Working With Others – Big Book – Tim – Workshop – Neptune, NJ – Part 18 of 18 – Local AA Speakers

Big Book Tim. Let's welcome him to the Grove 2-Hour Video. And the Godmobile? Good evening everyone, I'm a recovered alcoholic called Big Book Kim. And the godmobile, that's very funny. Alright, so we left off last week on page 94. We're in the chapter of working with others. and as I said last week it doesn't say telling others what to do it doesn' t say judging others, it doesn''t say talking with others it says working with others because if you're in this process working with another alcoholic to try to help save their life, because that's the business that we're in here, saving lives it's work you know, we've got to listen to what they have to say especially when they don't want to and you pick up the phone and you see them calling and you hit reject and every so often we answer and we say, yeah, what's up today? And it's important to remember for me anyway that I was them. You know, but for the grace of God in going through this work I was there. So it's importante for me to pass this on because it was passed on to me freely, you know. So last week we left off with talking about challenging the person who, you know, is, I'm into my religion. You know, and I have God, and I go to church, and all that stuff. And really kind of challenging them and saying, well, that's great. That's fabulous. Because most of the time, people who have a sense of their religious God have a head start on the program as far as I see it. Or it can be detrimental. Most of the times it's a headstart. Because they have a general idea of what God is for them. so they're able to go to take that God and really start to develop a new relationship with that God you know so it's important to challenge that and say you know what you probably know more about it than I do but you're obviously not applying it or else you wouldn't be getting drunk all the time you'd be able to rely upon that higher power that God that you think is going to restore you to sanity and then you wouldn'T be sitting here talking to me because you'd have it you know so that's the bust through there So, on page 94, you know, that first paragraph he talks, he gives us directions for being given 12-step directions. And it says this, outline the program of action. Explaining how you make a self-appraisal, how you straighten out your past, why you're now endeavoring to be helpful to him. It's important for him to realize that your attempt to pass this on plays a vital part in your own recovery. Remember, vital. Necessary for life. actually he may be helping you more than you are helping him I remember like I said last week it was like be careful of that because then you get the people saying you know what, I'm helping you and it's like oh ok why don't you just sit down and be quiet and you can help me by doing that how about that so he goes on to say make it plain he is under no obligation to you but you only hope that he will try to help other alcoholics when he escapes his own difficulties suggest how important it is that he placed the welfare of other people ahead of his own hey look at that, other people ahead of their own it's kind of the opposite of selfish isn't it it's a selfish program make it clear he is under no pressure that he needs to see you again if he doesn't want to you should not be offended if he wants to call it off for he has helped you more than you have helped him if your talk has been sane soundness of mind quiet and full of human understanding you have perhaps made a friend that's pretty important to me there's been many times I've been doing 12 step work and sitting down with people who are struggling with their drinking they want help they want to know what I know but they don't want to do this because this is hard it's hard it's strenuous it's rigorous and who the freak wants to do that can I just go to meetings? Okay, you can do that. We'll talk in a year when we last, you know, whatever. So what happens for me is that if I see that the person that I'm dealing with really doesn't want this, I kind of like drop the subject altogether. And I say, well, you know... And maybe if there's some sort of commonality, maybe some sports or, you knows, as most of you know I enjoy theater. If there's something there, maybe music, anything. you know I try to make a plan because what I know is that I'll give you an example from my life you know being in the theater lots of people who are drinkers in the theatre and I was sober about nine years and I walked into an audition and there was a woman in the audition that I had directed like eight years before and she was so excited to see me and not because of like the show she was excited to see me because she was dying from alcoholism and had nowhere to go with it. Can you imagine that? Not knowing where to go without alcoholism. And she saw me, she said, oh, I need to talk to you. And when she said that, I knew what she wanted to talk with me about. So I always thank God that I stuck with this. That I never said, you know what? You're drunk. Don't ever talk to me. You know, I availed myself of the possibility that, you you know what, if you're ever ready and you ever need help, you know where to find me. And God provided that opportunity and put us in the same place. And as a result of that, I was able to sit down and talk about this process, take her to AA, introduce her to the room, and say, fly, go ahead, goodbye. And that was 2001. And supposedly she's still sober today. I mean, I have a friend who knows her significant other and they're at a gathering and she's still sober. So by not turning my back on her nine years before that, I essentially stuck the hand of AA out there and said, listen, when you want help, I'll be here. And she grabbed onto it. So it's really important for me to recognize that I'm not just a crusader for alcoholics and artists, that I'm a human being first and I'm providing an example of what recovery can do in people's lives so that's kind of important for that there and here's my favorite part I'm sure you guys who know me can understand this because maybe you have disturbed him about the question of alcoholism and here this is great this is all to the good the more hopeless he feels the better he will be more likely to follow your suggestions right now I talk about this and I've been talking about this for weeks that people who have ideas you know, you might as well try and pound nails into the floor with your head with these kind of people. Because they know. Yeah I know. Yeah I don't. But you don't understand. Yeah I do. But I got it all. No I'm going to do this. You know. Okay let me see how that works for you. Right? So the more desperate somebody is that they're like done and they don't have ideas anymore Well, I love that because then they're willing. They're willing, a cheerful choice, eagerly compliant. They're ready to go. Come on. Listen, I know it's going to sound stupid because it sounds stupid to me, but why don't you just give it a try? You know, like, I was thinking of my first sponsor. He had said to me... You know Tim, if you put one-tenth the effort into this as you did into getting drunk, you'll never drink again. So I said to him, well, what if it doesn't work? He said, you can tell me to go after myself. I said, I'm in. Right? That was a win-win for me because he gave me this opportunity. Like, okay, so my thought process was, all right, I'm going to do what you tell me to do. And if it doesn't work, I get that big payoff at the end. I get to go get drunk and pay to go have your son. Okay? Now, when I was new, that sounded like a great prospect because I was still that guy who walked in the door. You know, I still had a different mentality about drinking, about my alcohol. I hadn't... Oh, you're taking that away from me and I wasn't free yet. I wasn'T recovered yet. So I still had that obsession. Like any time things went wrong, you know, I was the solution drinker, right? So, I was willing to do what I was told. And I was like a kid with him. You know, I'd ask him, hey, what should I do about this? What should I... And he'd tell me. And a lot of times I'd feel like, no, that's stupid. I'm not doing that, you know. And he would always say, Well, you know best, Tim. So I'd have to do what he said to do because I'd made that agreement. Because I believed, I trusted that this man had my best interest in mind and he wasn't going to tell me to do something that was detrimental to myself. And I had to do that because I was dying. Right? I was died. The best that I could do was get to AA. So then Bill continues. He says, Your candidate may give reasons why he may not follow all of the program. Candidate, I love that. We're going to elect you. You're the new drunk. He may rebel at the thought of a drastic house cleaning, which requires discussion with other people. Right? So now there he is, Bill's writing and he's proving what he needs to say earlier in the, okay, yeah, did your house clean? Solitary self appraisal is insufficient. You need to discuss with somebody requires, there's that word. Do not contradict such views to whom you once felt as he does but you doubt whether you would have made much progress had you not taken action. On your first visit tell him about the Fellowship of Alcoholics and Hotties. If he shows interest check this out. Rent him your copy of this book. Aren't we supposed to take him to a meeting? and that's what it's supposed to spread a copy of this book for those of you who have been following the display of books for weeks the new one up here is Alcohol Synonymous Comes of Age it was written in 1955 and published in 1957 Bill Wilson wrote it and it's the telling of the process of recovery and the spreading of alcohol synonymous through this book and I was reading it last night and I thought I was quite overwhelmed by it it brought me to tears that's how overwhelmed I was by it because this little chip of a book enabled lives and families to be reconstructed saved millions of lives throughout the years this book because the stories talk about people getting together two or three alcoholics together and that was going on there were people doing that but people weren't staying sober because they didn't have the program of recovery as laid out in this book and story after story after story of Australia and Japan this was great, they had two different kinds of AA in Japan, they have a 12 step program like ours that was free, then they had a 10 step program that cost you 100 yen isn't that amazing I'd like to know what that one was that's probably the selfish program so this book lend them a copy of this book what's that it's Al-Anon Al-A-An believe me Al-Al-An costs you a lot more money so just lend them a copy of this book right let me continue unless your friend wants to talk further about himself, do not wear out your welcome. Don't want, hey, see you. Give him a chance to think it over. If you just stay, let him steer the conversation in any direction he likes. Right? How often do we say, all right, no, no. We've got to talk about drinking. No, no one's talking about it. We've Got to Talk About Drinking. No, but I have this problem with my ex-wife and she took my kid and blah, blah, yeah, blah, I got to go. No,no,no. Let's talk about drink. Well, that's not what this says. You steer the conversion of the conversation any way you want because you need to know these things. Okay? Because through that process, that's what they want to achieve through recovery. Okay? So we need to have that in mind when we're working with somebody and saying, oh yeah, that's right, they're having problems with their ex. The kid's involved, all this stuff. I don't have kids. I need to make sure I find people who may have gone through this. That's one of the beautiful things about it. You can find anybody who's gone through anything today. You know? It's just, oh no, I don' t, but listen, I know this guy. Let me talk to him and see if I can get him. Okay, yeah, give him a call whenever you have problems with the kids and all that give him a call because I'm an idiot with that I can't help you and I'm not going to be pretentious and say you tell me everything I'll tell you what to do but then I'd just be an idiot alright sometimes a new man is anxious to proceed at once you may be tempted to let him do so this is sometimes a mistake if he has trouble later he's likely to say you rushed him you would be most successful with alcoholics if you do not exhibit any passion for crusade or reform. Never talk down to an alcoholic from a moral or spiritual hilltop. Simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection. Show him how they work with you. Offer him friendship and fellowship. Tell him that if he wants to get well, check this out. You will do anything to help. It doesn't say well you know you can call me but don't call me past 10 o'clock you have to meet me at a meeting you have called me every day I have rules rule book it says you will do anything to help anything to health now don't get me wrong we're going to get into like limitations to that but it's so important because we just talked about that on the page before this is vital to my own recovery to do that because I don't want anybody else you know like oh I don'T WANT TO GO Oh, wait a minute. That's right. I agreed at the beginning that I would go to any lengths for victory over asshole. At the beginning. The beginning is a long time ago for me. Right? But I agree to that. So I have to continue to do that because that's what God has charged me to do. So he continues. If he's not interested in your solution A what? A solution. Sounds like a remedy. Sounds like you should become recovered. a cure. Ooh. Right? If he expects you to only act as a banker for his financial difficulties, or a nurse for his sprees, you may have to drop him until he changes his mind. This he may do after he gets hurt some more. Right? Now what do we do all the time? We protect the newcomers. We don't tell them the truth about things. Why? Because people want to hurt their feelings. Please. People didn't mind hurting my feelings. You know what I mean? And I thank God they didn't. They told me the truth, right? There's an expression that I love. You won't find it anywhere, but I love it. It says, if we bathe in you, we bury you. I mean, how many times do you see that? You know, people come in and, you know, there's groups, there's the social groups, right, newcomer in the room, and it's just like, I talk about this all the time, and it becomes like hyena, it's not like a gazelle, you know like, oh, you're new! here's my number I can't get the meetings just call me are they an alcoholic? give it here to AA they must be an alcoholic if they're in AA well maybe they just need a court card or something maybe they just want to get people off their back you know dad's bugging mom's buggy wife's bug anything you know oh no no no they must not they must stay here we have this wonderful AA tote bag you know We have a solution, right? Then I'm going to drink. I say this all the time. We're not here to stop anybody from drinking. It's not our job. Alcoholics Anonymous' job is not to stop people from drinking Our job is to give somebody the opportunity and the hope to stay stopped when they're ready. That's what happened, right? And we have a program to do it. Over and over and over in the book he says, let me go drink. Go ahead, bye. And it said that. Don't be, don't exhibit any passion for crusade or reform. Right, that group. The Washingtonians did that. They had this solution. They were like 5,000 strong 100 years before we existed. Isn't that amazing? 100 years ago. 100 years, before we exist, there was a group that had the solution to alcoholism of God and getting rid of the things that block you from that and helping each other do that. And then they got involved with being a temperance movement. Now everybody is quit drinking because we quit drinking. You know people like that don't you? In AA? I'm a drunk that's how everyone's drunk. You're definitely a drunk. You know it's all that crap. And people are going to stand for that. So they went away because they did that. Oh and then they got involved in politics and they were telling the world how they need to behave and they went away. Right? Because that's what they were doing. So, Bill continues. He says, if he is sincerely interested and wants to see you again, oh, what does he say here? Ask him to read this book in the interval. Doesn't say come a little meeting. Doesn't say come to 1990. Doesn't say hey, I'll be your temporary sponsor. It says let him think it over if he's interested because you're already giving him a book right I'm a little selfish with my book yes it's on record now I'm selfish nobody's getting this book however I will bring a book the big book Alcohol Synonymous here you want here you go it's all yours and I always say if you don't like it it's you know it's great you can put two drinks on it so and generally my experience has been that people that I actually get to go and have a 12-step call with. They're usually convalescing, so their head really isn't there yet. So I say, listen, I'll be back. Here's the book. Here's my number. If you want to give me a call, give me your number. I'll call you. I'll talk to you. I'll tell you. If you, if you want an opening up, read something, read the doctor's opinion. See if you identify with it. See if any of that applies to you because that's enough for people to go, hey, wait a minute. Hey, wait another minute. I do that. Hey, wait a minute. I think that way. Hey, wait a min- You know, there's those hey, wait a minutes moments. I mean, that's what meetings are about really anyway. They're about hey, wait a moment. It's a whole room full of people going yeah, we get it. We drank too much. We wrapped cars around poles. We worked them. We cheated on our spouses. We cheated on our boyfriends. We cheated on taxes. Cheated, lying, cheat, thief. That's us. Next. Welcome. Trust us. Ha ha ha ha! Yeah! so he can do this after doing that he must decide for himself whether he wants to go on he must decide for himself whether he wants to go on it's not up to us to say you need to do this because now we're talking down from a spiritual hilltop right now we're lecturing do you want to go on you want to do this let's go hey I'm ready you know let's do it no no problem and it says He says he should not be pushed or prodded by you, by his wife, or his friends. And here's a condition. If he is to find God, the desire must come from within. It can't come from a whole bunch of people sitting in AA going, he needs to find god. You want to find him? Come on, let's go find god! And it's like, well I didn't know he was lost. You know what I mean? Like, it has to come from within. I want what you have. Oh, you do? Okay, well this is what we need to do. here's what I did right I did this I did a fourth step I wrote stuff down I talked to this person I talked I made amends you know this is what I do now this sucked you know that's what I need to do here this is it here's your toolkit you know Apex School of Recovery we teach we show you how to use the tools and your tools are yours to keep when you go we have the big book we have this book we have half of the 12 and 12 because you know how I feel right We have meetings. We have coffee commitments. All this fun stuff. Now, here's an argument against the AA is the only way. If he thinks he can do the job in some other way or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his own conscience. We have no monopoly on God. We merely have an approach that works with us. Then there's a warning. would point out that we alcoholics have much in common and that you would like, in any case, to be friendly. Let it go with that. God bless you. Right? So there's this. You know, Alcoholics Anonymous, the only way that works is the only one you're going to find God, and that's it. Well, that's not what this says. Why go to church? Great! That's fabulous. Let me know if that works. That's cool because, hey, if somebody doesn't respond to this, I'm going to send them to you. hey you know there's this great church down the road they get up and they sing and they clap and they play music and they go and they help people and they take over go check that out give it a shot maybe you'll find God there no problem sit here good no hey you want to talk about the Giants hey no problem give me a call but if you want to talk about recovery this is what I do if you don't want to do this don't ask me about recovery boundaries lines right alright so continue on I always laugh at this I'm sure some of you have heard this I always like to indulge just because I think it's funny and fun and we need to have fun in Alcoholics Anonymous or new people wouldn't want what we have as far as I'm concerned You know, somebody said Hey, I heard in this big book there's something about sex, right? And he said Yeah, yeah, yeah It's on page 69 but the guy happened to be dyslexic So he went to page 96 and he read about sex He says Do not be discouraged if your prospect does not respond at once search out another alcoholic and try again you are sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness what you offer we find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot or will not work with you if you leave such a person alone he may soon become convinced he cannot recover by himself Okay. So, you know, in the all seriousness of it, those are really great directions for trying to deal with new prospects for the program of Alcohol Synonymous. Right? We don't need to chase people. Wait! You're going to come to a meeting and it's a great meeting tomorrow. We don'T need to do that. We don' t need to. We have what you want. You want what we have? This is what we did. No? Okay, good luck. See you at church. No problem. See you to bar. No problem, right? Alright, so then he goes on He says to spend too much time On any one situation Is to deny some other alcoholic Of opportunity to live And be happy Right? How many times do we hear about that? I mean, I'm guilty of it You know, because you get attached to people Because they're human And you have feelings Because we start to feel When it gets over You know And you just keep Jesus, what's the story Going to be this time? You know And it becomes It's very difficult To say Listen Listen, if you're not going to do what I tell you to do, I'm not going to talk to you. I'm NOT going to work with you. Because my sobriety, my sanity, my serenity is much more important than you constantly going, Yeah, but you don't understand! This is what happened this time! It's like, I know what happened last time! This is the same thing that happened last times! I'm Not in pain! You are! Okay, so there comes that time and this is why it's important to have a sponsor when you're working with other people too because then you go to your sponsor and say oh, this person called and your sponsor usually says something like well, why are you talking to me? You're like, well, because I have to and God and stuff and your spouse just drops it what's the matter with you? Look at you, you're crazy oh, yes, I know but you don't understand and you're like do I just say that? Because if there's that thing of like only an alcoholic can have another alcoholic Which is rubbish, as we know. Okay? But it becomes that ego-driven thing that we have. You know, that's so just... I can help them. I can! Don't you know who I am? Yes, you do. Right? So it's really hard to do that. And he says, you know, one of our fellowships held entirely with his first half dozen prospects, which was Bill. He often says that if he continued to work on them, he might have deprived many others who have since, oh, what's this word? Recovered of their chance. They've recovered. Isn't that cool? Now, check this out. I love this. This is what I love. I LOVE this book! It says, suppose you are making a second visit to a man. What? Second visit? You're on a second look? Oh, and look what he did. He's read this volume, and says he's prepared to go through with the twelve steps of the program of recovery. God, wouldn't that be nice? And here's another opposite opinion of what you hear in rooms about Voss Anonymous. It says, having had the experience yourself, you can give him much practical advice. I thought we don't give advice in AA. Well, it says right here we do. And then it also says, having had to experience yourself which means that you've gone through because it just said you're prepared to go through the 12 steps of the program. So if you haven't gone through the 12 Steps in the program. Shut up! Like, don't take people through anything. Maybe take them to a meeting, get them a cup of coffee and find them a sponsor who's been through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. But how many people do you see? You know what? I have 25 sponsees. What do you think? You got a football team? A baseball team? What are you doing? I don't even know how you have time to do that. Right? You know, because it becomes that, oh, they come with me and you see them show up to meetings They look like the penis gang, right? I'm like, oh, yeah, pig pens here. You know, yeah. He says, let him know you're available if he wishes to make a decision and tell his story. But do not insist upon it if he prefers to consult someone else. Don't buy that, man. You don't want to talk? Okay, fine, good. You don' t need to. I'm sure there may be somebody else out there who's pretty cool. No problem. Oh, and here's some more things. He may be broken homeless. If he is, you might try to help him about getting a job or give him a little financial assistance. But you should not deprive your family or creditors of money they should have. Right? I see people do that all the time. And I've heard people do it all the same. Right? Oh, you know, this great family needs to be an A&A. You need to go buy coffee. Well, I don't have any money. No, no, no. There's $10 I have to give to my kids because they're going to school. No, see? You got to put AA first. Well, no I am actually. Because AA says I need to repair my family and my home life and they need it more than people for coffee. Oh, so you just don't want to do what you're told. This is alien stories to people? Because I've heard them. And it just makes me crazy. It's not what we do. It's just not. Perhaps you will want to take the man into your home for a few days. But be sure to use discretion. Be certain he will be welcomed by your family and that he is not trying to impose on you for money, connections, or shelter. Permit that and you'll only harm him. You'll be making it possible for him to be insincere. You may be aiding in his destruction rather than in his recovery. Right? What's the adage? Catch a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and then you feed them for a lifetime. that's what we're doing here it's like feeding people for a lifetime here, here's the program become recovered, go help other people thanks, good luck, God bless, great, see you around not, oh you're good oh you don't want to be like you must want to drink you know my job working with other people is to get them to the point where they've outgrown me so they can those nine step promises came true in their life the ten step promises came true in their life. And if that's the case, what the hell do they need to keep coming to me for? Because they already intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle them. So they're not baffled anymore. Tim, should I wear red today? No, wear orange. Right? You know, to get to the point where they can dress themselves, right? And they can deal with life. And then be there. And now we're on the same level. Now we're all on equal ground. Now we are on... You know and you can say to them, you can give them hope by still doing it. I remember when I first started with you, two years ago you couldn't put a sentence together. Look at you now, you got a job. I've worked with a guy, he was unemployable, he had nothing going on in his life, right? And I've work with him, we went through the process of the steps and within two years he had a full-time... Now meanwhile this was a guy who can't get a job because he had felonies on his record, you know that kind of stuff. I can't work with your father. So I was like, shut up man. Why don't you go try doing this? Why don'T you stop being so damn selfish? You know, you love going to church, go ask the church if there's anything, go ask your father if he can do anything. So what happens? he does good with computers and he designs websites so he starts working on their website as a result of working on the website the guy says hey you're pretty good do you want a job he says sure part time because from part time to full time he got a girlfriend became his wife he has a full time job with a career he's a husband and a father of two and I'm a jerk off that's what happened I mean that's a true story we've recreated his life we said here, here it is look at that you're recovering that great, good luck God bless look what God did for you oh I don't want anything that you have what? okay good luck but see that's the beauty of it just being a small part of somebody's life I mean I didn't really do anything other than show him like in his apex you know school of sobriety and he took it went with him. How cool is that? That's miraculous. I definitely didn't do it on my own. I had support through that. I have God. I've had this program. I didn't teach him something. I just said, you know what we're going to do? We're going to go to a meeting every night and you're going get a coffee commitment and then at this other meeting you're gonna get a greeting commitment and then when you're ready you're gonna be a GSR and you can have the literature commitment. No! I taught him this. I said, this is how you use that. Here, this is... Oh, what are you having a problem with? Say your prayer. Go help somebody else. Because that's what we need to do, right? Yabba-yabba, yabba. That happens best in us. You know, because we're impatient people. We want everything yesterday, right. And it's just beautiful to be a part of that. To be a heart of of some... of a life being recreated, right。 You know because I told them the truth. and he didn't like me a lot you know what I mean like you people have heard me say this my hope is that I end up on everybody's fourth step that I work with because then I'm doing my job and I'm still waiting for the ninth step on this guy anyway but that's okay even if he doesn't I know the truth and it's okay God gives me the power to continue and go on alright so now 97 this is important, this is great stuff that Bill tells us he says never avoid these responsibilities but be sure when you are doing the right thing if you assume them helping others is the foundation stone of your recovery right so right there was really nice it cycles the whole process remember when we did step one and we knocked down that dilapidated house and we made this wonderful new foundation to build our hearts to build out house and we're free on the other side of it well helping others is part of that foundation stone so now oh look at that the whole progress is in a circle It's pretty cool, right? Does it kindly act once in a while or is it enough? You have to act a good Samaritan every day if need be. It may mean the loss of many nights sleep. Don't come to bed at night. Because we didn't do that when we were drunk. Great interference with your pleasures. Now that's my bowling night. Well, quit bowling, man. Interruptions to your business. I can't have that I need to make money meanwhile you couldn't work before right it may mean sharing your money and your home counseling frantic wives and relatives innumerable trips to police courts sanitariums, hospitals jails and asylums your telephone may jangle at any time of the day or night your wife may sometimes say she is neglected a drunk may smash the furniture in your home or burn a mattress I like to join the line there you may have to fight with him if he is violent I've done that I don't know if anybody else has done that 12 step calls I've fought with drunks because they want to fight thank God they're drunk because I definitely win sometimes you have to call a doctor, administer sedatives under his direction. Well, that's what they had to do back then. We don't do that anymore. I don't know how good or bad that is. We just don't. Some people may. They may have the proper licensure to do that sort of thing. Another time you may have to send for the police or an ambulance. That's right. We call the police on drums. Okay? Because that has nothing to do with public controversy. It has to do with safety. It has to do with making sure that you, your family, society is all safe. Yes, we love you, we want you to get well, but listen, if you're wielding a shotgun or a machete, the people who are duly ordained to take care of that are going to. Not me in my pillow. That's not happening. Occasionally, you will have to meet such conditions. We seldom allow an alcoholic to live in our homes for a long time. It is not good for him and it sometimes creates serious complications in the family now that's pretty ironic that Bill wrote that because that's what he did he lived with Dr. Bob and his wife for quite a while and it did cause complications inthe family so at least he learned from that or maybe Dr.Bob insisted on him writing that you better write that Bill so atleast it's there now here this is kind of cool though an alcoholic does not respond there is no reason why you should neglect his family I mean I see that all the time oh I can't talk to your husband drinking, can't talking to your wife drinking, nope nope they're drinking I don't want to be involved in that they may spill over to me and I may catch drunk you should continue to be friendly to them the family should be offering your way of life should they accept and practice spiritual principles, there is a much better chance that the head of the family will recover. And even though he continues to drink, the family would find life more bearable. Right? Now I know people, I've been a member of that fellowship for 13 years now, another fellowship. Okay, so I've experienced the other side of it in my own life I have. And it's important. I've watched people who's head of a household in that time, in 13 years, has still not quit drinking. But I've watched them recover. I've watch that person have an entirely new career and a new way of life and then as the result of the kid's version of it, right? I've watching that person grow into a young woman and a young adult and just flourish. I mean, like I heard this girl share after having been in that other one for years and I said, well, I want her to be my sponsor. I think that's how God-healthy she was. You know, she wasn't hung up on that stuff, you know, that family thing. She had our solution and was living that. That's miraculous. You know? That's got nothing to do with going to meetings. It has to do with this kind of stuff, right? But it continues. There's a type of alcoholic who is able and willing to get well. That's right. Because we can and that's what it requires. Are we able to? Yep. Are we willing to? Yep. So now we can get well. Little charity in the ordinary sense of the word is needed or wanted. I mean, I know for me, I'm like that. Can I get you a cup of coffee? No. Oh, just coffee. Because when I was drinking, I had this mindset of everyone owed me. Poor me. Don't you know? Okay, so when I got well When I got sober and I recovered It became a thing of You know what? God has given me enough health God has gave me a good enough mind God has made me able to work And I'll try as much as I can Sometimes they may need it But then I have my financial meds And I do that And I pay people back Because that's the example I want them to have Of alcoholics in office Yeah, he's going through a hard time yeah you know what it's a loan pay me back which one you know and I've talked about this through the immense process people pay you know they lend me money and I pay them back and I give them interest on it but then I'm like I know you didn't but I still give it to you because that's the right thing to do so this is the type of you know I don't I'm not like oh you know I always love when people say you got an extra cigarette I'm going to tell you I'm just like yes every one I have is extra I don't come with cigarettes you'll get that later alright it says the men who cry for money and shelter before conquering alcohol are on the wrong track ah, conquering sounds like they overcame it sounds like their recovery can't do that in AA yet we do yet we do go to great extremes to provide each other with these very things when such action is warranted this may seem inconsistent, but we think it is not. You know, I don't know about anybody else. I've gotten plenty of jobs through people that I've known in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. They've sent me a, oh, I know this guy and they know that guy. You know? This is one of the, like, forget Angie's list. You know what I mean? Like, you need a plumber? Come to AA, you know? An electrician? Come to AAA. You'll know who, like the best people are doing the work and who not to call. Oh yeah, he took half the money. He's like, I still got an empty bathroom. I know. don't call me. Now here's what Bill says about it. He says, it's not a matter of giving that is in question, but when and how to give. That often makes the difference between failure and success. The minute we put our work on a service plane, now this is really important right here, the alcoholic commences to rely upon our systems rather upon God. Okay? So what Bill is saying is that, go back to that pertinent idea, letter B, that probably no human power could leave our alcoholism. So don't be relying on the group. Grip of drugs. Good old Sebastian. You people. Not going to work. That's a service plane. You people serve me. I talk about it all the time. What's my analogy with the gym? Right? Oh, I paid my membership. I'm in my sweat jacket. I came to the gym. Get me thin. We can't do that here either, right? He clamors for this or that, claiming he cannot master alcohol. Master alcohol? Who can do that? We can. Until his material needs are cared for. Remember I talked about this, I love the little one word thing, nonsense. Some of us have taken very hard knocks to learn this truth, colon, Job or no job Wife or no wife We simply do not stop drinking As long as we place dependence upon other people Ahead of dependence upon God That's twice One paragraph, twice you said the same thing God, not people God, Not People Oh This is pretty big right here This is the antithesis Of you need meetings to stay sober It says burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he could get well, regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trusts in God and a clean house. It doesn't say that he don't drink and go to meetings. Trust in God, clean house, that's it. That's the condition that anybody can get sober on, and that's what this whole book is about, and I've been ranting about for 18 weeks already. Now the domestic problem, colon. Very cute, I think that was. There may be divorce, separation, or just strained relations. When your prospect has made such reparation as he can with his family and has thoroughly explained to them the new principles by which he is living, he should proceed to put those principles into action at home. That is, if he is lucky enough to have a home. Though his family be at fault in many respects, he shall not be concerned about that. He shall concentrate on his own spiritual demonstration. Argument and fault-finding are to be avoided like the plague. In many homes, this is difficult to do, but it must be done if any results are to be expected. Must. Lots of them in the book. Must If persisted in for a few months, the effect on a man's family is sure to be great The most incompatible people discover that they have a basis upon which they can meet. Little by little, the family may see their own defects and admit them. They can then be discussed in an atmosphere of helpfulness and friendliness. You know why I drink? Because you nag me all the time! Well, that's because you're a campanile. Oh my god, right? After they have seen tangible results, the family will perhaps want to go along. These things will come to pass naturally and in good time provided. However, the alcoholic continues to demonstrate that he can be sober, considerate and helpful regardless of what anyone says or does. Of course, we all fall much below this standard many times but we must try to repair the damage immediately lest we pay the penalty by a spree. If there be divorce or separation there should be no undue haste for the couple to get together. I've seen that one. Oh, we're going to love each other again. Oh, no, we don't. The man should be sure of his recovery. The wife should fully understand his new way of life. Obviously, that goes for the opposite genders. The wife should fully understand his new way of living. If their old relationship is to be resumed, it must be on a better basis, since the former did not work. This means a new attitude and spirit all around. Sometimes it is to the best interest of all concerned that a couple remain apart. And here's Alcoholics Anonymous' opinion on that. Obviously, no rule can be laid down. Let the alcoholic continue his program day by day. When the time for living together has come, it will be apparent to both parties. Now, obviously, more of my experience has been with wives allowing men to come back. But I have had the experience of, you know, husbands letting wives come back. And that usually happens a lot quicker, you Know, because it becomes this thing of like, You know, people clean up and they smell better and they look better, You know. And that gets us excited, You Know. It reminds us of when we were first with them. Oh, that's the person. Right? And then you're like, wait a minute, but you're not the person." And, you know, that other program or sister program that doesn't get talked about a lot. You know, anytime I work with somebody who is in a relationship who is connected to anybody on any level, whether it be girlfriend, boyfriend, spouse, fiancé, living and sitting together, you knows, whatever it is, whomever that person is connected too, you know obviously I always talk to them because that's what the instructions are because I want to find out what they're doing and I also let them know, listen, if you want this to work, you need to go there. You need to go there, I'm not the one with the problem yes you are you have a bigger problem than they do how dare you, no you love this person you want to be with them, then you need to trust that this is going to help you both and it's going to be the best thing for both of you and you're going to being amazed and you'll be dancing again, remember when he took you out to dance, oh yeah I loved it, well maybe he might again, but you need change too because you're part of the problem, no I'm not? Yes, you are. Okay, because that thing, you know, they're not the afflicted, right? So it's not as good of danger as in this clear and present. They're dying slowly. Right? Whereas the afflicteds are dying today. And a lot of times it becomes that enabling thing. Well, let's think of this. Let's think about that. You go to a meeting, right? That goes on. So we need to make sure that as people who are responsibly working with other people that we don't forget the family dynamic because that's part of an individual's recovery as well. Now here, this is important too. He says it again. Let no alcoholic say he cannot recover unless he has his family back. This just isn't so. In some cases, the wife will never come back from one reason or another. He's going to say it again, you ready? remind the prospect that his recovery is not dependent upon people it is dependent upon his relationship with God. That's quite plain. It's not dependent on how many meetings you go to a week or if you have a service commitment it's dependent upon your relationship with God now if God is the coffee pot then maybe he might depend on it okay we have seen men get well whose families have not returned at all we've seen others slip when the family came back too soon pretty clear, eh? now here's the crux of sponsoring right here it's when both you and the new man must walk day by day in the path of spiritual progress you and then not the new men don't you be taking my inventory well why not they may say something that's reflective oh yeah maybe I should pay attention to that There's obviously limits to that too And here's this, I love this It says if you persist Remarkable things will happen We're about to get some promises again When we look back We realize that the things which came to us When we put ourselves in God's hands Were better than anything we could have planned I know that's true in my life You know that You know it's true In my life I've told you story after story You've experienced it with me right? it's so cool this is great, this is directions here follow the dictates of a higher power not your sponsor not your spouse even though sometimes they're your higher power it says and you will presently live in a new and wonderful world no matter what your present circumstances that's a pretty cool promise that's so awesome right? when working with a man in this family, you should take care not to participate in their quarrels. You may spoil your chance of being helpful if you do, but urge upon a man's family that he has been a very sick person and should be treated accordingly. You should warn against arousing resentment or jealousy. You should point out that his defects of character are not going to disappear overnight. Show them that he is entered upon a period of growth. Ask them to remember when they are impatient the blessed fact of his sobriety. at least he's not drunk. And some of them say, I like him better than. And he probably liked her better than too. Okay. If you have been successful in solving your own domestic problems, tell the newcomer's family how that was accomplished. In this way, you can set them on the right track without becoming critical of them. The story of how you and your wife settled your difficulties is worth any amount of criticism. Now, there's a couple that does that. They use the 12 traditions in their relationship. They go around and they tour and they do that. And I just love it. I think it's so cool to take that and put that into practice, right? Because I love hearing about that. Oh, and here, I love these. You ready? We're going to get into some controversial stuff. How much time do we have? It doesn't matter. This is assuming we are spiritually fit. We can do all sorts of things alcohols are not supposed to. Not supposed to! People have said we must not go where liquor is served. Well, that's earth. Okay? We must not have it in our homes. We must shun friends who drink. We must avoid moving pictures which show drinking seats. We must não ir em bar. Our friends must hide their bottles if they go to their homes. We mustn't think or be reminded about alcohol at all. Our experience shows that this is not necessarily so. We meet these conditions every day. Here it is. I love this. It says, an alcoholic who cannot meet them still has an alcoholic mind. There is something the matter with his spiritual status. Not with his behavior or his thinking. His spiritual status God's not in there. His only chance for sobriety would be someplace like the Greenland Ice Cap, and even there an Eskimo might turn up with a bottle of scotch and ruin everything. Here's one of the arguments against change people, places, and things. Ask any woman who has sent her husband to distant places on the theory that he would escape the alcohol problem. I would send him over there because they don't have alcohol over there. Where was that? Jupiter? Okay. Now here, this is Alcohol Synonymous' opinion about this stuff. In our belief, that's how I know it's their opinion, it says any scheme of combating alcoholism which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed to failure. If the alcoholic tries to shield himself, he may succeed for a time, but he usually winds up with a bigger explosion than ever. We have tried these methods. these attempts to do the impossible have always failed and why are they impossible? because we're trying on our own power we need to have God's power God takes away all of that not hiding it I love that usually the Bermuda Triangle of holidays Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years people always say I don't want to go to their house because they serve alcohol they serve alcoholic and then they get drunk but go to the house I'm like why go that far? don't you have a bar down the corner? go there and get drunk. Because obviously there's something wrong with your spiritual status, so now you're going to blame your mother-in-law's house because she's the one serving rum. Okay? No, we need to do this stuff, right? So here, here's what he says. He says, so our rule, I thought there's no rules in AA. Our rule is to avoid a place where there is drinking, not to avoid the place, excuse me, not to avoiding the place if there is drink. And then there's a caveat. It says, if we have a legitimate reason for being there. Well, what's a legitimate reason? We'll get to that. Okay? Then he says, well, that includes bars, nightclubs, dances, receptions, weddings, and my favorite, even plain and ordinary whoopee parties. Whoopee! Alright. To a person who has had experience with an alcoholic, this may seem like tempting providence, but it isn't. you will note that we made an important qualification therefore ask yourself on each occasion have I any good social business or personal reason for going to this place or am I expecting to steal a little vicarious pleasure from the atmosphere of such places if you answer these questions satisfactorily you need have no apprehension go or stay away whichever seems best here's a warning But be sure you are on solid spiritual ground Before you start And that your motive in going Is thoroughly good Do not think of what you will get out of the occasion Think of what he can bring to it Other than a case of beer But if you are shaky You had better work with another alcoholic instead Why sit with a long face And face is it Where there's drinking Sighing over the good old days if it is a happy occasion try to increase the pleasure of those there if a business occasion go and attend to your business enthusiastically if you are with a person who wants to eat in the bar by all means go along let your friends know they are not to change their habits on your account at the proper time and place explain to all your friends why alcohol disagrees with you if you do this thoroughly people will ask you few people will ask you to drink some of them say and you shouldn't have won? Because I did. While you were drinking, you were withdrawing from life little by little. Now you're getting back into the socialized life of this world. Don't start to withdraw again just because your friends drink liquor. Okay? Just go out and live your life. It doesn't matter. You know, looking and seeing... When it's in there, it has no power. It's when it goes in here that it has power. And the only way to stop this from going in there is your higher power. That's what he says. So why am I going to... The drinking wasn't the problem. The bar wasn't a problem. I was the problem, right? Here it is. He says, Your job now is to be at the place where you can be of maximum helpfulness to others. I thought it was a selfish program. So never hesitate to go anywhere if you can Be Helpful. you should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such an errand, you know like a jail keep on the firing line of life with these motives and God will keep you unharmed that's pretty powerful many of us keep liquor in our homes we often need it to carry green recruits through a severe hangover some of us will serve it to our friends provided they are not alcoholics some of use think we should not serve liquor to anyone we never argue this question we never argue this question we feel that each family in the light of their own circumstances ought to decide for themselves my family, we usually have great 4th of July parties, but I can tell you if you are the sight of people drinking or the thought of people drink don't come to my family's house because they all drink and they all look at me like aren't you drinking? I'm like there's not enough here because it just doesn't bother me. I have had an entire psyche change about it. We are careful never to show intolerance or hatred of drinking as an institution. Experience shows that such an attitude is not helpful to anyone. Every new alcoholic looks for this spirit among us and is immensely relieved when he finds something. Which for us? A spirit of intolerance might repel alcoholics whose lives could have been saved had it not been for such stupidity. Stupid to do that, right? We would not even see the cause of temperate drinking any good for not one drinker in a thousand likes to be told anything about alcohol by one who hates it. Right? I know that. I'm an ex-smoker. People come and shut up when I tell them about smoking because I'm one of those people. I'm intolerant of smoking. So, it doesn't really help. They're not going to stop me because they said, you know, that's bad for you. someday we hope that Alcoholics Anonymous will help the public to a better realization of the gravity of the alcoholic problem, but we shall be of little use if our attitude is one of bitterness and hostility drinkers will not stand for it and here we go, Italis and he closes the chapter with this after all, our problems were of our own making bottles were only a symbol Besides, we have stopped fighting anybody or anything. We have to. So that's how we work with other alcoholics. So, we've been through the entire process of the 12 steps now from beginning to end, exhaustively. Next week I have some things that I'm going to leave like little bombs and mortar shells through the rest of the month that I think are important to note for my final week here. You know, for those of you who have been bearing with me I really appreciate it and hopefully you've learned something of this book and you know my most humble desire is that somebody's life has been changed as a result of this and so like I said I'll be here next week to present the chapter to Lawrence and the family afterward and the employer which really goes with this last chapter we just did it's really cool and some things from the visit for you and some stories little things that I think are important so thank you for being here.