Step 12 and Giving It Away – Big Book Workshop – Eufaula, AL – Part 10 of 11 – Jim P.

And then, you know, four and a half chapters of really driving home what our problem is and how we get out of it. Chapter 5, How It Works, he wrote those 12 steps in about 30 minutes after he prayed for guidance. And How It Worked was rewritten 44 times and that's really when Bill lost it. And he just said, I'm not going to do this anymore unless you all are going to let me write the rest of the book. And they agreed. There was some consternation about letting him do that, but they finally relented and said, okay, you go ahead and do the rest OF THE BOOK and you're the best writer. And he was. He was an English major also. um and then in uh chapter six we go through steps five six seven eight nine ten and eleven seven steps in one chapter because he's trying to get us into this next chapter he's trying to show us that into action means into action that we need to be taking action in our lives every day to get that spiritual awareness that spiritual awakening all right so when when it gets to this point and this will be the last chapter that i read line by line okay because the next three chapters are the to the wives the family afterwards and to the employers and i said it last week that i've got nothing to give to my family i've Got nothing to Give to a wife if i I have one, and I've got nothing to give to my employer unless I do what's in the first 103 pages and the doctor's opinion. And that is where the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous are. And this will be the last one. This is step 12 that we're going to be talking about. Now, I'm going to do the prayer I did last week. I like it. My friend California Rob who's doing this very same thing down in Winter Park right now has been doing them for 20 years. I follow a lot of his guidance in doing these wherever I go. And so if you just take a second and bow your heads with me. God, help me set aside everything I think I know about you, everything I Think I Know About Myself, everything I THINK I KNOW ABOUT MY FELLOWS, and everything I Think I Know ABOUT MY RECOVERY. All for a new experience in you, God. A new experience In Myself. A new Experience In My Fellows. and a much-needed new experience in my recovery. Amen. The set-aside prayer, and that's what it's called. I can't really tell you who started it. There's a guy named Bob Darrell that sponsored a lot of people from Nevada and he uses it. I know Charlie Parker is a friend of mine in Austin, Texas. He uses it, Rob uses it and what it does is it just tells me that I need to set aside everything I think I know all for a new experience that God will show me. And the reason that I do these things is, number one, this program was given to me freely with one request. That when I get to that 12th step, that I give it away freely also. And so it helps me on a daily basis to have sober feet and to be doing something for Alcoholics Anonymous. That's why I'm passionate about the program. I got a phone call a little while ago from what I call a grand sponsee, one of my sponsees' sponseese. He said, how after 12 years do you have so much passion for the program? I said, well, you call my sponsor who's got 28 years and is sitting right now in front of a computer uploading and downloading cassette tapes and CDs that he's found of new speakers that he doesn't have, and he has over 26,100 speakers on that website right now. Now why is he doing it? Why is he so passionate about the program? Because it saves his life also. And all we're asked to do is to pay forward what was given to us so freely. And when we get to the 12th step, it says that we try to practice these principles in all our affairs. Right? now what I'm going to have you do is I want you to number 1 to 12 on that piece of paper just write 1 to12 straight up and down because people ask me all the time now what are the principles what are the principles of this program and so write down 1 to 12 made it Just 1 to 12, right? So the first step. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol that our lives had become unmanageable. The principle behind that is honesty. Number two. Came to believe in a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. That's hope. That's the spiritual principle. Hope. Three. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives owed to the care of God as we understood Him. Faith. Four, made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. It's courage. Five, admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. It's integrity. six we're entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character willingness seven humbly ask him to remove our short comer I think everybody knows what that one's going to be humility eight made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. Brotherly love. Nine, made direct amends to such people wherever possible except when to do so would injure them or others. Justice. Ten, continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly omitted it. Persistence. Eleven, sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. Spiritual awareness. And twelve, having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs. That's service. and there's the 12 principles. So if you turn to page 89, we're going to start right off. I'm not going to be bringing in unless I jump over to the 12 and 12 and I don't know that I'm going to do it. But I brought in a bunch of different books during the course of where we've been so far. And I might bring some other ones in as we continue on with the rest of the first 164 pages. but today I'm just going to be working straight out of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous alright working with others now in this book you never see the word sponsor you see friend and things like that in the beginning to come to an AA meeting you had to have what they called was a sponsor you couldn't just walk in the door to an AAA meeting at the Oxford group or to AlcoholicsAnonymous when they were first formed without a sponsor. And the sponsor was somebody who came to the insane asylum because, remember back in 1939, you didn't get to go to the hospital. Hospitals did not take alcoholics. They went to an insane asylum to dry out because hospitals did not believe we were sick. They believed we were weak and they believed that we didn't have an illness and it wasn't until 1955 that the American Medical Society decided that Dr. Silkworks had been right all the way since 1935. Twenty years later, they said alcoholism and drug addiction is an illness. And the sponsor would go meet with them, would take them through the steps as soon as they defogged in the hospital or in the insane asylum, and then they would take him to a meeting. And so they were sponsored into a meeting They used to have people stand outside the meeting doors and they'd call them sniffers. And what they would do is they would smell you as you walked by to see if you smelled like you had been drinking. Now, they didn't throw you out unless you were unruly, but they didn'T want to hear from you either if you'd been drinking because a lot of people came to meetings drinking for a long time, including myself, you know? People used to sit next to me and say, Jesus, Jim, how much did you drink last night? I said, why do you ask? Because it's coming out of your pores like you drank a gallon. I'm like, Jesus. You know, I hate people who don't smoke. They can smell you, you know. But I'm a smoker, so I don't smell that good. So sponsorship was never even brought in until the 12 and 12 when Bill wrote it 13 years later. That's when the sponsorship was actually used as a word. But you were being sponsored in the early days in there. And even though nothing has changed, nothing has change in this book since it's originally been published, there are things that are different about today versus the way they were back in 1939. And I'll point out some of them when we go through them. I have said over and over that I do not knock treatment centers or rehabs or anything. They're the greatest thing that people can get to, can get sober, and if they follow the directions, almost everyone that comes out of there is told go to either NA or AA and get a sponsor and start working the steps and your life will change. And those that do it, do it. Those who don't tend to be the ones that come in, they get feeling a little bit better, and the next thing you know, well, maybe I've overstated this problem a little bit. I can drink normally, and if you're a real alcoholic, you're going to die. The guy who called me earlier today was a guy who just relapsed on heroin and he almost died. He did OD, but they had him to the hospital fast enough. Now, he had nine months and he was on his ninth step when he decided that one of the amends was not to go back to the old girlfriend to leave her alone. And he decided to go back against his sponsor's advice and against what he should have done. He didn't pray about it. He just went back to the old girlfriend. Both of them started jacking up heroin and he almost died. And he said, where did I go wrong? And I said where did you go right you know where did you go write were you ever in the program you know you were talking a good game but had you really surrendered your will had you really surrendered to your higher power and that's where he said no i hadn't i had a reservation and i said it says in the book we can't have any reservations none at all all right so um and I've got to say this too even though I've asked God to remove my defects of character do I believe that he's taken them all away from me? No. I know that for a fact and I know for a fat that one of my defects is humor I think something's funny I say it and then all of a sudden I realize maybe it wasn't as funny as I thought it was you know and I'm going to use an example and it happened right here in this room some of you saw me when I first started coming over here I had a green pickup truck and that green pickup track had 250,000 miles of transmission the second transmission about to go out and so I was starting to and not only that I thought it belonged to OPEC and so it just guzzled gas like anything and so I was coming to the NA meetings and the AA meetings And I was at an AA meeting on Monday night, and somebody asked me, are you going to come back Wednesday? And I said, no. You know, my truck's really having some problems, and I'd rather my truck break down leaving or coming to an AA meaning than an NA meeting. Now, you know, it just came out of my mouth, and I said that sounds kind of crazy, I know. And all the way home, in my heart, not my gut, but in my heart, I thought, damn, did I say that and did that offend somebody? And so I came back that Wednesday because it bothered me and I didn't have this person's phone number. I'd have called him right then. I called my sponsor and my sponsor said, you were just joking around. It's not anything. And I came Back that Wednesday and I said to the person, And, you know, that really was a stupid thing to say, you know, because just because I'm not, you know, full-time member of N.A., and I had never been to N.E. before in my life until I came up here, and I love it because I am around people in recovery. I said, you know, I really wanted to tell you that I didn't mean it, and I hope you didn't take offense. And I was really hoping the person didn't take offense Well, you know what they said to me? And I'll remember it the rest of my life. Your follow group was getting along just fine before you came, and it'll get along just fine after you leave. And I'm like, whoa! Did that have a day and a half resentment there? You know? But I made the amends. I made them ends because I have grown a God consciousness. And in my tenth step, it bothered me. And if it bothers me, and I say something that I think is funny, and somebody else doesn't think it's funny, I need to apologize right away. What did you say? I missed it. I was getting coffee to make the guy mad or woman or whoever. I've got to go through the whole story again. I'll give you the close note. I had a green pickup truck that was breaking down, and then I was coming over here to AA. And then I decided I liked to see what the NA was about, so I started coming to NA too. But then the truck really started, the transmission was going out and it was really guzzling gas. And I was afraid it was going to break down on the side of the road between here and my house. And so I was at an AA meeting on Monday night and this person said, are you going to be back Wednesday for the NA meeting? And I said, I don't think so because I'd rather my truck break down going home or coming to an AA meet than an NA meeting. Okay. But it bothered me, you know. All of a sudden I said that's pretty stupid to say. and then it just bothered me. And when I came back that Wednesday to apologize to that person, it bothered them too. It really bothered them two. If you said that the opposite way, it would have went a real long way. No matter what, it was the wrong thing to say because... And it was a joke. But sometimes my jokes aren't funny to anybody except me. We were all responsible for that. And that is a defect of character. And so if I say something to somebody that offends you, please tell me. Because I don't want to offend anybody. One of my goals today is not to hurt anybody physically, mentally, or spiritually. And so I try not to. Okay? That's just one of my defects. I'm not going to tell you all of them. All right, page 89. We don't have enough time. No, we do not. And it might be a couple weeks for us to get through this. but Bill's going to tell us exactly how they sponsor how they work with other alcoholics because the whole deal is this program like I said was given to me for fun and for free with one requirement, one request and that was when I got to the 12th step that I was to carry this message and I'm just as passionate today about the program of Alcoholics Anonymous as I was 12 years ago and that's why I'm here and it starts off Practical experience shows that nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. It works when other activity fails, and this is our twelfth suggestion. This is our twelve step. Now, intensive is not buying somebody a big book and telling them, go home, read the first 164 pages, call me when you've done your third step, call me whenever you're ready to do it. That is not intensive work. Intensive work with other alcoholics is sitting down with them and going through this book like we've been going through it, line by line, and sharing what it's done in my life and what it can do for your life if you follow the program of action. Okay? Carry this message to other alcoholists. You can help when no one else can. If you remember, Dr. Bob was in the Oxford group for almost three years. A spiritual program that was one of the founding programs for Alcoholics Anonymous and could not stay sober. And he couldn't stay sober until Bill Wilson went to a proxy fight in Akron to try to take over a company and failed. And Bill was thinking about walking into the bar and having a drink or walking down to the phone booth and dialing some church directories to find somebody that he could work with because he knew that for him to stay sober in that situation, he had to carry the message to somebody else. And when he and Dr. Bob finally met up, Bob said he was only going to give him 15 minutes, and that's it. And they talked for about six or seven hours. And in Dr. Rob's story in the back, which I always say that ought to be read when people are doing big book studies, that story ought to be read also not just the first 164 pages. Dr. Bob said Bill was the first person that ever knew what he was talking about when he talked about alcoholism. Everybody else from doctors to wives to clergy didn't have a clue because they'd never experienced what Bill had experienced and then Dr.Bob had one more relapse and then you know The day that he got sober, he went around making amends. Part of the Oxford group was making amens, and so he started doing it immediately before we ever had the 12 steps. And when people say, you know, I really don't have anything to give anybody, Dr. Bob was sober eight days. Eight days when he and Bill went to the sanitarium and asked, is there an alcoholic in here that we can talk to? and that's when they met Bill Dotson, AA number three. And after a couple days of talking to him, he never had a drink again either until the day he died. So what they realized is, you know, Bill and Bob could have stayed sober the rest of their lives talking to each other. But they realized they had something. But the only way that they could do anything with it was to carry it to somebody else. To carry the message of hope to other alcoholics. And that's what it says right there. It says you can help when no one else can. You can secure their confidence when others fail. Remember, they are very ill. An active alcoholic is a very sick person. Sometimes a non-alcoholic is a Very Sick Person. And that's why in the fourth step we have the Sick Man Prayer that we ask God to forgive them for they might be spiritually sick as well. And what I said a minute ago about I don't knock rehabs or anything like that. The only thing that I have, and it's just in my own personal, and I try not to inject my personal opinions, but when they say go to 90 meetings in 90 days, the big book says that we do this thing one day at a time for the rest of our lives. And so going to 90 meeting in 90 day isn't going to do anything if you don't take the program of action. When they say meeting makers make it, they do not. they die of untreated alcoholism unless they take the program of action outlined in this book and so the cliches that have come out from treatment and rehab are fine I suggest going to 90 meetings in 90 days for the rest of my life you know I suggest meeting makers make it when I take the steps and I apply them in my daily living but the little short cliches you know the only one that really makes any sense. It's in the movie My Name is Bill W and it's at the end when they're holding hands and they say keep coming back it works if you work it. Not if you think it not if you talk about it not if your great war stories if you work these principles in all our affairs in everything we do. It goes on to say life will take on a new meaning it has for me and this paragraph right here is going to be the beginning of the 12 step promises alright to watch people recover to see them help others to watch loneliness vanish to see a fellowship grow up about you to have a host of friends this is an experience you must not miss we know you will not want to miss it frequent contact with newcomers and with each other is the bright spot of our lives. And so, working with newcomers is great. I love it. Not everybody can do that. But everybody can help somebody some way. I have a guy who just got a year and he is so consumed and so busy with work and raising a couple children that he just, and he's still shy. You know, his first year, he's still shy, he just doesn't feel like he can do anything. And so we have, like I said, down in Orlando, we have a pretty large group. So he holds the door, and he greets people. And by doing that, he is getting out of himself, he is doing service work, I've said it before, sitting in a chair in an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting is doing 12-step work. Okay? So not everybody can sponsor people. Not everybody's qualified to sponsor people. There are sponsors out there that kill sponsees because they have their program they want to tell them what to do. Not the program as outlined in this book. But those are the 12-step promises start right there. It's frequent contact with each other and newcomers. Meetings. Now, we're going back. It is 1939. This book is being sent out as a 12- step call. So there's not meetings all over. There's not meeting in every town. And so it says, Perhaps you're not acquainted with any drinkers who want to recover. You can easily find some by asking a few doctors, ministers, priests, or hospitals. Because the doctors, the ministers, the priests, and the hospitals didn't have a clue what to do. They gave us belladonna. They gave them waterboarding treatment. They called it hydrotherapy. They gave those all kinds of things because that's what they thought. would help us, give us pills. But they gave us shock treatment, absolutely. But they didn't have what this book has given us. And so, of course, they're going to be only too glad to assist you. And it tells us don't start out as an evangelist or a reformer. Bill did that for six months. His first six months he would go and he would talk to drunks about his spiritual experience. And not one of them got sober. and when he went back to Silkworth and Dr. Silkworth said why don't you hit him with the medical facts first and then bring spirituality into it that's when people started listening to him and that's When People Started Getting Sober so instead of running around with religious fever he went around talking about the obsession of the mind and the allergy of the body and that the only way those two things were going to be solved is through a spiritual experience a psychic change a lot of prejudice still exists you'll be handicapped if you arouse it ministers and doctors are competent and you can learn much from them if you wish but it happens that because of your own drinking experience you can be uniquely useful to other alcoholics so cooperate never criticize to be helpful is our only aim that is the only thing we're trying to do is to be hopeful page 90 when you discover a prospect for Alcoholics Anonymous find out all that you can about it alright a lot of people don't do that a lot OF people just sit down with somebody and start working with them I have something that I do I meet with somebody I get through the doctor's opinion with them, if they can identify with one of those four alcoholic types in the doctor's opinion and they really want to quit drinking I want to meet their parents I wantto meet their wife not with them on my own and I almost always tell them the same thing I'll never tell you anything your son if I sponsor a woman your daughter tells me I recommend you to go to some Al-Anon meetings so you understand what they're going through but don't ever ask me what they're doing or where they are because I won't do it now tell me what you can and what you're willing to tell me about your son so I might know how better to treat him to help him because that's my only game we used to have Al-Anon here we don't now and I can tell you this I've been to Al-Alan meetings and thank God for Al-Al-An I wish to God Thank God for Al-Anon. They have a meeting in town now, Al-Anal. Oh, do they? Yes, they do. Where is it? I'll have to ask my wife. It's in the newspaper, though, I'm pretty sure. But they've started a meeting. I heard that. Okay, okay. That's all right. The people who go to Al-Al-An are the ones that understand. because if they don't go to Al-Anon or they don' t come to an open meeting, they've got no clue that we've got this peculiar mental twist that we want to stop drinking but we can't until we take the program of action. Alright? And it goes on right there and says if he does not want to stop drinking, don't waste time trying to persuade him. If he's not going to want to stop drinking leave him alone. There's only so much time in a day. And if I'm with somebody and he says to me, I really don't want to quit drinking. My life's unmanageable. I'm dying, but I don't wanna quit drinking, I'm gonna say to him, God bless you. I wish you well on your journey. Because if you stay around Alcoholics Anonymous long enough, if you stayed here and do this program and keep coming to meetings, I can guarantee you one thing. You will go to more funerals than you go to weddings. People are dying every day. This is a fatal disease. I get a little emotional this time of year because it's when my little brother died. Next month, I get a little emotion because it was when my older brother died a year ago. But you know what? I don't go back into morbid reflection. My little brother didn't want Alcoholics Anonymous and he died from the disease of alcoholism. My older brother didn'T want a spiritual way of life and he DIED FROM UNTREATED ALCOHOLISM. And I can't change that. That was God's plan for them, and I accept it. Yeah, sometimes I get a little depressed. But at the same time, I don't stay in the depression. Bill had a lot of depression. I'm not an authority on what Bill's depression was. You can read some books about it that other people have written. As Lois remembers, it's a good book. but what it's saying is tell you may spoil a later opportunity because if you don't want to stop drinking now and you start trying to preach to him or you start telling him you really need to all that is is frothy emotional appeal if the guy doesn't want it if the girl doesn't wanna stop drinking leave them alone at least they know there's a place because you planted the seed that's what it started off right here And this advice is given for his family also. You know, if he doesn't want to stop drinking, you're either going to stay with him or you're going to leave him. One or the other. If you stay with them, you're in for some miserable times until he wants to stop for real. All right? It says, telling the family, it says they should be patient realizing they're dealing with a sick person. If there's any indication that he wants to stop. Have a good talk with the person most interested in him, usually his wife. I always do it with the parents because I sponsor a lot of young guys. Get an idea of his behavior, his problems, his background, the seriousness of his condition and his religious leanings. You need this information to put yourself in his place to see how you would like him to approach you if the tables were turned. Look at it from an entirely different point of view. And that's why you try to find out as much as you can about the person. Normally, in the beginning, the person is not going to tell you the truth. Okay? And this is a program of rigorous honesty, but they don't know it. And they don' t know anything about honesty. I did. I did not know anything about honesty in the very beginning. You know? I had to be taught what honesty was. Now, Now, Bill goes on to say sometimes it's wise to wait until he goes on a binge. Now, the family may object to this, but unless he's in dangerous physical condition, it's better to risk it. And don't deal with him when he is very drunk unless he is ugly and the family needs your help. Well, if the family need your help and he's very ugly, the guy is going to jail. Or, if he's willing, he's going to go to detox. and I have a lot of guys that take meetings in the detox because that's where they were and they go back and they take meetings in there and I've done enough 12 step calls that I know for a fact nobody should ever go on a 12 step call to a drunk by themselves it's just a dangerous situation it was dangerous then it's dangerous now so if you ever do a 12 steps call get another alcoholic to go with you because if you're going to take them to the hospital or you're gonna take them to detox you want a sober member in the back seat the drunk in the front seat strap them in because if they decide at the last minute they change their mind they're jumping out of the car and you can't be driving a car trying to hold on to a drunk nor do you want that drunk deciding he's changing his mind he's gonna punch you out while you're driving you want somebody behind you to be able to restrain him until you can stop the car, okay? And then if he wants to get out, get out. You know, I don't care. I've got a good friend back home. He's got about 37 years. His name is Jack. And he's done tons of 12-step calls back in the old days. And he has a saying that you've never done a real 12-stepped call until you cleaned up somebody's vomit from the front seat of your car. And you know what? I've cleaned up plenty. I've clean up plenty." He goes on to say that wait for the end of the spree or at least for a lucid interval. Then let his family or a friend ask him if he wants to quit for good and if he would go to any extreme to do so. Any extreme. Any length. Okay? If he says yes, then his attention should be drawn to you as a person who has recovered. So what Bill is saying is that the family member that you've talked to, after you've talk to him, the family members, if he says I really want to quit for good, call Greg, call Hugh, call Chris and have Chris come over and talk to you. That's what he's telling you to do. Have the family member refer him to you You should be described to him as one of a fellowship who, as part of their own recovery, try to help others and who will be glad to talk to him if he cares to see you. If he does not want to see me, never force yourself upon him. You just don't do it. Neither should the family hysterically plead with him to do anything, nor should they tell him much about you. So they should just, you know, not be saying, call Jim, call Jim. call Jim. Just leave it be until he's ready. Until he says, I'm absolutely ready to stop the madness. And then it's, okay, well there's a guy who's in a fellowship that's part of his own recovery. He needs to work with you. He needs to talk to you. Would you talk to him? And that's when he calls. Because they've got to call me. I can't run around trying to find drunks. It says in here that back then they went around tryingto find them if they couldn't, if they didn't have them but we have so many meetings now and we have so many hotline lists that you know i get calls when i get called from somebody that says i can't do this anymore i said meet me at central we'll we'll sit down and we'll start we'll talk discussing it and we will see what happens um says they should wait for the end of the next drinking bout and you might place his book where he conceived in the interval and Bill goes on to say here no specific rule can be given he's given suggestions you know family members set the book next to the table maybe he'll pick it up when he's not drinking and look at it the guy who spoke here last night talked about he'd come home and there'd be all these pamphlets laid out all these AA pamphelets laid out by his wife for him to look at he struggled He struggled with getting sober. Owen did. And, you know, he's been sober 13 years now because he finally had that moment of clarity that he was going to kill himself in that hotel room with that gun if he didn't come back to the program. You all were here last night. That's what you heard. He's telling you that there's no specific rule to be given. The family must decide these things but urge them not to be over-anxious for that might spoil matters. Usually the family should not try to tell your story. I don't want a family member telling my story. They don't know my story because when I tell my story, when I share my experience, strength and hope with somebody, it's a lot deeper than when I stand up at a speaker meeting. There's a whole lot of things that I don'T tell anybody except my sponsees and it's only to gain their confidence that I have hope, that I was given hope through this program. All right. When possible, avoid meeting through his family. I don't go to somebody's house where the wife is sitting around or the parents are sitting around. I have them meet me at a meeting because I want him to see... First off, I want to see him there if he'll show up because that means he means business. I want him to see the fellowship. I want them to hear the five minutes before a meeting starts. I call it the music of Alcoholics Anonymous, that laughter. We hear it on the porch right before a meet and we're out there laughing. Sometimes we're up there crying but most of the time we're laughing at some of the sickest stuff in the world because only alcoholics can find humor in some of this stuff we've done. alright if your man needs hospitalization he should have it but not forcibly unless he is violent let the doctor if he will tell him he has something that the doctor tell him if he wil that he has some thing in the way of a solution and what's the doctor going to tell him he's going to tel him that I've got a friend who knows something about a solution to your problem because I can't solve it The pills aren't working, the hydrotherapy isn't working but I know a man who has solved his problem, his drinking problem and let the doctor be the one to tell him about you. When your man is better, the doctor might suggest a visit from you. Though you've talked with the family, you leave them out of the discussion. So I never bring up with my guys, they know that I talk to the family but they never know what the family's talking to me. I never bring in whatever the family's told me I keep that separate and there's a reason for that there's reason that I don't want him to know what the family told me and I'm not telling the family what he tells me and the reason is if for some reason he decides to drink he's going to use that as a revenge he's gonna use that as a resentment and I don' t want that to happen and Bill's telling you not to let it happen there too under these conditions your prospect will see he is under no pressure he will feel he can deal with you without being nagged by his family call on him while he is still jittery he may be more receptive when depressed and that was true I mean, that was absolutely true for me that last drunk of mine when I came to man was I jittering man wasI depressed Picked up a nine-month chip the night before, and the next day I picked up a half gallon of whiskey. Where was my defense? I had none. I had no defense against that first drink. So it's saying, call on him when he's jittery, and he might be more receptive when he is depressed. When my sponsor answered the phone, the guy I asked to sponsor me on Saturday, I drank on Sunday, he answered the call on Monday morning. And the first thing he said to me was pour the rest of the alcohol out go to your noon meeting pick up a white chip I'll meet you there and we'll start working the steps and that's what happened and that is exactly what the book tells him to do see your man alone if possible at first engage in general conversation after a while turn the talk to some phase of drinking tell him enough about your drinking habits symptoms and experiences to encourage him to speak of himself it amazes me and it shouldn't amaze me anymore but I still get amazed sometimes that I'll be telling somebody about some of my drinking experiences and all of a sudden the guy will look at me and go I did that same thing you know, I did the same thing it's funny how so many of us do the same thing, you know not everybody went out and stuck a gun in somebody's face, but occasionally I run into somebody who did do that But a lot of my other experiences, you know, encourage him to talk about himself. If he wishes to talk, let him do so. Listen. That's what it's saying right there. If somebody wants to start talking to you and you're going to work with them, shut up and listen because what you're gonna hear is all the different reasons why, okay? You know, I drink because of the wife. I drink for the bad job. I drink this. I drink that. Bullshit. You drink because you're an alcoholic, okay? But you don't need to do that right then. You let him talk if he wants to. And you listen. The hardest thing for me to do is shut up. You know? I'd love to hear myself talk. I should be a teacher. Sorry about that. I'm picking on poor Ashley. You get a better idea on how you ought to proceed and that's the reason you let them talk. Because you're going to hear the things that you're going to need to work on. You're going to hear their anger, you're gonna hear the resentment, you can hear his fears or her fears. You are going to hear how you're going to proceed with the guy or girl. I don't need to do that every time if I say guy just girls same thing okay? Alright. If he's not communicative give him a sketch of your drinking career up to the time you quit so tell him about your drinking tell him about what what you did up until the time you quit but right now it says but say nothing for the moment of how you quit how that was accomplished okay if he is a serious mood dwell on the troubles liquor has caused you being careful not to moralize or lecture if his mood is light Tell him humorous stories of your escapades. Get him to tell some of his. Like I said, we do some crazy stuff and we think we're so unique that we're the only one who did the crazy thing. And so many times, boy, I did that too. Boy, I was just like that. You know? It's amazing, like I said. When he sees you know all about the drinking game, commence to describe yourself as an alcoholic. That's when you start getting to the point. Tell them how baffled you were, how you finally learned that you were sick. We're not talking about religion. We're talking about spirituality. We're telling them we were sick, that we had an illness. Give them an account of the struggles you made to stop. I tell people how many times I went to meetings and went to meeting and then went home and got drunk. And I tell them why I went home and got drunk. Because I never did the program as outlined. I never followed the directions. I went to meetings, I prayed, I begged God, I don't want to drink today, and I was drunk. Why? Because I didn't do any of these things that they found work. Alright? Show them the mental twist which leads to the first drink of the spree. We suggest that you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism. Chapter 3 If he is an alcoholic he will understand you at once. He will match your mental inconsistencies with some of his own. Now if you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic we don't tell people whether they are alcoholic or not. They have to concede to their innermost self and that's on page 30. They have to say they're a real alcoholic. But most of us know a real alcoholic when we see one. Even though it tells us not to judge people and tell them they're one, they have to decide for themselves if they're going to get well. But if I'm satisfied that this guy has explained to me his drinking and what happens and how he can't stop, I'm pretty convinced that he's probably got a drinking problem and he's not just a heavy drinker or moderate drinker that he's an alcoholic. Begin to dwell on the hopeless feature of the malady. It starts in the very beginning of the book. You know, thousands of men and women who recover from a hopeless state of mind and body. And so we start talking to the guy right away about the hopeless situation that he is in. His hopeless malady Show him from your own experience from your own experience how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the willpower. That's the obsession. Don't, and here it is, don't at this stage refer to this book unless he's seen it and wishes to discuss it. So we don't just get the book and throw it in somebody's face. We start talking to them. We start taking a look and talking to him about our own drinking problem and how we were able to get over it. but we don't start forcing this book down somebody's face the first day. That's a mistake that I see all the time. People buy somebody a brand new big book, give it to them, tell them to go read the first 164 pages. That is not intensive work with an alcoholic. That is a lazy man's way of trying to help. You're still trying to helped, but you're not doing it by the book. All right? And it says, and be careful not to brand him as an alcoholic Don't ever call somebody an alcoholic because you'll run them off. You'll run him off. Maybe you're one like us, I don't know. That's for you to decide. And you'll decide that by working the program. You'll come to that conclusion if you relate to the different alcoholic people in the doctor's opinion and then the four alcoholics that are in we agnostic. and remember that lack of power is our dilemma and we learned in We Agnostic that that's the main object of the book is to show us that a power that can solve all our problems, not just our drinking problem, but all our troubles is to find a God of our own understanding. Let him draw his own conclusion. If he sticks to the idea that he can still control his drinking, tell him, okay, maybe you possibly can if you're not too alcoholic. but insists that if he's severely afflicted, there may be little chance he can recover by himself. Bill talks a number of times about how we don't have a monopoly on recovery. There are people who are alcoholic, they go to church, they stop drinking. Okay? So we don'T have a Monopoly on it. But are they living a spiritual life? Have they learned to live a spiritual life? If rehabs and churches turned out sober members, we wouldn't need Alcoholics Anonymous. But we need to find a spiritual way of life which is entirely different than a religious way of living. And it's going to go on to talk about that in a second. There may be little chance that he can recover by himself. Continue to speak of alcoholism as an illness, of fatal malady continue to tell him about what you see the people dying from this disease because they don't want to stop talk about the conditions of the body and mind which accompany it keep his attention focused mainly on your personal experience so I'm keeping his attention focused on what me I'm not pointing a finger at him I'm saying this is what happened to me and I continue to talk about me not just because I'm selfish and self-centered which I am but he needs to know that I am somebody who has had that peculiar mental twist that I know what leads to the first drink I know if I stop doing what I'm supposed to be doing I'm going to pick up a drink it says in the book there will come a time maybe a week maybe a month that we'll forget the horror and the tragedy of our last drink and there might come a times but as long as I continue to do this I've got a chance that they won't be that I won't ever forget my last drunk explain that many are doomed who never realize their predicament and this is again back in 1939 when they were mailing this out this is trying to explain to somebody like me who was able to read this book agree with it follow the directions, recover from alcoholism, and now it's telling me how to go out and help somebody else in my community by talking about my own personal experience. And also that there's millions out there. Back in 1939 there were millions and millions of people who didn't know about Alcoholics Anonymous. It just got started. Okay? So they don't even know that they're doomed. Doctors are rightly loathed to tell an alcoholic patient the whole story unless it will serve some good purpose. But you may talk to him about the hopelessness of alcoholism because you offer a solution. Alright? You will soon have your friends admitting he has many, if not all, of the traits of an alcoholic. If his own doctor is willing to tell him he's an alcoholic, so much the better. Well, big deal. My doctor, you know, people going to church, they all knew I was an alcoholic my former wife she knew I wasn't an alcoholic she lived with me for 21 years that didn't matter I didn't care I didn' t know I was going to die from it until I came into the room and somebody told me about the fatal progressive illness even though your protege may not have entirely admitted his condition, he may become very curious to know how you got well. Now they called him a protege back in the old days in New York. They called them pigeons. And Bill Dotson, I'll tell you this, Bill Dotson, A number three, carried a resentment most of his life because Dr. Bob and Bill W. called him a guinea pig. And he didn't like it. You know? He was their first guinea pick. But in New York, they called them pigeons. And the reason they called him pigeons is because he comes from the carrier pigeons that they used to use to carry during World War I and then World War II. They even used them sometimes there. And so a pigeon is going to be somebody who's going to carry this message to somebody else. I didn't like being called a pigeon. I didn'T like being caught a lot of things that I deserved. and then it says let him ask you that question if he will how you got well now squiggly lines tell him exactly what happened to you so I don't beat around the bush if he asks me how did you get well I'm going to start right then by telling him what I did I'm gonna sit down with him I'm Gonna Have The Book With Me and we're gonna have a highlighter this is where i've already talked to him about the mental obsession i've already talked about the metal twist in a mind i've talked to them about the physical allergy that alcoholics have to alcohol that once we start drinking it we can't stop and if he's wanting to really know how i got out this is when i bring spirituality into it It says stress the spiritual feature freely. If a man be agnostic or atheist, make it emphatic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God. He can choose any conception he likes, provided that it makes sense to him. The main thing is that he be willing to believe in a power greater than himself and that he live by spiritual principles. And I gave you the spiritual principles earlier. when dealing with such a person you'd better use everyday language to describe spiritual principles there is no use arousing any prejudice he may have against certain theological terms and conceptions about which he may already be confused don't raise such issues no matter what your own convictions are and so I don't talk to a guy from a religious point of view you know I'm standing here in the Therese Club you follow alabama and i believe that everyone in this room knows more about religion than i do i believe every one of you have gone to church more than i ever have in my life i truly believe it and so i'm not talking about religious terms i'm not going to try to convince you that my god's better than your god i'm just going to say that you need to have a power greater than yourself to restore you to sanity, step two and that you live by spiritual principles alright and it tells me that use everyday language now I have stumbled and fumbled through so many words in this book when I'm up here that's not everyday language to me when I say the third step prayer I don't use thy will be done I use your will be done i'm not i don't quote spiritual i mean religious dogma i just don't um but i try to live a spiritual way of life i fall short on a lot of things but i tried let's see if i want to stop here or i want to go on all right yeah i want to finish this one paragraph. Your prospect may belong to a religious denomination. His religious education and training may be far superior to yours, just like I just said. In that case, he's going to wonder how you can add anything to what he already knows. But he will be curious to learn why his own convictions have not worked and why yours seem to work so well. So, I'm talking to a guy who goes to church on a regular basis and I'm telling him about spiritual concepts and he's like I know more about religion than you do why can't you stop drinking you know why can'T you stop drinking and if he is curious he may be an example of the truth that faith alone is insufficient faith without works is dead to be vital which is life giving faith must be accomplished by self sacrifice and unselfish constructive action action let him see that you're not there to instruct him in religion admit that he probably knows more about it than you do but call to his attention the fact that however deep his faith and knowledge he could not have applied it or he would not drink no matter how strong his religious beliefs are if he's an alcoholic it ain't working is it so you call that to his attention perhaps your story will help him see whether he has failed to practice the very precepts he knows so well alright he goes on to say we represent no particular faith or denomination we are dealing only with general principles common to most denominations general principles common to most denomination and that's what the spiritual program is alright we're going to stop for 5 minutes or as long as it takes to have one cigarette ok top of page 94 we're not talking about religious we're talking about spiritual And so it says, outline the program of action. I've said it every week. This is a program of action. Explaining how you made a self-appraisal, step four, how you straightened out your past, five, six, seven, eight, and nine, and why you're now endeavoring to be helpful to him, step twelve. It's important for him to realize that your attempt to pass this on to him plays a And here's the word again, a vital part, a life-saving part in my own recovery, in your own recovery. So when I'm telling somebody, the reason I'm doing this is to help me stay sober. The reason I'M helping you is to HELP ME. He may be helping you more than you are helping him. And I have told sponsors that hundreds of times. You don't know how much you're helping me. And they go, what are you talking about? I said, just by you being here and just by you asking the questions and just by you following some simple directions you're helping me stay sober. It's one of those paradoxes just like the first step, surrender to win. Now it's, I've got to give it away to keep it. The paradoxes. Make it plain he is under no obligation to you that no obligation to you that you only hope that he will try to help other alcoholics when he escapes his own difficulties. So what we're saying is you don't owe me anything. You're under no obligation to me. I just hope that you'll try to help other alcoholists when you finally have that spiritual experience from the first 11 steps. So just how important it is that he plates the welfare of other people ahead of his own. make it clear that he's not under any pressure that he needn't see you again if he doesn't want to it's up to him you shouldn't be offended if he wants to call it off for he's helped you more than you've helped him I've had plenty of people walk off plenty of People and I don't chase them my sponsor says if they're not calling you don't Chase them because they're not ready and if they are not ready you're going to spoil a chance that somebody else might have later on by trying to go find them now I might make one phone call just to find out did you find another sponsor and here recently I've had three sponsees down in Orlando call me and say I need another sponsor and I say you're absolutely correct and I want you to pray on it and I know some good sponsors who would help you but it's got to be your decision all three of them so far who have gotten face-to-face sponsors because I've been up there so long all three of them picked the person that I thought would be best to help them all three that's not a coincidence that's a god shot to me right there because one of the ones is a guy who couldn't stay sober and he was George Zimmerman's number one spokesman while he was drunk he was on another run and he wasn't drunk and he defended George Zimmermen all over the news. They flew him up to be on the Today Show and he talked about how the guy was defending himself, all this stuff. And then he got in a wreck drunk and he came back in. And he's the only one I've ever stood in a parking lot and screamed at. And he started... I mean, I screamed at him. He looked so horrible. He just looked like death warmed over. And I said, you're going to die! Two weeks after he started working with me, his second son had a DUI fatality. his only other son died and he did not pick up a drink and he hasn't had a drink in 14 months and he called me the other day because I tell him to share that story because it's a powerful story that for 15 years he came in and out and that even when his second son died he didn't have to have a drink and he said I told that story and I went to lunch with this guy and it's the guy who I had already decided that if my sponsor passes away I want him as my sponsor and I said absolutely because he talks a lot about surrender and that's what this guy needs so it works he's not under any obligation to call me if he wants to call it off, that's fine if your talk has been sane, quiet and full of human understanding you have perhaps made a friend I tell people when they ask me to sponsor them. You know, I have certain qualifications that I ask them. And one of them is I'll sponsor you, but I'm not your friend. If I become your friend through sponsorship, that's a bonus. But I'll take you through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and I'll show you what I've done and what I do to stay sober. and if we become friends that'll be great I've had plenty of guys look at me and go why are you saying that because I go to friends funerals and if you happen to be one of those ones that dies I may not want to come to your funeral I may now want to I don't go to everybody's funeral but I go the friend's funeral it kind of makes people look at maybe I don' t want him to sponsor me But I'm not here to be a friend. I'm here to help you save your life, just like somebody saved my life. And he wasn't very nice to me at first. And I have no problem telling people in the very beginning, you can put me on your four-step resentment list as the number one resentment because by the time we get there, you may not like me very much. But if you're still working with me, then put me On That List if you want to. I don't have a problem with it. It's better to give a resentment than to get one. I don't try to give resentments but it just comes out sometimes like that it's a humor I talked about maybe you're disturbing about the question of alcoholism, that is all to the good, the more hopeless he feels, the better he will be more likely to follow your suggestions, we talk about desperation and if I'm telling him how hopeless and helpless he is without a spiritual way of life and working this program of action he's probably going to keep coming and he's probably going to keep following some directions alright it says suggestions I call them directions it says your candidate may give reasons why you need not follow all of the program he may rebel at the thought of a drastic house cleaning requires discussion with other people that's fourth and fifth step it says not to contradict such views tell him you want felt as he does but you doubt whether you would have made much progress had you not taken the actions. On your first visit, tell him about the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. If he shows interest, it says here, lend him your copy of this book and I have by him a copy of his book. I'm not giving my book away. My book is way too important to me. It's got too much stuff underlined and outlined and I'm probably going to lend him this copy but I have three copies in my car so I can lend him one of those or I'll buy him a book unless your friend on top page 95 wants to talk further about himself don't wear out your welcome give him a chance to think it over if you do stay, let him steer the conversation in any direction he likes sometimes a new man is anxious to proceed at once and you may be tempted to let him do so this is sometimes a mistake if he has trouble later he is likely to say you rushed him you rushed him alright that's because he's not looking at himself you will be most successful with alcoholics if you do not exhibit any passion for crusade or reform alright so I'm not I'm a I'm not a reformist I'm not against alcohol I'm not against church I'm not grabbing church down anybody's face I'm not on a crusade but i am passionate about alcoholics anonymous i hate to tell you that it it saved my life and so i am compassionate about it and people see that passion sometimes sometimes they call me a thumper and i don't care and then it goes on to say never talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop never talk downtime to an alcoholic from any moral or spirit spiritual hilltop. I've heard it say that an alcoholic is the only one that will be laying in a gutter that can look up and look down on somebody, you know? And that was me. That was me, and I was judging people all the time until I got into the program and learned that I don't have the power to judge. It says simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspections. The kit of Spiritual Tools are the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. after the big book then it's the 12 and 12 and then it is language of the heart and then A comes of age and then Dr. Bob and the good old timers and then as Bill sees it those are all in my spiritual kit show them how they work for you now read that first word it doesn't say tell him so a lot of times people are watching me because I need to show him what this program has done not just tell him I'm trying to work with a new guy but if he sees me telling him all about spirituality and then he watches me go down on the trail and pick up a hooker that's not really going to work is it I need you to be showing him that I'm living a spiritual life offer him friendship and fellowship tell him that if he wants to get well you'll do anything to help anything to help. Now, they do some things back in 1939 that I don't do. One thing I don' t do is I don''t take a wet drunk into my house. They did back then. They found out through experience that some of that didn' t work. A guy committed suicide in Bill's kitchen. I don'T lend money. It tells us not to be lending money because all we' re doing is buying another drink. I have given people money, but I don't lend it. If I give you money because you're down on your luck and you need something to eat, I'm giving it to you. I'm not expecting it back. So there's a difference between giving somebody a hand up or lending them something and expecting something in return. Tell him that you'll do anything to help. Excuse me. If he's not interested in your solution, if he expects you to act only as his banker for his financial difficulties or a nurse for his sprees you may have to drop him until he changes his mind. This he may do after he gets hurt some more. If he doesn't die you just have to stop working with people sometimes. If they're wanting you to be their banker if they're want you to to be there I'm drunk and I'm going to whine and cry I'm gonna hang up on you and tell you to call me in the morning when you're sober I'll talk to somebody on a hotline call that's drunk I'll talk to them and listen to him for about 15 minutes and then I ask the question do you want to go to detox well you know what do you wanna go to detox that's a yes or no answer well no not right now okay I've got to go I've another call coming in I'm sorry I'm not gonna sit there and listen somebody whine and cry over and over on the phone drunk but if he says yes then I'm going to get another alcoholic we're going to go pick him up and we're going to take him to detox if he'll go alright if he's sincerely interested and wants to see you again ask him to read this book in the interval now I'll I'll ask people to read the book I give assignments because I want them to go through and study the book i don't want them just to read it but i will ask them to go ahead and read it if they've got time and they they're out of a job and their life's been out of control what better thing to do than read the book I got people who get newly sober and they call me up at night and they say god I can't sleep I say start reading the book it's one of the best night quills in the world is the big book alcoholics anonymous if you can't asleep start reading the book read the book over and over it's a textbook it should be studied and referred back to okay after doing that he must decide for himself whether he wants to go on he should not be pushed or prodded by you his wife or his friends if he is to find god of His understanding that the desire must come from within. If he is to find God, the desire muss come from inside of him. If he thinks he can do the job in some other way or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his own conscience. We have no monopoly on God. We merely have an approach