffering of even a week or a month ago, and he picked up a drink. And he'd just done six stints in the asylum. Jim. You know, he ain't having a good time. He ain't been having a good time with the drinking. You know. Momentary thing. No warning. Fred. Fred, not clouding the horizon for Fred. End of a perfect day. Right? Oh, Fred, he's loving it, isn't he? He's having a great day. A couple of cocktails with dinner won't hurt. Maybe a highball. I thought, as he crossed the hotel lobby, no intention of drinking that day, none. If you can read through this stuff, with that man already in a position of kind of starting to understand the mindset of a kind of alcoholic, You can watch him surrender in front of your very eyes. I've seen it happen. I've see it happen to people with 20 years sobriety, been in AA for 20 years, sat with me with this book, surrendering in front my eyes, weeping their eyes out, not understanding how they've been able to stay sober as long as they have. He often leaves this meeting feeling a bit deflated. But I say to him, it's okay. It's alright you know. He said why? Because we've got a solution. We're alright. We're going to do alright. Do you think this is true for you? Yeah it is. Now I can see now clearly that when I started to drink I had no control. When I stopped I had not power not to start again. He comes back the following week, we do Bill's story. We're going backwards now, so he's got the important stuff and we go through Bill's story. Through Bill's Story, we read through Bill story and I'll point out to you in Bill's story that the various occasions where Bill's relapsed, experienced no choice, and when he started to drink and got no control. I know some of you get hooked up on this kind of idea of the alcoholic personality and the defects of character stuff. And although that might be true for you, it's not really an important part of this for the newcomer. The early chapters of the book talk about drinking. What he wants when he comes here is not to drink. The following week we do chapter four, which is We Agnostics or We Antagonists, as it's sometimes known. and this introduces the idea of a higher power. So we've completely smashed him and deflated him in them early chapters. He's maybe got some understanding of what's wrong with him and now we're going to start to introduce to him the ideaof what his solution is. I have to go back, sorry. When I had that meeting with him in McDonald's I'd give him the daily suggestions. So he's praying every day, he's writing a gratitude list, he's reading the big book. I suggest that he rings me. I don't insist on it. Some people do. I've only ever had one bloke all the years I've done this who rang me every day throughout the course up to step nine. Everybody else has missed or stopped doing it. It's there if you want it. It can be a useful thing to get into the habit of ringing your sponsor. I think especially for men because quite often I'm not likely to ring you when I'm in trouble. I'm too prideful. If I'm in the habit of ringing someone I'm more likely to ring somebody if I'm having a difficult time So we agnostics we start to introduce the concept of the power greater than yourself being able to solve all of your problems not just your alcohol problem The book says it says God solved all your problems Big promise isn't it? The following week we do chapter 5. So, we'll read through. Every time the bloke comes back I'll ask him two questions as soon as I answer the door. I'll say to him Why is it not safe for you to drink alcohol? He'd say what? When he first did it. He'd said I don't know. They say, is it because when you put alcohol into your system you trigger off this phenomenon of craving which means that you find it difficult to control and moderate the amount that you drink? And he says, yeah, that's it. I said, give me an example of that. And he's written out to you earlier on. And he'd say, oh, you know, I used to go out to the pub Friday night and I'll do this. He's starting to learn his story. And I say to him, why is it that you're unable just to rely on choosing to leave it alone? Why is that? Is it because of the strange defence spot? When you know this stuff, you don't forget it. But to learn it seems to be really difficult. And sometimes it takes some of my blokes up to the ninth step to be fluent with their understanding of the first step. I reinforce the learning every time I see them or ask them How much alcohol is it safe for you to drink? When they say none, I say, why is that? What happened the last time you chose not to drink ? What happened here? He's teaching him to get fluent with his story. Because I know that when it comes to him helping others, that's going to be the key. So chapter 5, next meeting, we go up to the step 3 stuff, and then we do the step 2. Step 3 prayer together. I don't over elaborate that there's no big song and dance about it we just read the words and say the prayer I don' t like to dramatise this stuff it's quite a matter of fact about it I think it's a textbook it's the course isn't it we then go through the rest of the chapter we have a chat about inventory I'll print him off some copies of the inventory sheets that I use for the people at this stage and I'll show them out to fill them in. And I'll send him on his way, tell him to come back the following week. And this was an extra week that I introduced because if I sent people away with the inventory sheets and then they'd be filling them in happily and then they'd turn up to do their fifth step and they'd done it all wrong. You know, got the wrong end of the stick, putting things in the wrong column. Things like that. So I always get them back the follow-up week. I tell them to write out a couple and come back and see me so that I can shape it up for them To make sure that, otherwise it's such a waste of time for them. So they write a couple out, they come back, and when they're back on that visit that week, we go through the preface and the four words. So we use that session for that. A lot of really helpful stuff in there. Really good gear in that stuff. I'll shape up the inventory for them, tell them about the importance of having a concise second column. By far the biggest mistake in inventory writing I see on a regular basis is too much information in the second column. Second column is one sentence, no more. If there's a comma in there it's too long. If it's two sentences it's Too Much. More than one sentence is even more than one resentment or self-justification. One of them two things. Sometimes people don't want to write the fact. They want to write how they feel about that fact and the reasons why they did what they did and how it was unfair. The trouble is, if you can't write a concise second column, your third column would be inaccurate and your fourth column would mean misleading. You only get a limited amount of freedom from that. Second column's the key to writing good in time. People talk an awful lot about the fourth column, don't they? Second columns are key, in my experience. What it also means is that if you get them right in concise second columns you don't have to listen to hours upon hours of self-justification when you listen to their fifth step. It's a win-win situation, eh? I learnt that from experience. Being holed up in rooms with people wanting to tell me why it's everybody else's fault. Normally people are a bit, you know, so I say to them how long do you think it's going to take you to write this full step? And they think, there you see the little cog to turn in. How long can I get away with my thinking? But they know by now that asking for a year I was saying it's completely out of the question. Sometimes they go the other way and they think, I need to demonstrate my worth here. I'll have it done next week though. Well, it's entirely possible you could write it in a week but maybe you want to give yourself a little bit more of a window. Some people think, oh, I'll ask for free three months. I say, well, you know, in my experience six weeks is about the average. I'll just say it like that. In my experience, six weeks is about the average. If he still wants three months, he can have three months. Generally speaking, people say, OK, six months, two months. And I get them to give themselves a deadline. Not imposed by me. So I say, so what day do you think you're going to have this finished on? And we put it in the calendar and that'll be the day that we do the fifth step. Oh, I didn't expect you to do that. Oh no, it's important. We need to have a... You know, because I'm busy. I need to make sure that my time's planned. So we book the day in. What it gives people is a self-imposed deadline which is important. Because if it's open-ended, if you're anything like me, they won't do it. Do it at the last minute, do it the night before don't you? Before the deadline. Most people. Frantically writing out your sheets five minutes until the sponsor comes round. So we've arranged to do the fifth step, and I hear people talking about doing the fifth step with a driver in the car and things like that, and you know, I'm sure it's entirely possible to do things like. I think it talks in the book about it being a life or death errand, life or death serious business, eh? Life or death, errand. And so I'll give it a bit of reverence really, so I don't over-dramatise the text but I treat the fifth step process with a bit of sacredness really. I give it a bit respect, and I ask a man where he'd like to do it. I say to him there are some places that often I go with people where we do it, you can go there if you want, if you rather do it at home or happy to come to you. It's the one time I'll go to them, and they'll do what they want. Be comfortable. Quite often we go down to Aylesford or somewhere like that, where he won't have a place that he wants to go to. I'll ask him when he's coming up to that finishing point, how many sheets have you got? See, I've got good at this now. I know how long it takes. He says 562. Oh, fuck! It's a nightmare, isn't it? And then you know never nearly anywhere near that 50 is probably about the average 50 pieces of inventory some people have a couple of hundred I've had blokes that have literally had half a dozen pages of A4 that's it and you know what the difference that that makes in a person's recovery seems to me to be none right what it's about is whether you've given it your best shot, done it to the best to your ability, not left anything out on purpose. Inventory is an acquired skill. I never criticise people's inventory at this point. When I'm listening to their inventory, I don't tut and say, oh you've messed up the columns. I just sit and I listen. A lot of people have had judgement all their life. Not been good enough at school, not been good genug for the teachers, not been good enough for the prison, not be good enough for this, that and the other. The last thing they need from their sponsor is another kick in. It's the last thing they need. Inventory is an acquired skill. I've got good at inventory, provided lots of inventory over many years. They've got time to grow and learn. I don't need to kick them to death now. So I listen. Before we start, I share my experience with the fifth step. I'll tell them a couple of things about me that I've withheld or tried to withhold from my first sponsor as a way to show them that I'm prepared to be entirely honest and that now you have information on me as well, maybe you'll feel more comfortable sharing with me. And then I listen. And whilst they're reading, I make two lists on my notepad. I make a list of the character defects and I make an answer for them. I make the list of their harms that they cause to others. Just the names. we'll be pulling that out as they're reading through that fourth step, that fifth step after they've finished reading the fifth step I present them with the list of defects of character and we read through the steps six and seven reading in the book I then send them away for an hour on their own to think about what they've done and to ask themselves the question whether they've missed anything out because they're building an archway for which they will walk to a new freedom. They sit for an hour. Sometimes that would be in St. Jude's Chapel down at Elspeth. If you've never sat for an hours on your own in a quiet place it would be a really long time. I'll leave them in there for an our and then I'll go and pick them up. I'll say, alright, okay, so where are we now with this? And defects on that list are you willing for them to go? and we discuss maybe ones that they aren't. Share some experience around that with my defects. Ask them if they missed anything. Sometimes they have, often not intentionally. Just that whilst they've been sitting there for that hour something's become apparent to them as they've being thinking that they missed in that written process and we share that. and after we've had that little chat, we walk into one of the chapels or we do it in the lounge or wherever we are by the settee and we'll kneel together and say the Step 7 prayer. So one day, that's all. It's often just a few hours. Steps 4, 5, 6 and 7. As we're going away or driving home as I'm leaving I'll give them the Step 8 list that I drew out as they were reading. I'll tell them to come around the following week come around the following week we do the step 8 and 9 reading in the big book I'll give them some sheets that I've written for them to prepare their step 8 inventory on and the way that I look at that now is that there's four columns in that I like four columns the first column is about the person or the institution that you cause harm to the second column is the nature of the cause of the harm did you interfere with their self esteem their relationships their ambitions and their emotional security do you steal money and the third column is about how did that affect you so this is to get people thinking about when we harm others actually it has an effect on us there is no free ride I didn't realise that if I harm other people it affects me then I'll get them to consider what it would have been like if somebody had done what they've done to them. Walk a mile in that other man's shoes. What would it have been like? How would you have felt if someone had done that to you? And the point of that exercise is it's a willingness tool. Just to shift the consciousness another little degree so that you can become entirely willing to do those step nine amends. And I come around with that piece of work and we go through them all one by one and we discuss the options for making amends and there's three ways of making aments. There's direct amends wherever possible as guided by the book. There's indirect amends where that's not possible. Sometimes you can do both. Indirect amends can be ongoing. And when even empty things are possible, you can hand it over to your higher power. We discuss each situation in turn using the guidance in the book and my experience. We draw up a list of action, plan of action for the man to carry out. One word of caution I'd give to all new sponsors you don't have to have all the answers if you don' t know at that meeting what you think is the right course of action sit with it, both pray on it for a couple of weeks take some counsel from somebody else there's no emergencies in AA as such in that amends process a few weeks here or there ain't going to make much difference some of my amends are outstanding for 20 years because they happened a long time ago so waiting a few week either side of that it's not going to makes much difference I think it's where sponsorship comes into its own in that step nine you know, I think my sponsor was useful, very useful some of the guidance that he gave me was life changing so we learn this stuff as we go along hand in hand, shoulder by shoulder with the new man, we work together I became a good sponsor through being a sponsor I didn't start off as a great sponsor I did my best it goes and makes them amends now I start to eke out the time between our meetings see I talked earlier on about there being a dependency or a potential for dependency because of the power imbalance in the relationship so I start to increase the length of time between our meeting he used to come around every week that's what he's been doing pretty much So the next meeting will be in two weeks and then the next one after that will be three weeks and the next week after that it'll be four weeks and then it'll six weeks, then it'd be eight weeks and then I won't see him probably, unless he wants to. I'll gradually ease myself out of their life. So the next meeting we do steps 10 and 11 together in the big book and I'll give him daily inventory sheets talk to him about following step 11 guidance in the Big Book and send him away to work with that. Often that initial practice I'll give him for four weeks. He'll come back in four weeks' time. We do chapter seven, talk about working for others and I'll keep him a new practice with the step eleven stuff. And I'll kick that going really for as long as they want to do it. I sit with people and teach them meditation. That's the way that I do that. I found that when I used to say to people go and find some sources of meditation and practice meditation, they'd never do it. So I found that for me, I had to sit with them and show them how to do that. I offer them books that have been useful to me. So quite often in that meeting when we're doing the Step 7 reading, they'll walk away from my house with a Meditation for Dummies book. You know, there was a bloke that I worked with and I was around his house and he was about eight months sober he said I read this really excellent book on meditation Dave I said oh yeah yeah Meditation for Dummies have you ever read it and I thought does he know who he's talking to but you know I kept my cool been on retreats in yoga and eight years of yoga and all that kind of stuff I'm thinking to myself what are you saying I should read Meditation for Dummies but he lent me his copy and I drove off with it and I got home and started reading it it was really good have an open mind a bloke eight months sober can teach me absolutely when my dad died the bloke that helped me the most was only six weeks sober so I'll give that book I'll pass it on I bought a job lot of them on Amazon. I charge people for the books. I don't give them, because I can't afford to do that. So you can have this book, but you've got to pay me for it. Pay me when you've go the money. Because otherwise you could end up in a situation where the sponsee down the line thinks he has to give them away. It's a financial burden and he might be skint. I mean, I can probably give away a few books, books, I'm completely broke. I wouldn't want to pass that on as a message to that other person. And we continue down that path. We talk about chapter 7 and I'll talk to him when we read through that chapter about the context of that chapter and how things changed in AA. See, when that chapter was written in 1939 the route into AA for most people was that they'd worked the program so there'd be 12 steps at the side of a bed by an AA member and quite often they'll have worked the steps before even attending the meeting. That would have been their experience when they came to meetings to bear witness about what had happened to them. Nowadays, the vast majority of people that come to AA come either via the telephone service or treatment centre and their first contact is generally at the meeting I don't know there's very few people that I've met in my years of recovery that have actually worked the steps before going to an AA meeting. So the way things that are delivered now are slightly different to the way that they used to be. And in some way, shape or form, my belief is that the meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous need to try and replicate that process that the man at the bed used to do in Chapter 7. So the meeting's about trying to promote what the condition is, what the understanding of that condition is offering the man hope that there maybe is a solution and that solution might be spiritual. the role of the meeting becomes more important now than ever before. And often what we find is that if you have meetings like that and can promote that, often people would then ask for help in the form of a sponsor and then that stuff can occur like it used to in the old days. But it's changed now. It's never going to go back. So we work with what we've got. I personally think it's better actually. So many roots into AA now, that's a wonderful thing isn't it? Absolutely wonderful. You don't have to rely on some random bloke turning up at the side of your bed at the end of your life in a liver unit. And then I'll send him away with a different type of meditation maybe after that meeting practice for a few weeks, get some experience with a different way of meditating and getting back in six weeks time when we do the chapter to the wife, family afterwards we do and the vision for you. I don't normally go through the chapter to the employer. I have in recent times not going through the chapter to their wife as well but I do promote that they read that on their own time. I'll read through the family afterwards with them and I'll read through division for you and then what you find is that process all together takes normally about three to four months. And then it might be that after that, you'd have some various sit-downs with meditations and inventories and stuff like that. But gradually I'll increase the period of time between contact. So I'm constantly easing the man away from me, helping him to rely on his tools of recovery. And then for a lot of people that's all they want. There's been many, many men that I've sponsored who've never wanted anything additional to that. So my involvement with them has been like for three, four, five months. And they've gone on and lived their life but I don't hear from them anymore. There are some people that have wanted ongoing sponsorship in the form of spiritual guidance and I'll offer them the stuff that I found useful to myself. I always encourage people to follow their own conscience as well. You know, I don'T think that this stuff's about any kind of rigidity for me. You know if you pick up a book that inspires you just because your sponsor's not read it or not recommended it doesn't mean it's harmful. It's about what you want to do with that. I will pass on things that I've found useful and work with people for as long as they want me to, really. Other ways of writing inventory, different ways of doing stuff that I have learnt over the years extended third column processes ways of looking at some of that spiritual managing stuff that we call in AA current agnosticism around various behaviours and things like that have nothing to do with drinking. They are often about later recovery and ongoing change through that spiritual awakening. And I pass on everything that I know, free of charge. It costs nothing. Marvellous isn't it? What do I get out of that? I get to be free. I get grow with people. I don't impose myself. Sometimes I do think that some people would be better off if they read certain books, things like that. But I'm mindful of the fact that it's up to them. They don't have to. Somebody gave me a copy of The Paranow and the bloke who gave it to me was only a year sober so I stuck it on the shelf. It was on my shelf for three years, that book. And one day I picked it up started to read it and it changed my life. So I'm aware that for people things come in their own time often. See there are blokes that I've worked with, I've had no contact with for a few years maybe, one day they turn up on the drive, come here for a coffee and we start again. It's a new deal. As long as they want it, I'll never bring it to them. I encourage people to seek a new experience. You know, some blokes, I actually think I've been sponsoring them far too long. They should probably go somewhere else but I would never say that to them. Because it's up to them Some of my best friends in the world are people that I've sponsored. That can be, you know, sometimes you think what does that dynamic look like? And for me it's really not been a problem. It really hasn't. The best man at my wedding was a bloke that I sponsored and I'm going to be the best man his wedding next year. For me, it's never been a problem, that stuff. We journey together, shoulder by shoulder, arm in arm, with a fellowship. Fellowship grows up around us. I've played small parts in lots of people's recovery, large parts in some people's discovery. Sometimes I sit back in awe at what God can do through us. See blokes recreate their life. Blokes who had nothing going on at all. They end up back in employment. End up getting a qualification. End up being married. Moving to other countries, experiencing different things in life. Clean and sober. Twelve-stepping their family members. They carry a message to other people and it just grows. Wonderful. You could miss it if you're not careful. It's up to you. Do you want that or not? That's all that's required. There need be no fear around being a sponsor. Just use the book. Just use it. Use the book, do what the book says. If you're uncertain ask somebody else. Have a go. If you really want to help people, you'll find people to help. You will, they'll come to you and you will help them. you'll see people recreate their lives I was at a meeting last night and there was a couple of people that I hadn't seen for 7 or 8 years we used to knock around together years ago it was just marvellous catching up on what happened in the last 7 or 9 years in these people's lives and my life how we're living so what is all this about why are we here what are we doing in this room what's the point of all of this nonsense I've been talking about it's so that you can live your life with the least amount of personal suffering who wants that deal I'll do talking to these folk last night it was great it was fulfilled with joy just having oh you're doing this you're working now that's fantastic brilliant isn't it hopeless alcoholic I was hopeless no direction no purpose didn't know what life was about didn't really want it angry resentful completely self-centred self-absorbed put the world over your living arrogant I've got a purpose in my life purpose see if you're ever in any doubt this will be my last line thank God they were so if you're ever in any doubt what God's will is for you today the twelfth step will tell you and what it says is having had spiritual awakening as the result of these steps we try to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs that's it that's my purpose if we live in that my life is wonderful thanks for listening applause music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music Thank you.