Growing up and the 12 Steps – 4 Seasons Workshop – Part 3 of 8 – Don

When we come back from our break, we're going to then talk about the medicine wheel's concepts and laws and how do they fit to steps. Because then they make you want to look forward to doing the steps. So let's take about a 14-minute break. Finding those issues which help us discover that knowledge of the Creator. It is through the defect where we discover that knowledg. That doesn't mean that it's bad or wrong. now in the medicine world too we often talk about the four directions of things so we'll talk about the four dimensions of life baby, youth, adult and elder and that's our directions that's the way life goes in a circle but very often when we come into recovery many of us there is a place where the medicine wheel is broken and for many of that medicine we use is broken between the youth and the adult. Because you see, we grow up or whatever, then many of us we start drinking when we are in the youth. So physically we will grow up. Our bodies will grow. We get married. We have children. But emotionally we are like teenagers. We don't grow up we're immature even though we're older. I remember I first come into recovery I went through divorce and all that stuff when I finally got to that point I went in a relationship I went out with this woman twice and I found myself going in my jewelry box trying to find my class ring I wanted to go steady hell, I was 33 years old they don't even go steady no more but I wanted it to go study I wanted a pinner so you show all your buds she's wearing my ring Christ is, you know, nearly halfway to the coffin and I'm still, you see still going this old way so very often when we come back and we work the steps, it's about growing up you know? It's about coming back to that place and continuing my growth does that make sense? This is broken it's not going bad it's where we stop in the unseen world So we've got to come back there, do some things, and grow up to become mentally healthy and mature. Now, what we're leading up to is because the steps is to take a look at the human being who is in recovery from a native point of view. Well, let's look at what would it look like for a native person to grow up? did the creator make a path of things that we are supposed to experience as we grow up is that already in place or is it just an accident you know or is there something we're supposed to do so if we look a little bit further at what is it like to grow up as a native person because if we have an idea about that then we get into the steps we look at the steps or we read the big book from a native point of view. So we want to just take a look at this cycle of life. So, we'll look at that and then we're going to go and apply just these basic concepts to an approach through the 12 steps from an Indian way of looking at it. Now, we're going to talk about these developmental cycles here and about growing up. See, very often we judge one another just based on things that we see about one another. So, we look at that one and we say well, those Indian men, see, they can't trust, don't talk, don' t feel. You hear sometimes about that. Or look at that stone face or that one don't talk or this one does that or see. So we tend to start judging and putting people in categories but you know a lot of times we don't know what's really going on inside of a person. Sometimes we don't even know what's going on inside of ourselves. So we want to talk about growing up because it seems that the Creator made He made a system for us to grow as human beings to grow up to be mentally healthy. That there are certain things we're supposed to experience and if we don' t experience them then we will see behavioral differences later on. So we're going to talk about that. So when we look at certain things in the steps, we're looking at it with a point of reference that will make sense to us as human beings. So if we take a look at this cycle of life of an Indian person, and this applies I think to any human being, but it seems that when a baby is born as a human being One of the first things they need to experience is a sense of trust. And this might be from birth to maybe 18 months, that time frame. That child needs to experience a sense OF TRUST. It's a feeling. In other words, that little baby, you see moms hold them every time they cry and they touch them and carry them and they do all this stuff just constantly with them. That's why in a traditional way they carry them every place they went. in a traditional way. They never, the discipline and everything was just, no matter whether they worked or what they did, they just had that baby hanging on them all the time. Now what happens, because there's two roads, let's suppose that the baby, like the sense of trust, it doesn't develop a sense of trust. See, a sense of trust when you have that is a feeling and it's this feeling it's like the world is a good place and man, I belong in it. See, that sense of trust. Because if you don't have a sense of truth, there's two roads and you have a sense of mistrust. So if you have a sense or mistrust inside of that human being, then later on you'll see behavioral differences occur. So if I have a sens of mistrust, in other words, the world isn't a good place and I don't belong here, then later one you'll wall builders difficult time in relationships cannot connect see cannot be intimate so as we look through these steps and we start to realize now that maybe trust is an issue that's the normal state for the human being see I thought for a long time trust was abnormal you're stupid to trust where I was raised it's dumb when I was drinking I would never trust no one I didn't drink Geez, look at the guy. Don't drink. Don't trust him. Right? It's like you don't know what you don' t know. So I thought you only trust... See? You trust your buds that are drinking. So I found it was abnormal for a human being to trust. I thought it was stupid if people trusted. But then later on I learned that the fish by its design was designed to swim. The bird was designed to fly. The human being is designed to trust. That is a natural state of the human being. But I didn't know that, see, until a little bit later on. Now, let's just say that like a baby, like they have this thing called TLC. Like a long time ago in Germany, they used to find that most babies put in orphanages died. They'd feed them, see change your diapers, but most babies put in orphanages died in the 1800s. So when they started to research that, they found out in Germany there was this orphanage where the babies weren't dying. And they sent a little team over there and said, why is that happening? When somebody got over there, there was This big German lady and she had worked there. But she had this system. She'd hang a string of diapers. She'd have this diaper hanging on her shoulder and she'd have one kid in that little pouch. This side, she'd Have another pouch, see? she had a kid hanging in there and then she'd have one on her back and they were hanging on their back, three of them. So she'd walk around doing her work and cooking, see these babies are just flopping all over her like that. Well what they found out was that that was this simple. Those kids had developed this sense of trust. And so they would continue to live. See? So one of the things we need to know when we come back to this principle laws and values, when we start to change our thinking if I find and I discover look at my unmanageability or I get see where am I in terms of spirit and intent with that if I found out I'm a mistrusting person I have a lot of mistrust well then what happens if I go work on that yet see where I am in terms of spirit and intent with that If I find out I'm a mistrusting person, I have a lot of mistrust, well, then what happens if I go work on that? Because very often we work on symptoms. There's something wrong with me in relationships. I cannot be intimate. I just can't take risk. I've got to learn to be a risk taker. But can I be a list taker if I don't create back within myself a sense of trust? So if I work on a trust, will the risk taking ability change without me working on it? So I'm working on the right stuff. See, you can... Listen, I don't know what I don' t know. You can work on the wrong stuff and be working on a symptom and it won' t ever change. It's just really a struggle. Now, the neat thing about the human being is if we have missed something in this developmental process, we have the ability to go back and put it back inside of ourselves. See, to be restored to sanity. So we have the ability, if we've missed something, So most of this that we're going through, these developmental stages, is to kind of get from I don't know what I don' t know to now I know whatI don' te know. So once I know these things, as I start to work those steps, and I should be able to really accelerate my growth and really grow in a very sound path if I know how the Great Spirit made us and I work in harmony with getting me back to that system He made and not invent it. now let's just say that you have a little baby say 18 months old has developed a sense of trust in other words they have this feeling and we've seen some of them the world is a good place and man I belong in it and then they start walking now the adults will call that next stage autonomy or it also means a sense of independence so a two year old when they can start walking It takes three adults full time, see, working in shifts just to hang with them. See, because they get up, you start sitting on the ground and their feet are going like this. They're just waiting for you to let them hit the ground. And they're off. And they run into everything. I mean, they're just into the dirt and they're tasting this and taking toast and dumping it in the milk and reaching in and squeezing it and making messes, see? Now, what's the two most favorite words of a two-year-old? No. Uh-uh. Now, at that developmental stage, that two-year-old has to develop a sense of independence. So they try to break away from mom and dad. I am my own person now. You want to do this? No. Well, let me butter this. I'll do it myself. Uh-uh. You need this? Uh-huh. No, uh-uh, no, no. See, and indeed, a two-YEAR-OLD would be a perfect juvenile if he could just drive a car. they're just tearing everything up now you'll see very often like say two daughters come over to mom's place each has a two year old and one of the moms will come over and take their two year older and sit them on a chair and she just sits there so perfect and so proper the other sister brings her kid over and I'm telling you that little boy just tears grandma's place up he's into everything pots and pans and exploring and doing all this stuff and they say to that person, why isn't that one like that good little girl? That good little girl may very well be the one that's not developing mentally healthy. You see? Because you're supposed to develop that sense of trust, that sense, that freedom because it's at that stage where you start to learn to make choices and decisions. I'll do it myself, thank you. So when you see those little two-year-olds doing that, you see, when you seen them making a choice or a decision, like they draw this weird thing or whatever and they show it to you. Ooh, I like how you decided that. You're something. You're good at it. And you see them. They walk on their nose up in the air. Ooh,I'm good at It. So at that stage,you see, you're supposed to develop that sense of independence. Because if you don't develop that sense, it's a feeling, a sense of being independent, then what will you see later on? Can't make decisions? Indecisive? see, wishy-washy, not taking risks, afraid of this, afraid of that. Does that make sense? So when we start to develop ourselves and go through the steps, if we started to come back and take a look at this developmental cycle as we work the steps and I see I'm having trouble choice and decisions, I have a hard time in relationships and I can ask myself do I have this feeling of independence? If not then maybe I need to go back and do something to bring it back inside of myself so I can have that stage because that's how the Creator made me he says one thing to grow up in my world that I created to be mentally healthy is you must develop a sense of trust that you belong in this world it's a natural state for you you see and you love being here not only that your function from choice and decisions see that you have the ability to do that On what? Well, that's really handled in a step. Like you see where is it you function from trust at the level a spirit intent. Trust in that sense is a decision. If you trust someone too much, that's not trust. Right? That is a different issue than trust. And that's some kind of a fear. We'll get into some of that. Could we just ask that one just a little bit later? Because There's more information that will really help. It's like you cannot... Trust is not a volume. Trust is a decision. So you cannot trust too much. That's called some other things. But not trust. Any other questions or comments on this? The next stage you go through is a stage called initiative. And this happens at about ages, or maybe four to seven. Now you'll see little kids, what you'll see them is all of a sudden they just go from tearing everything up, all of the sudden you see them, they become really pretending type. They have like imaginary friends, pet turtles. And they make you set places for them at the supper table, sit here in front of a friend and they talk to them just like they're real. And then you'll seen them, they do all sorts of weird things. You know, one day they'll have a pan on their head and they pretend to be a policeman. Then the next day they're like a cop. Then the Next Day They're Cowboys and they want all this stuff on them. See? Well, it's at that stage they are developing and so they're saying, I wonder what it's like to be policemen. See? So they put a pan around their head and they run around blowing sirens and doing that stuff. And the next thing, I wonder if it's life to be called person. You know? Cowboy. So they start shooting like this and you see them do all this type of stuff and you'll see them sometimes They'll pretend like they're a dog. See, they'll come up, woof, wooф, wooF, and bow-wow, bow-wow. And they'll grab your parent leg like that, and they'll sit up and bark like that. And you reach up there, get a cookie, see? Make them speak, see. You give them that cookie, pat them on the head, see, kick them in the... Now, it's okay if you're three, four, and five doing that. But if you've got a teenager that's doing that, like barking like a dog, you're really in trouble. You've got to stick kid. it's really bad right so it's at that stage where they are developing now imagination, the ability to vision, creativity, skills so they're developing that then you'll see this you, this young person or girl and they'll come to that next stage of development called industry or another word for it is sense of accomplishment so at that stage, these are those pre-teenage years, there's two feelings that the human being needs to have. One feeling is I'm good at something feelings. I'm good for something feelings we need to have that feeling. I am good at it. Now you'll see like culturally we always we knew who we were. You say why am I who am I where am I going? Well you know him he's a hunter. You know her she's and that feedback was always to give us that feeling of being good for something, good at something. You see, a lot of teachers are pretty good at it in schools. They have little badges and little happy faces, you know? You go up there, you get your test, you go, ooh, look, you get a blue happy face, see? Man, you're something. See, I'm good at It. So you get those I'm-good-at-It feelings. So you'll see boys' clubs or some of our drum groups. What they're doing is they're giving those youth those feelings, I'm good at I'm-good-for-something feelings. Because you see, what happens if you don't develop those feelings? It's a polarity system, so I will develop then I'm not-good for nothing feelings. I'm no good at anything feelings. Excuse me, what age would that be? Eight. Eight to twelve. That's the pre-teenage years. So if you develop at that age, I am good for nothing I'm not good at anything feelings then later on you'll see behavior hey why don't you go try this are not me but I think you can drive you know I I wouldn't be good at it you need to see in body language is just just not good anything you know those type of feelings and you'll just see a resistance that can make decisions and just real withdrawal see type of things so it's at that age is very very important you see to develop within the human those two feelings now let's say I get in recovery and I can examine through the set of steps that I don't have those feelings the neat thing about the human being is I have the ability to come back and develop them I need to have those to be to grow mentally healthy now you take a a look at how many of us have been raised in dysfunctional families. How many of us had been raised by alcoholic parents like me? How many of us has, many of our relatives drinking? How many of them have been told, I mean did we, did somebody like when you were growing did we develop a sense of trust or did we have good choices and decisions, right? Two-year-olds, you see, where you're supposed to be going, no, uh-uh. Oh, yes, you will. Shame on you. Bad girl, bad boy, smack, slam, kick. Then all of a sudden you don't develop those feelings as normally, so as you start to grow up acting a certain way, there must be something wrong with me. Then you start into some of the violence and some ofthe sexual abuse and some of other things many of us have experienced. So we start to grow up with no sense of trust, no sense of independence. I am good for nothing. You're good at nothing. Even the input from schools and all these different things. So we start to grow up as native people, growing as dysfunctional families, not having these feelings which the Creator designed for the human being to have. Does that make sense? Yes? Yeah, you just described one of my second great classes. A majority of the second grade class that I have show a lot of their time and symptoms, and what they're talking about a lot is when they're talking about mom and dad, broken promises, and they don't trust them. They're just second graders. I can just imagine what it would be like in a couple years. Absolutely. But even for us, you know, as native people, alcohol is but a symptom. There's other things that we have to work on. But I think you see a lot of that in our kids. Ourselves grew up that way, many of us. That's the way it was. Now we just grew up thinking that was normal. I didn't know there was another way right it's like my dad would go drinking or whatever well we knew you know his patterns really well and we heard when he'd come back to the res you know we always had a lot of old cars and stuff out in our backyard so we'd hide food in there so when he comes out that back window we'd go back over that food we had stuff stashed hoping he wouldn't come find us but we weren't the only one A lot of people did that. That was just the way you did it. Now, you know, it's a survival thing. But you see, well, it is just like myself. When I was... I grew up in a pretty dysfunctional family and when I was in this age here, from age where I am supposed to be developing a sense of industry or accomplishment, from a time I was a little before I was 10 years old until a little after. I was about 11 and a half. I was sexually molested by an uncle minimum weekly. So it was also one of the favorite uncles come from a large family. And that went on all the time. Then one time he went to a party and somebody shot him six times. They got in a big fight. I was so happy when that happened. But then when I saw how my mom and everybody acted, they were all sad. I had the wrong feeling there. I was glad to some a bitch got it. See? It's how I thought and I never ever told anybody that ever until I was 33. But then you'd see me in relationships. Relationship after relationship after relationship. I built these walls. You see? And I just couldn't let anybody through and God, I wanted to. Or sometimes you'd see a woman that would have the insight to get through those walls. I was just giving signals, see? Come on, come on, come on. Back, back, back. Come on. Back, and they would say things like, You know, you never let anybody close to you. You oughta... I couldn't do it. It was just a paralysis. So what I do, I just go drink some more. See? So I just go through them, but I could never get a relationship and keep it. I couldn't even tell you how I felt. I didn't recognize feelings. I was 37 years old. It wasn't... It actually wasn't in a certain case. About two months ago, I was telling Deborah, when you feel like this, what is that called? I'm still discovering them. Before that, I went through a thing where I went to a set of steps and everything. I had a whole bunch of them crop up. I didn't know what that name of that was. I never had that. I had to run around trying to find out what is the name of this thing? When you feel like this, when this thing isn't there, what is it? I didn' t know that. But you see, the law is, it doesn' t take account whether you are a child or not. It doesn' T take account for that. It takes account for whether you live in harmony with it or not, if you are raised out of harmony with it then your style of life is going to be a certain way the only catcher is the human being can change and I as a human being it doesn't matter who did what to me bottom line see, is this like a what did I really want this relationship with my uncle after he died and after I started to try to get free of it what I really wanted is I wanted him to come back to life just give me a day with him That would have done it. Then he could have died, and I could have went on, you know, died again, and I Could Have Went Back and Forgiven Him. But he didn't come back. So I spent this time, you see, what's wrong with me? I must have done something wrong and dwelled in that forever. See, really was impetual. Even though I kept it here, it was, it touched every area of my life. There was no area of my own life wasn't touched. Job, relationships with children, relationships, every place. was because of that issue, but I couldn't bring that up. So I hung on to it. But then you would take a look at me. My sister used to call me an en garde. She said it in our language, but it meant en garde See, I could never sit except with my back to the wall. And I always knew where the doors were. See, even at the supper table, I couldnít sit in the middle because we had a large family, like a table. I could Never sit in middle. I had to sit on the end. I couldn't do it. See, and I just eat, never said nothing. Always watching, see? And a lot of those things you see that's happened, like your dad would come up and say, I'm going to ask you the truth. I'm gonna ask you one time, tell me the truth You tell him the truth, bam, right across the room. So pretty soon you learn, you're going to get it anyway, just say nothing. Right, don't say nothing。 So you see, then you start to grow up that way, and then you become very silent. So then, do you not say nothing to him? You take no risk, you tell nobody nothing, unless you want them to know it. Or you might tell them something, you see. To use or to manipulate. But you don't tell them anything. Because if you do, you're going to get it. Does that make sense? now you just take once we come to the stage of identity and these are the teenage years see at the stage of identify this is a very very critical stage for the human being this is the first time in their life that a human being will consciously seek the answer to those three questions teenagers do why am I, who am I and where am I going and that's why you see them doing all those weird things Geez, one day their hair is green and they wear these kind of suits and a week later they're dressed like this. They like this kind of music. So at that identity stage the human being must have this feeling. The feeling of belonging. It has to belong. It's a feeling that it seeks. So you'll see them in clusters. They get little groups. They fight with mom and dad. What kind of musical do you like? Country and western. They like rap. You're out. We're in. So they start to develop, you see, this identity. And you see them do a lot of weird stuff from an adult's point of view. They're just really weird. But they're seeking out... That's why gangs are so effective. See, in our culture, it wasn't that difficult to get an identity because we hunted, we fished, we cured, we tanned, we did all these things. But you take these modern times, hell, you don't need to hunt, you know what I mean? You don't even cook. See, when are you one? When will I get my driver's license? Jeez, I can't wait. 16, hurry up, hurryup, hurryu. Then what's next? Well, drinking. Say 18. Well, I cannot wait to get there so I can be one. So we end up with our identity. See, that's why gangs work so well. If you think about it. See, it's very hard to be somebody. You take native people, come into a big urban society. If we don't have good drum groups and powwows and that kind of stuff where people can start to develop that. Gangs always fill that need of belonging. You know him, he's the Lord. You know her, she's the... So gangs are very, very effective. Now what will happen as we grow up and we don't get an identity? Later on, maybe in the late 30s, you will see very funny behavior among men, for example. You'll see a lot of alcoholism, suicide, A lot of depression. You'll see a lot of them will dump their wives about that age, and they go back and they try to find one in 17, 18, 19, 20. Real young ones. And you'll see them. They'll even dress funny. They'll roll their cigarettes up in their T-shirts again. You know how they used to do, Lucky Strikes or whatever? They roll them up in there and they're dressed in green hats and purple pants and pink socks. And you see them coming to a party. Smack open the door, run to the middle of the living room, jump up on top of the coffee table and they make the announcement. I'm here! The party can begin! See, the kid's here. See, acting like a teenager. Trying to recreate the past. And so we'll see that type of behavior happen later on. Then we get the stage of identity, maybe 19, 20 years old. If you're growing up normally. So it's at that stage we're supposed to be searching, trying new things, finding the answer to those three questions. Who am I? Why am I and where am I going? So once you get... Yes? You were talking about men act that way. Do you know how women go back that way if they don't develop community identity properly? Same way. You'll see a lot of different behaviors in women also doing that. For me, because I know where I'm coming from. But one of the things that you don't hear a whole lot of dialogue about is men trying to catch up emotionally, let alone women. And a lot of the times when I see it, you might hear somebody share at a meeting that you might have known for a long time and they're starting to identify it because we're able to read between the lines a little bit. But it's not talk about openly. I've heard very few women talk about trying to touch up. Like for me, I was a stone-blown alcoholic when I was 15, and like now, probably, maybe I was about 19 or 20. And one of the things that's been exciting for me is because I was sedated during those real important years, like the date, it means a lot to me now. Like even basically just holding hands, something like that, it meant a lot for me. Whereas I see a lot of other people, young or old or adults, take it for granted. And see, with me and my development, I don't take anything for granted anymore. It means a lot to me. But like I said, you don't hear a whole lot of dialogue on it. And I think it's real important that we as men and women should start talking about it and start getting into it. You know, and I don' t know. I'm just excited for myself because, you know, I'm not worried about whether I catch up or not, but it's just being able to identify what I've lost and just kind of holding on to it and just going through my own state. Well, you know, there's more and more Native people are getting a longer-term recovery than we've ever had before, and in larger numbers. But one of the things we're finding in a lot of communities we work in, in recovery, people are stuck. There's like a level you get to and it's like, so? Like, what next? You know, and I think we need to start sharing some of that new stuff everyone is working in. But once again, you think like you're the only one who has it. Yes, I had a birthday on the 21st and since the 21th I've been kind of like going through a renewal phase. So like it's a real exciting time for me and I kind of always feel like I'm in my first year surviving it. Uh-huh. You know, that means a lot to me, you know. But more importantly, I've been able to share that with other people and it's really exciting. And they understand. Sure. Did we answer your question about women's behavior? Well, I don't know. In my experience, when I reached that point where I'm supposed to have identity, I was abused and I shut off. I turned off and I say turned off for many years and then I turned to alcohol. And many of my sisters had babies. Mama was saying they had babies at that time. You know, I had a clinic so I didn't have babies. But for me, I don't recognize what I missed in that development. So I wouldn't even recognize because maybe for men getting up and partying and having sex and going to women is natural for them in that period but for us for us to do that it's aberrant behavior because 14 to 17 women shouldn't be doing that so we aren't really going through our adolescence again when we're doing that we're punishing ourselves so it is a totally different experience But I don't know what that experience is. Debra? I'd like to say something, but I don' want to insult any of us in this room. I love my parents very much, but they were not well. My father is an alcoholic and my mom is an alcoholics as well. Their behavior at the 50 and 70 years old is exactly like it was when they were teenagers. She's got the same hair style she had when she was a teenager. You've got the exact same hair styling as when you were a teenager Their bodies today, their chemistry and emotion, they have not changed. They have raised 11 children and most of my brothers and sisters are either alcoholics or drug addicts the whole time I was growing up, the same scenario played over and over again. You know, he would raise her arms and she would run away and they would get back together but they were locked in this game with each other and they're 60 or 70 years old and that game still takes place and they can't see that they're locked in. They're not well, but they progress physically, they got old physically, their bodies are old, their behavior is bad as a teenager. And women behave that way just like men do. And I don't think necessarily that they see it and I don t think necessarily they do it intentionally. But we're in some of the communities, Indian communities all across the country, see which must be incredibly frustrating for somebody that's 16 or 17 years old if i see those 15 and 17 year olds trying to figure out what they're supposed to be as an adult and what they're looking at or experiencing in the whole community there's a bunch of teenagers in both bodies and they're having a real hard time they get real rebellious and it must be scary if i think about it, I had no idea. I don't know how to resolve conflict. You hit or you run. You are the aggressor or you've run away. Those are your two choices. I'm 41 years old and I'm figuring out now how to get to the other side of conflict. And there can be, everybody can have their own opinion and not be wrong. I was just learning that. You don't You don't understand that intimacy. And when you're 15 or 17 and you're starting to come together with all of this, how do you know what's an adult if you've never seen it or experienced it? You have no idea. I don't know about you guys, but I have these ants and I love them dearly. And I'm dying to have the same kind of ant that everyone else will get. Little curly hair on the top and it's long and straight and curly on the bottom. And it's like they've got stuff in that era. And I'm not saying this for themselves. I'm just saying, I don't think they even see it. And it is like we can't give our children to that next stage if we don't grow up as adults. If we don' t go back and repair that thing, our kids don' te know how to do it. They don' ve known how to use it. You know, some of the lines of what you're talking about. Like when I was growing up, I'm 45 and I look around and I ask questions to other people my age. Well, I felt 45 when I was in the fifth grade. I was ready to retire with all that responsibility that I had, you know, with a job taking care of seven sisters and three brothers. My dad always out looking for my mom, me taking care and my mother, you know. I was an old man. You know, when I got out of the high school, I was ready to go out and practice. I really was, you know. I was the hero too in my family. Yes. Oh, we need that now. We all went to college. And you do see that. And I was my mother's mother. And I took care of everyone. And I'm not saying I'm anywhere near well. I'm saying I'm still learning too. And for those heroes You see, that's one of the things I appreciate in my writing, but it's starting to lighten up. The important thing for me is to be able to recognize a lot of things and accept them for what they are, but I'm explaining to myself, you know? All right, we've got a friend here. From a woman's point of view, I knew exactly what he was talking about when he put his cigarettes in his sleeve and went to the party and said, jump on the coffee table and sit out here. Well, I didn't hear that he went to a party chasing women or anything like that, that kind of thing. It was more of a personhood type thing and identifying myself in some way and expecting you to recognize and accept me when we're bothering him back out there. Sometimes if you don't recognize your face, it's possible to say that these issues have to be resolved because and how they're going to be solved. I mean, we certainly don't recognize the people who do the work. It's like if you're in a session and you can't relate to it, maybe you need to go back up and reintroduce it before it's that kind of thing. You know, maybe it's something else that's not resolved. But maybe I would think around the moralization issue I was talking to Sue Elder yesterday, or the day before yesterday. And I asked her, I says, what is shame? You know, looking at it from a culture point of view. And she sat there for a long time. And she come back and she says, shame is the deepest wound that a human being can experience. Shame is the, of all of them, that is the deepest one. And I just thought about that. because that's a lot, you know, of what we have. Many of us, how we have been raised, those are the types of things we need to work in the recovery process is to find a lot of that because it's inside of ourselves. Go ahead. Yeah, I'm really excited to talk about two of our things when you're talking about the man and how he's dressed. And I went through this. You know, in recovery, I went though this. I'm not an alcoholic. I'm an alimony. But what I found myself doing in recovery after I'd been in a while was that I realized that I never honored my femininity. You know, it's like growing up as a teenager, I mean, I'd look nice, curl my hair, you know, do the makeup, but then always growing up with responsibility, I was also that 45-year-old woman, which is exactly what my mother did. My mother, like, never went through adolescence. So like immediately she was this 45 year old woman. Having had a child at 17, I was ready to be that 45 year old woman and so what ended up happening was that I gained a lot of weight, you know, 35, 40 pounds, no longer had that picture of femininity. You know, it was like I was just this big thing. No feminine, no masculine, I'm just a being, you know. Because also because I was afraid. I was scared of being attractive because what happens? What if you are? What if, uh, you have to deal with all the feelings and saying no is that what you were talking about? So what I ended up doing in recovery once I lost some of that weight was that I started to dress and to act inappropriately. You know, wearing clothes that didn't really... It looks great on a young teenager. I mean, how many times do you walk down the street and you see women who are in their 40s or something and it's like, you go, why does she dress like that? You know, it's just like, that doesn't look great on her teenage daughter. And I did all that stuff. I did that trying to reclaim that part of me that I lost when I'm a 40-year-old woman, you know, in a 12-year old body. Sure. Jay? I'm an alcoholic. There are a lot of things in here that are really good, and it's really important that we ask these questions and also that we take back to people we sponsor some of the solutions that we're hearing. I believe a number of us, because we grew up in dysfunctional families, are stuck in the survival mode because of how we grewup. And it's the only way we know. And so for me, getting into recovery and trying to do some of recovery steps, I always go back to that, and a lot of times I catch myself doing it not because it's even justified. It's just the snap reaction, and so for me, sharing with other alcoholics and being involved in something like this is really important because it gives me an opportunity to listen how other Indian people, how we survive in the world, you know? And actually after survival, we've come to live, Right at that point, I'm learning to trust. Just barely learning to trust. I'm a year sober and I'm just now developing a sense of trust in non-Indian people. It's taken a long time. A long time and I think that search for identity that comes with adolescence is something that I'm getting in touch with. And so it's important that as alcoholics to continue to work the steps of recovery, especially in the end-to-ends. Because in the ending-toes, I believe that we begin to find some of those issues that keep us from becoming the people we can be. Okay. Thanks, Jerry. I had a question on your medicine wheels that, you know, for the areas of development. It sounds or seems to me like when these kids grew up in the 50s and BIAs were there, Well, one of the things that you touched on is really critical for us to look at as Native in part of recovery. And we find that this is really critical for many of the tribes and us as individuals. And there was this one point, I was, when I come in a sober, I was very angry. I mean, almost violent. That's the only thing I knew. So as I worked through that, there was just one thing, there were certain things, if I would just hear about the story like the walk of our people or I would hear about other thing happens to other Indians, you know, a long time ago. I get very rageful. I mean, just get really pissed about it. And I say, look, then was then, now is now. What's the matter with you? But one of the things we, like when we work in the communities that we find is very important for us to look at and recover is this intergenerational healing. And that means this. When they started a longtime ago, to boarding schools, some of the Indian schools that was really initiated by the Department of War. And it was a strategy to assimilate Native people back into dominant culture. And that's documented. That's not like a secret. But when they grew up and all the ways that they got the kids into the schools the ones that they got in there which was a large portion of our, of the children then, but they were successful in that they taught them, hey, being Indian, don't speak your language. Don't speak your culture. See? Don't do no ceremonies. Don' t do this. And they grew up being quite successful for the most part. Then what do you happen when those kids got married and how did they raise their children? hate being Indian don't speak your language the culture is bad then they have a grown up and then they raise children we work with youth right now that have not attended boarding school and they are have boarding school behavior you can recognize it the way that they talk and the way that they are punished by their parents is the way boarding school was punished three or four generations ago they make them kneel on things. They do the same thing to them. So sometimes today, we don't know why. I mean, there's some level sometimes that is just like when I started going back to the culture. My mom was waiting in boarding school. So I started to want to relearn the language and letting my hair grow long again. Made her mad. She said, Why are you letting your hair grow like that? That's stupid. And don't be speaking that language around here. I don't want to be hearing it here, you know? And I started to see that this, I grew up that way. There's some things happen in boarding school directly affects us even as recovery people. I talked to an elder in our, because I've been interested in this, boarding schools, and I'm starting to understand I have boarding school behavior in primary recovery. I have to look at, it's not, I'm not trying to blame anyone. See, I'm fully accountable for my growth. It doesn't matter if my uncle molested me. If that happens, I'm accountable to change myself because I want to be happy. But I talked to this elder. He said, he's an uncle of mine. But he said, we went to mission school. First day they got there at night and they put them all in class or to bed and everything. But they brought them over the next morning and a priest brought them into the school and he said I want to have a talk with you all about your behavior and about how I want you to mind me. So he talked to him, the elder said, then he took him downstairs, they have a furnace there and he talked with him about doing exactly what he said that he didn't want to be, you know. But then what he did was he had all his kids lying in front of this furnace and he reached in this box, he took a lid off that box, he pulled out a cap and he opened up that door and he just threw that cat in the furnace alive and shut that door. You know, and this older, he's like 87, just broke down and cried. That type of hurts. A lot of us are raised by people have experienced many, many things like that. And when we look at getting in recovery, where do we get stuck? That's the things we've got to start looking at. You know, when they start to surface, to understand there's other things intergenerationally that has affected us, most of us are ... There's a lot of sexual molestation went on in the boarding school. Nobody wants to say that, but sometimes we're working with some elders, they'll tell you what went on there and it wasn't pleasant. There was people, women, know some, is early 40s, younger than me, that were sterilized when they were in boarding school with no medicine or nothing. They held them down on tables. That went on. That wasn't like in the 1800s. They're now healing and processing that kind of stuff. So I think part of recovery is to look at intergenerational stuff also because many of us are... It's like i started to understand why my parents were like they were it was just all of a sudden my relationship with him changed because i didn't know you know it's like you don't know what you don't i said how could an indian parent tell their children to don't be indian don't be speaking your language don't go back to the culture it's bad leave it alone don't go that. Now I understand. Before, I couldn't understand. Does that make sense? And those are the things like when we are in recovery along the periods, we need to start even looking at that and see what is that effects on us. Because even some of the children now, that's It's still happening today in many other schools. How many of you are used to boarding school, just out of curiosity? I see quite a few. Alright. I heard you say something about that cycle in the truck, and I'm in a confusing area right now. I'm a single parent. I've had my kid ever since he was three days old and I'm at home. And I'm doing the best I can to raise him. And coming from an alcoholic family, and my father in recovery, you know, and I see his... It makes sense what you said about the different changes me and my father have in one area and I'm in another. When we connect, we explode. And I see myself taking those same things home with me when I go home. And then seeing myself reacting to my kids sometimes like Sometimes it's kind of hard to... I heard what Al was saying about trust. You know, and it's like how do you... I'm confused about what are you supposed to do when you're telling someone and then you can't do it because we have other responsibilities. I mean, it's, like, I clean my own house, my own laundry. You know, and he's a very big coward, you know. And then tell him, well we'll go ride bikes, and then I have the time, and oh I'm pumped, I'm hooked up and tired. You know what do you do in situations like that? You know I'm not here to hurt my kids. I have no intention of hurting my kids, and I don't know how to balance that. You know, when you see the same thing as building, 28 years old, 29 years old. You know? And I see those same things with my dad telling me something and then, you know, it's going to change. And I can't figure out the balance for that. And I don't know how to get a balance for myself. Well, when we get into steps this afternoon, into the workshops, we'll be looking at a lot of that. because I think when you start to look at understanding the interconnectedness and a lot of the things about the steps, I think that a person has the ability to really look forward to the steps as an interconnected system that allows each individual to really accelerate growth. It isn't about wallowing in it forever. It's about learning where to focus. it's sort of like you can't fix that what you don't know is broke. And very often we focus so much on a couple of things we think we're all screwed up. You know, it's like your car doesn't run, you take it to the garage, you say, your car's all messed up, it's all broke, it's going to cost me millions to do it. You take it there, first thing that has to be done is to identify where it's broke. Carburetor needs to be adjusted, brakes need to be fixed, you got a flat tire. We do those three things, it can start running. but we say everything is broke but we're not as broke as we would like to think that we are but it's a matter of locating that right place and then learning to use tools on focus and to live a balanced life it could have made a harmonious system because we were alcoholic forever, went out and did some stuff it doesn't mean I have to wait for 15 years before I can have a harmonius life. It's to the degree that I come back and work with the principle laws and values and then it starts to happen, right? So we'll take a look at that part of the steps this afternoon on how to really, how to identify things quickly and make adjustments and not tear ourselves up in the process of recovering. you know like a key issue right now he's able to identify if there's something possibly wrong and he's willing to do something about it by giving for myself you know like i enjoyed being a parent and i want to always be a good parent And I, whenever I see anything free for parenting classes, I go. You know? And I learn. And then I take it and I try it out and if it doesn't work, then I look for another word to use. But you know, it works. You know, but I think he's on the right track because he's just able to identify it right now. And it sounds to me like he's willing to work on it. Let me talk about that. Yes. And I've never seen a preview of it. There's no record, no music, no tape, not one person. Nothing. I'm there since 2012. But I had Al-Anon for support and did Burroughs, Portland, and Pittsburgh twice in two years. I got hurt, and then I got invalidated by all those kids, none of them were kids. Like, I had brain cancer from my dad, and my granddad was later in the military and killed me. And then I've got these with arms off, you know, belted workhorses that have full strength, My dad was stronger than I was, and he never ever hit me again. I was out for a long time at that time, but it's been a hell of a time. But the kids, they taught me. I need to learn what a kid who works hard in this government needs to know, and I learned it again. All the kids being more than I did. Thanks. Okay. looking at these developmental stages, they trigger a lot of good things. But we're really just trying to set up to do that. This afternoon we'll learn mind mapping, how to trigger more. We're going to workshop in groups, capitalizing one another's experiences where that's appropriate for us to share something. But we'd like to finish these stages because I think they are very, very important yet. When we get through our age of our late teens, like 19, 20, that's the first time that it's sort of like at that point we can walk off a stage of life. Like pretty much just like before that we've been acting, you know, trying to figure all this stuff out. But once we get our identity, we know why we are who we are and where we're going. It's like you can get off that stage finally, like when you're 20, and you say, like, I now know who I am. I know my strengths I know my weaknesses I know my strengths I know my weaknesses and if you don't like it stuff it right it's like you get off that stage of life you're just not around like people pleasing but then you believe next we will go to this stage of intimacy and this will happen between maybe the 20s 20s to 30s or so and it's at that age a human being needs to develop the ability you to share their feelings. It's about building relationships. I need to be able to tell you my opinion whether you agree with me or not. See, I need to be able to share that. Let's see like college students. You'll notice this in the student union whatever they just talk. Talk, talk, talk. And they come home from school and they have opinions on everything. They know the government should run. This is screwed up. That's bad. Tribal council is like this. Gee, school hired that one. Look at that jerk. An agency of opinions on everything, you know, when they're in that. Now, you'll see them even talking to one another. You'll see one talking, the other one's listening. You ever notice that other one is not listening? They're thinking the up-onesmanship story, just waiting for them then to get done. See, then they go back and they say, oh, you think your mother was bad? Let me tell you about my mother, how bad she was, see? So they start to switch stories back and forth. Now,you see, these things are like building. So let's just say that I am in this age, or as a human being in relationships. Do you think I have the ability to be intimate in relationships if I don't know who I am? Do you thing I have ability to effective in relationships, if I cannot trust? do you think I have the ability to be intimate in relationships if I don't have these feelings about myself I'm good at something, I'm great for something feelings see but I have the ability to come back in areas where I'm off I can rebuild myself so a lot of times if I'm having issues in relationships I gotta take a look at the steps there's other key things I need to notice when I look at unmanageability I'm writing inventory, I'm looking for these patterns I need to be able to see these patterns you see where I am off track then knowing and working step 10 and 11 is where I go and rebuild myself back so I get that right away we don't need to wallow in it forever because very often if we don' t know these things so if I have issues in relationships The relationship is not the issue There's something I need to look at inside of myself So how do I go find that So I can change that So as I come back And I can Discover what that is Then you'll see relationships will improve But when I get through this Intimacy Then I go to this age of generativity And this might be In our 40s to 50s And Generativity is then the need for the human being to go be, to do something for others. I have to be a giving person. You see, a lot of people will just be involved in volunteer work and they do all sorts of stuff just free. In other words, they do it not for credit or glory or to get something back. They just do it because they have to do it. It just makes them feel good. So you see, at that point we're, prior to that we're takers but we'll get to that age of generativity then all of a sudden we've got to go and do something. You've just got to do it in order to be happy. Then we enter the age of the elders, the stage of integrity. That stage of integrity of the elders, at that point, if you notice, if you ever watch elders have integrity, you just kind of see a worthwhileness to all things when you go there. you're like a mouse just wound up on this little thing and they just sit there and they kind of see it all connected even the conflict they just see a worthwhileness to all things usually when you have integrity or you're at that stage of the altar by then you have developed your own set of codes by which you live your life like when we were younger, a lot of times if you're honest, the real reason we don't do things is because I might get caught and that's the reason I don't do them? If I knew I wouldn't get caught, I'd give it a go. But I better not because I might get caught. But see the others, they've gotten past that. They just do it because it's not right for them. They seem to have a philosophy that it's okay to be who you are. You don't have to be like how they think to be okay. It's okay if you're young. It It's okay to be a breed, it's okay to be white and this. It's ok to be man, it's ok not to work. You don't see them well what is your amount of blood? Are you traditional or are you an urban one that you know nothing about here? They don't spend their time getting things in buckets and categories and all that. It's OK if you're Indian this much you're an Indian you're alright. You don't see them getting all hung up, you see, like we are sometimes. So what I thought I would do is just kind of show that those developmental stages before we take a look at the steps so we have a form of reference that when we start to look at unmanageability and we start looking at those that were looking at the creator did make a path for the human being to grow mentally healthy. Many of us did not have an opportunity to do that. So it's not mom's fault, it's no dad's fault. It's not the way I was born's fault. The issue is I am accountable to correct my life. It doesn't matter who did it. Later on this afternoon we'll also talk about the ability to forgive the unforgivable. But there certain things sometimes that we need to do if I want to have the style of life that sobriety has to offer. Sobriety is just not about not drinking. It's about another whole style of us coming back to all those things that is available to us in our culture. And it's about living. So we'll talk about those things. Do you want to get those lights? Because you see, if we take a look at, very often when we are measuring things, we're always looking at results. You ever ask yourself, where do results come from? Every result will be preceded by an action. It cannot be no other way. The Creator made everything to run by a system of laws. So then you say, well, where did actions come from ? You ever notice? You've got to think them. They don't just magically appear. So if I think a certain thing, it causes an action, shows the result in my life. Well, where does thinking come from? Well, it comes from here, the human being. Basically, the human brain is 98% of everything that we do is run by eight thought patterns. It's not like it's all as complicated as we think. There's just thought patterns we do and we just repeat them. Then we say, what is it that drives the being? It's our will. Our free will. The creator designed us to function from free will. And what is it drives our will? Our spirit and intent. So we want to change the results. See there's this definition of insanity it says you can't keep thinking what you're thinking and doing what you are doing and expect different results. Right? You want different results then something has to change to change that result. And that's how we'll be looking at the steps from an Indian point of view alright any comments? alright so when we come back from our lunch we're going to take this and apply it to the to the 12 steps to see how does all these concepts fit into the 12th steps so we're starting at let's start at 1.02 two minutes after one two minutes after one, 1.0.2 we'll start go on to the next step and I think there was one important thing I guess my own experience when I first got into looking at doing the steps and I talked to a sponsor about that was remember in this one diagram oops one diagram here we talked about that flow of results and what it says there basically is that the human being never does anything unless the will says it's okay. So everything always has to pass through the will. I will do this or I will not do this. Then depending upon which way I go then the results go. And the reason for that is that the Creator designed us to function from free will. and that if we do anything other than a free will, then we are designed to push back or not do it. So if I could just pick on you, if I have you put your hand on mine, if you would, if you notice, as soon as I push without saying a word, it pushes back. But if I ask, could I push your hand, then you get cooperation. Now that's physically. We are designed that any time anyone pushes us, we push back. was also designed, we are designed mentally to push back anytime something is against our will. You're supposed to. See, true motivation to get the full force, the first full motivation is always when we do something on a want-to, choose-to like it, love it. I want to do that. I choose to do the steps I'd love to do them I want to I want to walk the red road but as soon as the mind hears I have to it has a little mechanism that wakes up and says oh no you don't I'll get you out of it so it very creatively kicks in the system to have you go do something else you get procrastination oh I'll do it tomorrow see so this voice in a sense this force starts to kick in to get us to not do it. So we always function at that level of the free will. So what I'm saying there is that really applies a lot when you come to working steps. Why are you working steps? Well, I have to so I don't get drunk. Not. See, that little voice wakes up and says, no, no you don't. See, I'll get you out of it. So, what we're saying is, if you telling yourself you have to work the step because my sponsor says i have to that little thing wakes up and say i'll get you out of it so it starts all these little plans to divert you to do something else now there are no have-tos in the whole world except one see you don't have to walk steps to stay sober there are thousands of people in aa staying sober and they never work a lick of steps in their lives. Now, they're miserable as shit. Now, that's true. You see, the only catcher is you make the choice. You have to take the consequence. So, like getting sober or whatever is sort of like a banquet. On that banquet as many things are available. Steak, lobster, buffalo T-bone, whatever. But then it works its way down to meatloaf and cheeseburgers and on this end is peanut butter. So, if you want peanut butter sobriety, see, then you don't get state by not working steps. You can get peanut butter sobrity, but the only problem with that is peanut butter always sticks to the roof of your mouth, you know? Love my sobriery. So, what I'm saying is, in looking at the steps, if he was saying you have to do it, don't do it because you won't anyway. right not only you but you have a mental resistance because it's designed we're only designed to function from free will so the only catcher is is there are no have to's really in the whole world except one is we have to die but pretty much everything else is a matter of choice so you don't have to pay taxes see don't pay them now there's a catcher there's always a consequence for every choice. You don't pay taxes, you end up in jail. Well, that's true. But you do not have to pay taxes. Now, you get in jail, you can get out of jail in one day or maybe two at the most if you're in jail and you want to get out. Hang yourself so you'd be out in a pine box. That's true but I don't want to, see, die. Well then, shut up and pay your taxes. See, we do it on the want to choose to like it, love it. So, I think it's important for a person to think just a little bit about that in terms of steps. You do not have to work steps to stay sober. Honest to God, you don't. Don't do it. But there's a consequence for that. But if you want to be free, want the freedom, you want the promises, you want whatever that is, then steps will get you that. So if you want that, see, then do it on the one to choose to like it or love it. Not because you have to because you don't. A lot of people stay sober and never work steps but they never taste the honey either. So this is about tasting the honey of life. So I think it's very, very important to take a look at deciding. See what works in the decisions is I choose to do this. I want to do that. So then you align all the powers of will and you don' t have that little resistance thing. You know, if you ever notice when you tell yourself you have to do something. You ever notice that you very creatively go do something else and say, geez, I intended to do that. I have to be creative to do this today or else. And then it seems like we never end up doing it. So I think it's important to come to terms with that. You're going to work the steps and do them because you want to because you really won't anyway. If you tell yourself you haveと do them you won't.