The Delusion of the Successful Alcoholic – 10th Workshop – Part 2 of 2 – Local AA Speakers

good evening everybody and welcome to our tenth installment of the big book is alive workshop i'm a recovered alcoholic and my name is mike chase and I'm a recovered alcoholic in my name as Joe our spiritual duty is to put newcomers hands in God's hands as quickly as possible we have found this to be the most effective by doing our part to make the big book come alive as a disclaimer comma we are not experts were just a couple of recovered alcoholics that love the big book however we have made it our utmost spiritual errand to become as familiar with the facts of history as possible in other words if we are reading from the big book it means that we are studying what we know to be a divine solution to alcoholism at other times we may share an experience an observation or an opinion and we certainly encourage you to grow and investigate the history of Alcoholics Anonymous for yourselves as you grow closer to God so basically what's going on here. We aim to reproduce what we do with our students in a one-on-one session only with a much bigger crowd, a bigger audience. This, however, should not replace your own personal one-to-one work with your own teacher slash sponsor and it also should not replaced our own personal work with our sponsors and our sponsees. Absolutely. That's right. This is workshop style study and our aim is to invigorate your current experience with God. Tonight we aim to wrap up the chapter more about alcoholism but as always we appreciate spiritual consent to allow god to lead us so as we study tonight's material please enjoy the pages we have uploaded on mikechase.org underneath the podcast link you'll see a link where you can click on and actually download a pdf of the pages were reading and discussing today with highlights underlinings and the same notes that we have here this is to give you when completed a teacher's edition toolbox big book before we begin our study of the big book we would like to invite you to join us in a brief two-minute meditation we do this for a definite spiritual reason and that's to allow god to remove all forms of ourselves which might block us from the sunlight of the spirit so that we may have a clear connection with god as we study wow i like that so basically what that means is we're going to shut up for two minutes we're gonna invite the monks into the room they're out in the hallway again practicing um and what we suggest you do is to sit up straight as possible put your hands one on top of each other don't cross them don't across your legs and just sit and concentrate on your breathing for the next two minutes try to let the craziness of the day you know just pass to the side and if you need to ask god to just take that stuff and hold it for the Next hour you'll be amazed what happens when you ask god for your help and of course we never get enough God so we're going to set the timer and we'll see you back in two minutes Choir singing. Thank you. Amen. Alleluia. Wow, that feels great. Absolutely. I'm totally at peace now. Please join me in the lay-aside prayer. Dear God, please set aside anything I think I know about myself, about my disease, about the big book, the twelve steps, the program, the fellowship and all spiritual terms, especially you, God, so that I may have an open mind and a new experience with all these things. Please help me see the truth. Amen. wow we're back to this podcast i love doing this um just so you guys know what's going on here yesterday about two days ago my air conditioner died uh died on it so this is a nice comfortably warm thing we're going through here today so it's actually invigorating us i love this the red room is red hot there's red hot and we say red room and that's spelled r-e-a-d because this is the room where the big book has been read joe you want to get us up to snuff where we're at today absolutely we've gone through uh three separate stories and more about alcoholism and we're about to jump into the fourth and final one today with fred um we were looking a little bit more about the impact that the obsession of the mind has as its component in this disease this is built upon from the information that we got in the previous material about the phenomenon of craving and some of the spiritual malady but each of these individuals um you know suffered from the obsession of the mind first of all with with jim we saw him go through that intense situation where he came to work on tuesday had a few words with the boss and then decided to drive into the country for uh i guess to get a prospect for a car is what he told himself but it actually was a temper tantrum. I'll show you. Absolutely, and he wound up doing something pretty amazing by putting whiskey in milk, telling himself that he would be okay because he was taking the whiskey on a full stomach. If you base any decision on a lie, you will always run into the truth. And he certainly did. He certainly did because he offset the phenomenon of craving and wound up in a bad situation and it goes to say what a lot of things that are told in contemporary today that we tell newcomers you know doesn't come to mind when it gets down to picking up the only thing that helped me to ever stop drinking was in the morning praying on my knees god please help me i beg you to help me stay sober today and throughout the day until i got over that bad relationship with my higher power and developed a fresh new one as a result of the steps i still ask god to help keep me sober every morning on my knees but a magical white chip will not keep you sober the great intentions of a bunch of phone numbers in the back of a when and air when and where will not keep us sober god and only god will help you keep sober we've learned that time and time again and the book keeps bringing that to us however intelligent we may have been in other respects where alcohol has been evolved we have been strangely insane it's strong language but isn't it true so we start wrapping up that was uh jim's that that's the end of the the jaywalker where just sort of comparing us to like being able to not make decisions and follow through with them and i guess when you make a decision it's actually a decision if you actually fall through with it makes me think of that frog if you got three frogs on a log right and one of them decides to jump off how many frogs are on the log joe uh three three because nobody followed through with any action which is amazing because none of these guys at this point continued to follow on with action they had fear they had information knowledge and that wasn't enough to keep a quote-unquote ready real alcoholic sober and in the midst of the studying that we've been doing in this chapter we got another sacred definition the definition of insanity as the big book brings forward the thought that precedes that first drink whatever it is that we tell ourselves born out of the obsession of the mind that makes it okay for us to put the very substance which is killing us back into our body is where insanity, as far as the book goes, is available to the alcoholic. I find this interesting. Just this past, about two or three months ago, the scientific community shot down one of Einstein's most famous alcoholic statements that the definition of alcoholic insanity is repeating the same thing over and over, expecting different results. Well, that's the basis of scientific study. That was the basis for me to determine whether I'm a real alcoholic or not. If I cannot successfully control my drinking after many different attempts, I will be thoroughly convinced when it's pointed out to me. But until somebody like sits down with me and reads the book and points out some information, I'm just doing what I do because that's what we do. So that may be true for certain non-alcoholic people who though drinking foolishly and heavily at the present time are able to stop or moderate because their brains and bodies have not been damaged as ours were. We're talking about the non-alcoholic, the ones that come into rehabs and detoxes because, yeah, they drink like doo-doo-doos, and they come into AAs. They're sentenced by judges. The therapist says you should go check out AA, you know. Very well-intended people, but they're sending non- Alcoholics into Alcoholics Anonymous, and we're told earlier on it's our responsibility to start qualifying these people and sending them to appropriate things. We cannot be everything for everyone. Alcoholics Anonymous, single as a purpose, we are here to help alcoholics recover from alcoholism. It's an important realization that the book actually says that non-alcoholic people are capable of drinking foolishly and heavily. There's sort of an approach to this where anybody who drinks out of control is labeled as an alcoholic, but that's far from what we've been studying with this three-fold disease and definite diagnostic criteria given to us in the book of Alcoholics Anonymous. But the actual potential alcoholic, with hardly an exception, will be absolutely unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge. All that stuff that we get at IOP and a lot of great information we get in rehabs doesn't work with a real alcoholic. It works with a lot non-alcoholics. If you don't drink, you won't get drunk. I love that. It's the first one. Stay away from the first ones. So this is the point we wish to emphasize and reemphasize to smash home upon our green underline alcoholic readers that has been revealed to us out of bitter experience. Let us take another illustration. I love Fred. This guy is just, he's a hoot. Absolutely. I love this story. There's so much I can relate to in this too. So here we have our fourth story. By the way, pay attention to the shoe drop, the way he describes Fred to the world. Fred is partner in a well-known accounting firm. His income is good. He has a fine home, is happily married, and the father of promising children of college age. He is so attractive, a personality that he makes friends with everyone. If ever there was a successful businessman, it is Fred. To all appearance, he is a stable, well-balanced individual. Yet, he is alcoholic, green underlined. We first saw Fred about a year ago in a hospital where he had been recovered from a bad case of jitters. It was his first experience of this kind, and he was much ashamed of it. Far from admitting he was an alcoholic, he told himself he had come to the hospital to rest his nerves. The doctor intimated strongly that he might be worse than he realized. For a few days, Fred was depressed about his condition, green, highlighted. He made up his mind to quit drinking altogether. Hmm, we've heard that repeated time and time again. It never occurred to him that perhaps he could not do so in spite of his character and standing. This is his first attempt after a bitter situation ending up in the psych ward, a detox, the drunk tank, whatever you want to call it back those days. With this first, well, I better do something about it. You know, it's been sort of a problem in the past, but golly gee willikers, darn it. i'm gonna do it now right how does that work yellow underline fred would not believe himself an alcoholic much less accept a spiritual remedy for his problem a couple of reasons behind that lack of information probably given to him and also it's his first time trying to quit you know if he hasn't tried a couple then that insane thing of trying to quit a few times it's sort of hard to just say yep thank you doc i'm alcoholic right especially for us we have it's like take away my only solution you know whatever it's not because we drink because we like getting drunk we like it's that and that's what's so weird about alcoholism people look at us and they see what we do when we're drunk and that'S how they determine what an alcoholic is they don't understand the spiritual malady that's carrying us apart they don' t understand the mental obsession that's just like I drink I drink drink drink and then worse on top they You don't understand the phenomenon of craving when it does kick in. They just see us doing alcoholic or stupid drunk behavior. So Fred had a lot of stuff thrown at him at once, and you can understand why he didn't jump on the old Oxford Group bandwagon right away, right? We told him what we knew about alcoholism. Steps one and two. Definition of a problem. He was interested and conceded that he had some of the symptoms. Big qualification. But he was a long way from admitting that he could do nothing about it himself. This is where we show up with these big L's on our forehead in his mind. He looks at us, right? Yellow underline. He was positive that this humiliating experience plus knowledge he had acquired would keep him sober for the rest of his life. Self-knowledge would fix it. I wonder if Fred knows Roland Hazard. By the way, self-knowlege would fix its quotations in green. I've written in, not. Not off to the side. Joe, how did self-knowledge work for you as a real alcoholic? Plain and simple, it didn't. Ooh, that's right to the chase. We heard no more of Fred for a while. One day we were told he was back in the hospital. This time he was quite shaky. He soon indicated he was anxious to see us. The story he told was most instructive for, here's a chap. absolutely convinced he had to stop drinking and had no excuse for drinking, who exhibited splendid judgment and determination in all his other concerns, yet was flat on his back nevertheless. Let him tell you about it. Ooh, I like this. I was much impressed with what you fellows said about alcoholism, and I frankly did not believe it would be possible for me to drink again. Green underlined. I rather appreciate your ideas about the subtle insanity which precedes the first drink. But I was confident it could not happen to me after what I had learned. Again, I know that I'm insane. I've got this. But of course, that doesn't stop Fred from being insane. I reasoned I was not so far advanced as most of you fellows, you losers, that I had been usually successful in licking my own personal problems and that I would therefore be successful where you men failed. Once again, he's labeling us with a big L on our foreheads. Yellow underline. I felt I had every right to be self-confident that it would only be a matter of exercising my willpower and keeping on guard. Wow, I can't wait. We're getting into some great chapters where we find out how Will is. What's he doing? He's sicking Will on it. I got a drinking problem. Go get it, Will. in this frame of mind i went about my business and for a time all was well and here's where the slip starts and the lie this is where this is yellow and underlined i had no trouble refusing drinks and began to wonder if i'd not been making too hard work of a simple matter so let's break some of this wording down no trouble refusing drinks i can see him pounding his fist on the table saying, dang it, I told you not to offer me wine. I told him not to give me a scotch. You know, he's refusing them. It's not like... I was walking in the Publix the other day and I'm going down with my little cart buying potato chips and stuff and I ended up in the wine aisle. I was like, oh my God, I'm in the vine aisle. And I just continued on. No big deal. I may as well have been in the ethnic food department. It was no big deal for me. But here he's struggling. He's refusing. It'S like, I'M NOT GOING TO DRINK. I'M NOGONNA DRINK YOU KNOW? And he began to wonder if I'm not making too hard of a simple matter the the the rationalization it's oh it's not that big of a deal you know you just get drunk a little bit he forgot the fact that he's got the malady of fatality that he will drink himself to death you know and in this frame of mind he can't actually access what alcohol did to him he's starting to remember what it did for him Ah, the ah factor. Oh, yeah. One day I went to Washington to present some accounting evidence to a government bureau. I'd been out of town before during this particular dry spell, so there was nothing new about it. Physically, I felt fine. Neither did I have any pressing problems or worries. My business came off well. I was pleased and knew my partners would be too. It was the end of a perfect day. Not a cloud on the horizon. Sounds like a song from a musical. Right, it does, doesn't it? So, you know, everybody thinks we get drink from stress and stuff like that. There's no reason for him to drink. There's not stress. It's not even a celebratory thing. It's just had a normal great day. Not a clouds on the Horizon. Joe, yellow underlined. I went to my hotel and leisurely dressed for dinner. Okay, I leisurely addressed for dinner? I just, I can't imagine what that's like. You know, I've never leisurely dressed for dinner. You know lay out my suit put some socks, you know, it's like this guy's just so calm and so relaxed You know not a problem is no hurries But watch out Fred because here comes the threshold Whoa as I crossed the threshold of the dining room the thought came to mind That it would be nice to have a couple of cocktails with dinner That was all nothing more. You mean he didn't think about I think I'm gonna have a cup couple of cocktails for dinner and then maybe, you know, go grab a bottle and chug on that bottle for a little while. And, and then call my wife and tell her that she's going to tell me to blow off and don't come home. And then I'm going to go into some immense run. I'm going to end up, I probably lose my job. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna end up in the hospital again. No, the specific lie that Fred told himself was nothing more. He actually believed that he could just have a few cocktails. So if we hooked him up again to a lie detector, he would pause. I was just going to have a few cocktails so what did you do i ordered a cocktail and my meal perfectly harmless it's just a cocktail right but then i ordered another cocktail did he change his mind did he suddenly get really thirsty or did some little triggery thing kick in absolutely it's in his system the he's an alcoholic that's what got triggered phenomenon of craving in full swing it clicked And he, just like me, just thought, oh, that was so good. I'll just have another one. Coming from a rational-based decision from an unrational-based decision, we take the lie, the false, and pretty it up. We cutitize it. After dinner, I decided to take a walk, probably feeling a little bit tipsy. When I returned to the hotel, it struck me. A highball would be fine before going to bed. That struck him. It would have been a baseball bat. Dude, no more drinking. No, but it doesn't. So I stepped into the bar and had one. Just one? So he's on three drinks now? Three. I remember having several more that night. How many is several? Several is a good... Uncountable, too. A grave generalization of a large number of bottles. When I returned to the hotel, it struck me a highball would be fine before going to bed. So I stopped at the bar. I stepped in the bar, and had a bottle. I remember spending several more than that, and plenty the next morning. Plenty really does it, doesn't it? Does somebody want to just email me with the definition of several and plenty? I want to get a numerical count on that. I have a shadowy recollection of being in an airplane bound for New York and of finding a friendly taxi cab driver at the landing field instead of my wife. So you get the idea. Maybe he called his wife with the slur and slobber. And she's like, no, click. So he's drunk. He just climbs in a cab. But this cab driver becomes his new best friend. The driver escorted me out about for several days. I know little of where I went or what I said and did. Holy mackerel. Then came the hospital, as we predicted, with unbearable mental and physical suffering. Sounds to me like this evening started out with the lie at the threshold, the allergy kicking in, and then he splurged into a blackout, and then He ends up in a hospital. I bet you if that was on his list of things to do that previous night, he might not have picked up that drink. But then again, it probably wouldn't have stopped him because he was an untreated alcoholic. Fred had no solution. He probably had a pocket full of numbers. Well, he could have in today's days. You know, Fred, you should have thought that drink through. Call me before you drink. Yeah. It's like the stuff that does not work is the stuff we tell untreated alcoholics to do let's get serious so fred believed the lie nothing more than a couple of cocktails he made a decision based on the lie put the substance into his system and the phenomenon of craving took him through a blackout then came the hospital and the unbearable mental and physical suffering as soon as i regained my ability to think i went carefully over that evening in washington see that's interesting thing about alcoholism when we actually come out of a run we can look back and go like oi vey i should have had a v8 or something no but no it's like wow yellow underline not only i had been off guard i had made no fight whatever against the first drink because it's the first drink that gets us gets that phenomenon of craving kicking in this time i had not thought of the consequences at all i had commenced to drink as carelessly as though the cocktails were ginger ale. I now remembered what my alcoholic friends had told me, how they prophesied that if I had an alcoholic mind, the time and place would come. And please call if you feel like drinking. I would drink again. I wouldn't drink again while read box with sparkles on page 24. Joe, let's go back to page 24 or this is going to explain why that does not work for a real alcoholic. This is the fact box and we've got sparkles around it. It's green and it sticks out like a sore thumb. The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called willpower practically becomes non-existent. We are unable at certain times to bring into our consciousness with the effect of the suffering force, the memory of the suffer and humiliation of a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink. Yes. So either Fred was unable to bring into his mind the fact that he'd been in a hospital from an alcoholic binge, or if he did think of it, it was kind of hazily and readily supplanted with that old threadbare idea of this time it'll be different. The hospital wasn't that bad. I met a few nice people there. Actually, I'm only having two. I'm already having one. not realizing that the the physical allergy aspect is the one that takes us out you know true we have that mental obsession that takes US there in the first place but if we never suffered phenomenon and a craving there'd be no alcoholism we'd be like unhappy spiritually defunct obsessively going out for two or three drinks you know and going home with a hungover there would be no alcoholism without phenomenon of craving exactly so back to the reading and we're uh still at the bottom of page 41 i now oh let's go back because i just that was a good rant we'll go back to this as soon as i regained my ability to think i went carefully over that evening in washington not only i'd been off guard i had made no fight whatever against the first drink this time i had not thought of the consequences at all i had commenced to drink as carelessly as the cocktails were ginger ale. I now remembered what my alcoholic friends had told me. Too late. How they prophesied that if I had an alcoholic mind, the time and place would come. I would drink again. Yellow underlined. They had said that though I did not raise a defense, it would one... Excuse me. They said that though I DID raise a defence, it would someday give way before some trivial reason for having a drink. Well, just that did happen and more, for what I had learned of alcoholism did not occur to me at all. Highlighted in green only, I knew from that moment that I had an alcoholic mind. I saw in yellow that willpower and self-knowledge would not help in those strange mental blank spots. As a matter of fact, it's underlined yellow. I Saw That Willpower and Self-Knowledge Would Not Help in Those Strange mental blank spots i have never been able to understand people who said that a problem had them hopelessly defeated i knew then it was a crushing blow wow step one ish absolutely by the way we haven't come across anywhere in this book page 42 plus 15 plus 12 you're now at step one no not at all or you're nowadays let's work step two it's not here's some more information here's Some more information. So step one and two are conclusions of the mind. Wow. Do-do-do. Two of the members of Alcoholics Anonymous came to see me. Okay, I love this line. They grinned, which I didn't like so much. Then asked me if I thought myself alcoholic and if I really licked this time. You can just see us coming into the room in twos. And we do it naturally. First of all, when I go to a detox or a wind-up joint, You recall one of those places, you know, and I see somebody I know and they're back and a smile's got to come to me because it's celebration. There is hope. You're not out there anymore. Let's get to work. Let's Get Into the Book. You know, I'm one of the few people that really sort of like celebrate or relapse because it is one last chance to get it right. So he is meditating on whether he is alcoholic and if I was really licked this time. I had to concede both propositions, Fred says. Yeah, they piled on me heaps of evidence to the fact that an alcoholic mentally, such as I had exhibited in Washington, was a hopeless condition. They cited cases out of their own experience by the dozen. This process snuffed out the last flicker of conviction that I could do the job myself. Now, how amazing is that these two members of Alcoholics Anonymous come to visit him and they are talking back and forth. And the process of one alcoholic relating to another one snuffed out the last flicker of conviction that Fred could do the job himself. Turn back to page 30 in the box. We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other men, or presently maybe, has to be smashed. Wow. Next paragraph. Then they outlined the spiritual answer, step two, and program of action, three through twelve, which a hundred of them had followed successfully. In case you didn't catch that, that's yellow and underlined. They then outlined the Spiritual Answer and Program of Action, which 100 of them have followed successfully But we're going to turn back to the forwards. Actually, it's forward to the second. It's XVI and it's Sparkled. And we're gonna actually go over what type of program of action they were talking about back then, you know? Because it was, well, what is this thing that he... And actually, we're gong to be referring to Bill W.'s little thing he had here. And it is right... I love the book. Page XVI, forward to The Second Edition. This is what Bill explained as the program of actions. Bill was convinced of the need for moral inventory. confession of personality defects, restitution to those harmed, helpfulness to others, the necessity of belief and dependence upon God. That is the program that Fred was given by these two guys that came to him. And accountability to the four absolutes of the Oxford groups. Though I had been a nominal churchman, nominal churchmen, shows up on holidays occasionally and puts a nice check in. Their proposals were not intellectually, intellectually hard to swallow green underlined but the program of action though entirely sensible was pretty drastic once again door a die a miserable disgusting life or door b happy joyous and free not that hard of a decision when you know the facts if it's pure pressure social stigma that's trying to get you to make that decision you might waffle information share time with God and a recovered alcoholic, that answer comes pretty quickly. What does he say? It meant I would have to throw several lifelong conceptions out the window. That was not easy. But the moment I made up my mind to go through with the process, I had the curious feeling that my alcoholic condition was relieved. In fact, it proved to be. That is almost a third step feeling he has got. He made the decision and started to follow through with a program of action. one two three wow fred's off to a new life and by journeying the program of action fred comes to find this next sentence which is crucial so that's why it's yellow and underlined quite as important was the discovery that spiritual principles would solve all my problems so i like to work with my guys and i'm saying listen here's the let's take a look at the four absolutes you know absolute honesty absolute purity absolute unselfishness and absolute love if that is the if that is the the boundaries or the the fundamentals of your life good luck being upset and frustrated and living in shame and guilt and remorse you know when you're living in god's side of the street not much is bothering and when troubles come you just turn it over to god and you just get through it that's yeah would solve all my problems and we're going to find a little bit later that the problems are all my own making from being a lying cheating stealing low-life self-centered inconsiderate self-serving backstabbing duty right absolutely start being a loving caring compassionate kind person and it starts to snowball once we clean up the past life gets incredibly better green i love this part i have since been brought into a way of living more infinitely more satisfying and i hope more useful than the life i had lived before fred had a life where he brought you know success to his family food to the table was able to be a partner in a business and but there was still something missing in him that spiritual malady that was causing him to seek, drink, and other things in the first place. My old manner of life was by no means a bad one, but I would not exchange its best moments for the worst I have now. I would NOT go back to it, even if I could. So Fred's story speaks for itself. I hope it strikes home to thousands like him. He had only felt the first nip of the ringer. Green, underline, read this very slow. I want you guys to pay attention to this. Most alcoholics. Most, I've got that off to the side, not all have to be pretty badly mangled before they really commence to solve their problems. Oh, I don't think you've got enough consequences. Why don't you go out? No, just because your bottom was... I remember reading Bill's story and every time I read Bill's stories, I'm like on the second or third page of Bill's store and I'm up getting my white chip. Hey, because I was not like Bill W. This guy just kept like the ever ready alcoholic. He kept drinking and drinking all this miserable stuff. Do not be judging somebody else's bottom or willingness or ability to do this program by your own experiences. Give them 100% of what was given to you through the book and let them make the boast of it. I am not responsible for the outcome, but if I give somebody the pure message found in the book, not diluted, not watered down, and not filled with a bunch of other doodly-doo stuff that our family thought we didn't invent, if I gave them pure big book Alcoholics Anonymous recovery, what happens to them is between him and god or her and god i used to walk around with this false assumption that there was something out there that i needed to make things work in here another consequence another bottom another this but of course once we get to the sacred rooms of alcoholics anonymous all we need is to be offered a solution there's nothing out there that will help us in here once we're here it's all about getting connected to god and going through the process. Shoulder to shoulder, walking hand in hand, bringing these people to the page one word at a time, one sentence, one paragraph, one page, file directions in the book. You will be amazed. Many doctors and psychiatrists agree with our conclusions. One of these men, staff member of a world-renowned hospital, recently made this statement to some of us. Yellow, what you say about the general hopelessness of the average alcoholic's in my opinion is correct as to two of you men yellow and underlined whose stories i have heard there is no doubt in my mind that you were a hundred percent hopeless apart from divine help off to the side quotations capitals g o d stressing the god particle recovery right had you offered yourselves as patients at this hospital i would not have taken you if i'd been able to avoid it people like you are too heartbreaking though not a religious person i have profound respect for the spiritual approach in such cases as yours green underline for most cases there is virtually no other solution wow god is the solution that's coming from a medical doctor who knew alcoholism not some wannabe dr fred or dr phil this is a guy who specialized in us for years next paragraph this is the fact box you're going to box it you're gonna yell of it we got some quotations and underlying go download the pdf this is some great stuff we got here once more the alcoholic at certain times has no more mental defense against the first drink except in a few rare cases neither he nor any other human being can provide such defense. His defense must come from a higher power. Green, underline his defense must come from a higherpower. You know, we wrap up this page. It's ironic that the Grapevine just recently ran the delusionary statement, you know. Don't drink and go to meetings. Yeah, actually down here it says meeting makers drink if all you do is make meetings. That would have been a great thing on the cover of the Grapevine. Meeting makers drink if all you do is make meetings instead of meeting makers make it to do totally on on reality of what's going on in the real alcoholics life so we're wrapping up more about alcoholism this was the the closing of the information we've learned up to this point you know we spent a lot of time into the forward to the first edition where we talked about what alcoholics anonymous is as a fellowship where it started from it started From a bunch of people you know who are incapable of stopping drinking they realized that it was a fundamentally fatal malady they discovered and you know stumbled upon a solution and it became their missions in life to help other people i.e if they didn't they would drink and also you have the solution you have you have got something to help people with why wouldn't you you're walking down the street to the store and you walk by a house and you see the house on fire you know you see people help help do you stop and help an inconvenience your little trip to the store or just like somebody else will come along and continue walking back in those days they stopped what they were doing and helped perhaps we could pick up some of that today right um the forward to the second edition how did those guys do it was amazing you know they came to the world with a solution we threw it out there for an investigation and 16 years later when we had one alcoholic who's recovered working with an unrecovered alcoholic. The big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, all surrounded and held together by God. We had amazing success rates. We saw where the fellowship actually was the program. The program was the fellowship, and we had an amazing success rate. We go through Bill's story. We're able to see the classic 12-step call, what it is to be an alcoholic. You know, a 12- step call is basically give the guy some information, what is to the alcoholic. Oh, by the way, share with yourself that i'm an alcoholic and c give them a solution so when you leave that house that little buckaroo's got some hope that gal is thinking wow if it worked for her it will probably work for me then we got there's a solution you know we hear a lot about this what is the god thing what is the obsession with god and alcoholic synonymous well guess what it's the solution it is the solution and it's not an obsession it's what we're all about what is The Obsession with thinking that it's something else when did well we know in the 1960s is when the grapevine ran that article the open discussion meeting you know alcoholism started coming at the seams a little bit where we started taking the god out of it in the book and just bringing in more so-called social psychological stuff which we find in the solution did not work with quote-unquote real alcoholics it worked with problem drinkers and heavy drinkers so here we are treating real alcoholics with a treatment that's not even designed for alcoholics we had taken the design the solution which was god and service to others and sort of put it on the back burner into how to be well let's just be like therapeutic in nature again you know so we learned in the solution that that doesn't work that we have to get back to the god into the book you know that's where our solution comes from then we have you know the more about alcoholism which is just the the everything that we've learned up to this point. It's like, I think I am, I think I am, but I might not because there might be one little thing dangling, one little reservation we have and the stories, the information, it just takes everything that we think we know and boom, knocks it down. Are you or are you not? Are we ready to continue at this point as sponsors? We look, we've looked at the importance of qualifying these people sitting opposite us and helping them to make an informed decision about where they're at and whether they fall into this class of being an alcoholic, whether all the investigation and all the studying and all of the praying and meditating and research that we've done up to this point leads that person to believe that they've experienced that phenomenon of craving. When sober or when drunk, they suffer from the spiritual malady and the obsession of the mind. We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, But, golly gee, if you've got a little student sponsee that's not sure about it and you have some information to help them make that decision, jump on. You know, Joe, I'm going to go through this last chapter we did. And, Jess, we've got just a few minutes. I'm just going to touch all the boxes. All right. We've got some great boxes. Our first step box, page 30. We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people has to be smashed. Wow. We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers our control. That's all the information we've learned being brought up today. Page 31, the white chip box. Despite all we can say, many who are underlined real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore non-alcoholic. This is to our non-alcoholic readers, green underlined. If anyone who's showing inability to control his drinking can do the right about face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. This is where we start fundamentally in your face. Are you an alcoholic or are you not? Because if you're not, go find some wonderful other solutions. But if you are a real alcoholic, you better keep reading because this may be the last house on the block for you. You know, if you were a real alcoholics, The things that work for your non-alcoholic buddies in rehab are not going to work for you, and you're going to become that repetitive chronic relapser, which I like to call chronically untreated. Perhaps if we started treating these guys as alcoholics, we might not have so many chronic relapseurs. Whoa, page 30 at the bottom. We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. I'll step over to the nearest bar room and try some controlled drinking. Try it to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not be long for you to decide if you are, big word here, honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of the jitters to get your full knowledge of your condition. Once again, yeah, I did not go out and order like little wine spritzers and little Rob Roy's all night. Did you go get some really strong Johnny Walker Blue Labels? some, you know, were you able to trigger the allergy? Because if you can trigger the allergie, guess what? You are a real alcoholic. And if you cannot trigger the real, if you could not trigger the allergy, you now, therapy, groups, celebrate recovery, something other than Alcoholics Anonymous because we're here for the real alcoholic, we're going over to page 33, underline, great stuff here, once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic commencing to drink after a period of sobriety where in short term as bad as ever talking about the phenomenon of craving is a biological problem whether you have a pancreas and a liver system that has a problem metabolizing liquor at a certain age the longer you go without drinking isn't going to make it heal through the normal aging process bodies deteriorate so we will be more allergically prone at a later date we're more sensitive just because our systems cannot process it 34 i've got a box there i'm going to take that one joe sure for those who are unable to drink moderately the question is how to stop altogether green love this line say it we are of course assuming that the reader desires to stop and if he doesn't desire go on have fun come back we're here when you're ready yeah i hope you make it back you know it's funny whenever whenever i think of somebody going on a relapse it's like you know oh we got to send on the SWAT teams let's do it you know a bottle alert on you know and it's just like we were drinking for 15 years without a problem and all of a sudden we go out on one attempt to find out if we're real or not and it says we got to call in the AA SWAT team hopefully they'll come back you know right but we're alcoholics we're quite resilient whether such a person can quit upon a non-spiritual basis depends upon the extent to which he has already lost the power to choose whether he will drink or not if you have not been able to decide whether that's you or not you better many of us felt that we had plenty of character there was a tremendous urge to cease forever yet we found it impossible green this is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it this utter inability to leave it alone no matter how great the necessity or the wish. That is what we like to call have you crossed the line box. Page 35, this is our relapse box. Well, right above it, let's read that line right above it. So we shall describe some of the mental states that precede a relapse into drinking for obviously this is the crux of the problem. What sort of thinking dominates an alcoholic who repeats time after time the desperate experiment of the first drink? Friends who have reasoned with him after a spree which has brought him to the point of divorce or bankruptcy are mystified when he walks directly into a saloon why does he of what is he thinking so then we got fred's story where excuse me jim's story the car salesman you know who's had every reason knows for 100 he should not drink but yet he goes to his normal hangout resentment time kicks in he ends up in a slippery slippery space and the lie suddenly the thought crossed my mind that if i were to put an ounce of whiskey in my milk it wouldn't hurt me on a full stomach i ordered whiskey and poured milk into it i vaguely sensed i was not being any too smart but felt reassured i was taking the whiskey on a whole stomach we're talking about the mind or the inability to make rational decisions joe read the mind box on the next page whatever i'll get that one sorry whatever the precise definition of the word may be we call this plain insanity how can such a lack of proportion of the ability things straight be called anything else wow and there we got the definition of insanity as it relates to alcoholism in the big book that thought that precedes the first drink once again but there's always the curious mental phenomenon that parallel with our sound reasoning they're inevitably ran some trivial excuse for taking the first drank our sound reasoning failed to hold us in check the insane idea won out so we're going to go back over to page 39 we were talking about alcoholics and non-alcoholics leaving some information matter of fact on page 38 however intelligent we may have been in other respects where alcoholism where alcohol was involved we've been strangely insane it's strong language but isn't it true Joe, page 39, fact. The fact that may be true that certain non-alcoholic people, though drinking foolishly and heavily at the present time, are unable to stop or moderate because their brains and bodies have not been damaged as ours were. But the actual or potential alcoholic, with hardly an exception, will be absolutely unable to start drinking on the basis of self-knowledge. This we have to smash home upon our alcoholic readers. Fred's story, bottom of the page, perfect stuff. He made up his mind... Which is where the problem is at. ...to quit drinking altogether. It never occurred to him that perhaps he could not do so in spite of his character and standing. Fred would not believe himself an alcoholic, much less accept a spiritual remedy for his problem. As a matter of fact, he was positive that his humiliating experience plus the knowledge he had acquired would keep him sober for the rest of his life. Self-knowledge would fix that together. Not. A little farther down, green underline. He's talking about the information we bring to him. This is all ego pride, ego pride. Ego pride written all over the place, right? I rather appreciated your idea about the subtle insanity which precedes the first drink. Thanks for the information, losers, but I'm better than you guys, correct? A little further down. I felt I had every right to be self-confident, that the exercise of my middle power was keeping me on guard. In this frame of mind, it went about my business for a time all went well, yellow underlined. I had no trouble refusing drinks and began to wonder if I'd not been making too hard work of a simple matter. Next page we actually talk about the lie. I went to my hotel and leisurely dressed for dinner. As I crossed the threshold of the dining room, the thought came to mind that it would be nice to have a couple of cocktails with dinner. That was all, nothing more. Lie. Duh. It struck me, down at the bottom of the page, this is the insane kicking in again. Not only had I been off guard... I had made no fight whatever against the first drink. This time, I had not thought of the consequences at all. So relate to that, right? I commenced to drink as though carelessly as the cocktails were ginger ale. Though they said I did raise a defense, it would someday give way to some trivial reason for having a drink. Rover on page 42, green, middle of the first paragraph. I knew from that moment that I had an alcoholic mind. Page 42, yellow, underlined. I saw that power and self-knowledge would not help me in those strange mental blank spots. so i feel like drinking fred give me a call did not happen i knew then it was a crushing blow i love this two members of alcoholics anonymous came to see fred they grinned which i didn't like so much and then asked me if i thought myself alcoholic and if i were really licked this time you know so they outlined the spiritual answer and program of action to him and he was But the program of action, though entirely sensible, was pretty dastard. It meant I would have to throw several lifelong conceptions out of the window. Wow, that's the tough part. All the information I've led up to this point, which is causing me to make bad decisions. Do I want to start over again? I would think so. Bottom of the page, yellow. This is a cool line. Quite as important was the discovery that spiritual principles would solve all my problems. I've been brought into a way of living infinitely more satisfying and, I hope, more useful than the life I lived before. As the two of you men, this is getting back here a little bit, Fred's story speaks to itself. Most alcoholics have to be pretty badly mangled before they really commence them to solve their problems. Not all. And let's not start grading people on their bottoms and their situations. If somebody's qualified as an alcoholic and they're sitting with you in the room, guess what? the miracle has happened get to work with them and then we get this brilliant conclusion and the information that we've been studying is brought about again and bill even says once more the alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink except in a few rare cases neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense his defense must come from a higher power so if all you're doing is going to meetings not working the steps not praying guess what meeting makers drink if it was all about meetings and 90 and 90 we'd have one pamphlet said go to meetings right but that's not this is a spiritual journey this is a program of action this is about leveling of our pride this is all getting reconnected from god Boy, that's the album. Matter of fact, give Grapevine a little jangle and ask them to stop putting that type of stuff out there, that leading misinformation, because it's going to lead to more people dying. Let's own up to our responsibility. Wasn't it that Bill W. said that Alcoholics Anonymous would be suffering from within? If anything takes AA down, it would be us from within side. In the 60s, we sat by as we let the Grapevine write that article. Open discussion meetings would lead to the first phase of AA starting to fall. Now they're doing it again. Are we going to stand by? Are you going to give the grapevine a little jangle and say, Hey, please stop spreading this disinformation. Let's bring it back to God. How much further must the fellowship grow away from the program? Ironically, we're going to go into we agnostics next week. That's right. It's all about God. Listen, old ideas and beliefs, old behaviors, you've got to be willing to put all that stuff on the behavior and start a new relationship with the God of your own understanding. This has been an opportunity for us to just grow and get reconnected to God I loved it. Thank you so much for sitting with us today. And, Joe, thank you for sharing this process with me. Having you in this life is definitely an honor and a privilege. Thank you. It's a gift for me too. So let's wrap this little buckaroo party up. All right. In the words of Dr. Bob. My favorite recovered alcoholic founder who stayed pure to the message up to the day he died. If you think you are an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic, or have any form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you. If you think you are strong enough to beat the game alone, that is your affair. But if you really and truly want to quit drinking liquor for good and all and sincerely feel that you must have some help, we know that we have an answer for you, it never fails if you go about it with one half the zeal you've been in the habit of showing when you are getting another drink. your heavenly father will never let you down please join us next week as we continue to study the big book and remember to download the highlighted pages from tonight's session you can be found at MikeChase.org found under the podcast link where you can download the PDFs of what we've just been studying and we always enjoy hearing from y'all especially from guys and gals don't be shy about dropping us a line as it's always a privilege to meet other alcoholics who are also on fire about God and on fire above the solution found in the big books And we're going to close out in the traditional way with the fog light prayer. Well, Joe, if you want to repeat after me, God, let your love shine through me like a fog light for those who are lost, sick and dying can find your love through me. Amen.